Dedicated Manufacturer Sub-Forums Sponsored by Manufacturers

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
11,360
6,643
1,365
Beverly Hills, CA
Dear Members:

We apologize for not informing members in advance that dedicated manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers are treated differently than are all other forums on WBF.

Dedicated manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers are intended to enable manufacturers to communicate directly with, and to mingle directly with, their clients and prospective clients. Such sub-forums are not general purpose and general discussion opportunities to engage manufacturers and designers with the usual questions and criticisms, slings and arrows, we all enjoy firing everywhere else on WBF.

We apologize for the consternation and frustration which our failure to explain in advance this concept of manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers has recently caused.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RCanelas

rando

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2019
1,417
1,059
230
@Ron Resnick , in any part do you feel blame can partially be attributed to treating sponsored posts and sponsored forum content in the same manner as all other discussions across the range of new content feeds?

Do you have any intent to revisit whether these posts should be promoted alongside other posts or left to be found by those actively seeking them out?



I have mistakenly fallen astray of replying in a manner that wandered into off content mention of other brands by following up on a new post on the "Latest Activity" feed. A fact I was unaware of until it was gently stated where on the forum the discussion was taking place. At which point I amended or erased my contributions a bit shamefacedly. Though the line between naming conventions used on this discussion and ones taking place on the larger forum every day were thin as it gets. It was my mistake.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheMooN and tima

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
11,360
6,643
1,365
Beverly Hills, CA
@Ron Resnick , in any part do you feel blame can partially be attributed to treating sponsored posts and sponsored forum content in the same manner as all other discussions across the range of new content feeds?

Do you have any intent to revisit whether these posts should be promoted alongside other posts or left to be found by those actively seeking them out?

Thank you for your comments. I don’t know what you mean by “sponsored post.”
 

rando

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2019
1,417
1,059
230
Thank you for your comments. I don’t know what you mean by “sponsored post.”

Posts made under official accounts you recognize as being associated with the sponsored forum in which they are occurring. If that is not too simplistic for casual discussion on handling of the entire collection of sponsor forums you host in a separate area.

Edit: I would like to clarify my larger point was handling of all posts/albums/etc newly added by any member to a sponsored forum. The description "sponsored post" has a direct meaning I feel was correctly answered to above.
 
Last edited:

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
4,537
4,998
945
the Upper Midwest
Since they are indiscriminately mingled with normal postings, posts or messages in or from an advertising/sponsored forum clearly should be identified as such. How will you identify them?

Presumably these advertisers/sponsors freely can be discussed outside their protected enclaves. Is that correct?
 

Salectric

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
150
182
348
I didn't even know there were "dedicated manufacturer sub-forums." Now that I do know, I suggest they be segregated from other forum posts rather than mixed in with all the others. In particular they should not appear in the "Latest Activity" list or, at a minimum, if they are included there should be some sort of identification to inform non-believers to steer clear.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
5,775
1,287
400
Eastern WA
I always assumed they are mods of their own subforum and run it how they want. Seems normal.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
11,027
7,431
1,560
this is just not right.

if the rules are different then (1) keep them away from the 'new post' and 'latest activity' feeds, and (2) consider having those forums invitation only. they can't get the exposure they seek without them earning the respect each other member must earn.

any new member has to be accepted by the other members as a practical matter. like any community. that reality is what helps us to get along. yes, i do realize that the only actual rules are the TOS. but forum owners siding with manufacturers over regular members is a non starter.

if someone can 'buy' their way in with special privileges, then this is not the forum for me to hang out in. not what i signed up for. and if this is the direction WBF is going.........
 
Last edited:

Carlos269

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2012
577
574
405
Ron, you and Steve have begun the process of destroying the whatsbestforum and dismantling all that you have accomplished by chasing the profit associated with advertisers at the expense of key forum members and their contributions.

Since you and Steve saw to it fit to deleting my post on the Feeltwood thread, don’t stop there……please delete all of my content throughout the forum and erase my contributions. Audiophile Bill and I will not be the only ones to bail and quit this new vendors-advertisements excuse for a forum. Another fine example of a good thing being derailed by greed.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
4,537
4,998
945
the Upper Midwest
they can't get the exposure they seek without them earning the respect each other member must earn.

any new member has to be accepted by the other members as a practical matter.

Mike, granted.

But, perhaps they are not 'members' in the sense that you and I and the rest of the hoi polloi are members. They are advertiser sponsors who are simply buying what is for sale. If you pay for your own sponsor forum, would you not want it a peaceful place where you can conduct your advertising in a happy way under a protective bubble, secure in the knowledge that the realities of critique will not intrude? Would you pay for that type of advertising? Obviously some will and the fact that they do so tells it's own story about them. It is only inequitable if we confuse forum membership with sponsorship. It is only confusing if we think we are under the same conditions within a sponsor sub-forum as without.

A problem arises only when a sponsor wants to think of themselves as a member or vice versa. The different sets of rules separates the groups. Thus it is important that WBF make it obvious which postings come from the sponsor sub-forums. I don't know if that helps your thinking on this or if I am missing the boat -- I wrote this off-the-cuff.
.
 

dcathro

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
360
388
168
Melbourne, Australia
Dear Members:

We apologize for not informing members in advance that dedicated manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers are treated differently than are all other forums on WBF.

Dedicated manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers are intended to enable manufacturers to communicate directly with, and to mingle directly with, their clients and prospective clients. Such sub-forums are not general purpose and general discussion opportunities to engage manufacturers and designers with the usual questions and criticisms, slings and arrows, we all enjoy firing everywhere else on WBF.

We apologize for the consternation and frustration which our failure to explain in advance this concept of manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers has recently caused.

Ron,

Has someone apologized to Bill? He walked right into a Bear trap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: the sound of Tao

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
11,027
7,431
1,560
Mike, granted.

But, perhaps they are not 'members' in the sense that you and I and the rest of the hoi polloi are members. They are advertiser sponsors who are simply buying what is for sale.
no problem with commerce, as long as it does not upset the responsibility and equality of every poster. no one has 'more' rights or discretion than another, based on commerce. they pay to openly advertise, but it should not come with more rights.
If you pay for your own sponsor forum, would you not want it a peaceful place where you can conduct your advertising in a happy way under a protective bubble, secure in the knowledge that the realities of critique will not intrude? Would you pay for that type of advertising? Obviously some will and the fact that they do so tells it's own story about them.
if they want a 'peaceful' sub forum where they rule the roost, then that activity should be separate from the general forum. if they want the exposure to the general forum in posting, then that activity has to be on level ground with all members. forum owners and mods have to be neutral.
It is only inequitable if we confuse forum membership with sponsorship. It is only confusing if we think we are under the same conditions within a sponsor sub-forum as without.

A problem arises only when a sponsor wants to think of themselves as a member or vice versa. The different sets of rules separates the groups. Thus it is important that WBF make it obvious which postings come from the sponsor sub-forums. I don't know if that helps your thinking on this or if I am missing the boat -- I wrote this off-the-cuff.
rules should pertain to parts of the forum, not posters. and the advertising forum posts should not be intermingled in terms of view and access.
 

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
3,054
3,713
675
Mike, granted.

But, perhaps they are not 'members' in the sense that you and I and the rest of the hoi polloi are members. They are advertiser sponsors who are simply buying what is for sale. If you pay for your own sponsor forum, would you not want it a peaceful place where you can conduct your advertising in a happy way under a protective bubble, secure in the knowledge that the realities of critique will not intrude? Would you pay for that type of advertising? Obviously some will and the fact that they do so tells it's own story about them. It is only inequitable if we confuse forum membership with sponsorship. It is only confusing if we think we are under the same conditions within a sponsor sub-forum as without.

A problem arises only when a sponsor wants to think of themselves as a member or vice versa. The different sets of rules separates the groups. Thus it is important that WBF make it obvious which postings come from the sponsor sub-forums. I don't know if that helps your thinking on this or if I am missing the boat -- I wrote this off-the-cuff.
.
Maybe their posts should be in gold.
 

rando

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2019
1,417
1,059
230
I thought it would be salient to note how long the WBF business forum section - Trade shows are a business too - has been in place without drawing much notice.

Then I found this. Which I'm recreating for those as unaware as I was. Hard to believe this might pass without notice one way or the other.

1664234525680.png
 

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
3,054
3,713
675
Ron,

Has someone apologized to Bill? He walked right into a Bear trap.
From what I saw Bill was being respectful and inquisitive and genuine.

Bill is a craftsman and someone who sets the highest standards for himself. Being called a DIY troll then after feeling the need to leave here after a great history of consistent and valuable high quality contributions and active sharing in the forum is not any of these things. It is an indicator of two very different kinds of people at work. Perhaps if we were all aware of the difference in intention in these subforums he’d not have even bothered.
 
Last edited:

Salectric

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
150
182
348
Anyone who followed the old Oswald Mill blog could have predicted the chain of events on the Fleetwood thread. The train wreck just happened a bit sooner than I expected.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
19,569
3,659
910
Portugal
Dear Members:

We apologize for not informing members in advance that dedicated manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers are treated differently than are all other forums on WBF.

Dedicated manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers are intended to enable manufacturers to communicate directly with, and to mingle directly with, their clients and prospective clients. Such sub-forums are not general purpose and general discussion opportunities to engage manufacturers and designers with the usual questions and criticisms, slings and arrows, we all enjoy firing everywhere else on WBF.

We apologize for the consternation and frustration which our failure to explain in advance this concept of manufacturer sub-forums sponsored by manufacturers has recently caused.

Ron,
I really do not understand your post. Are these threads an exception to the WBF TOS and only accessible to selected members?
 

pjwd

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2015
306
168
173
Brisbane
Presumably these advertisers/sponsors freely can be discussed outside their protected enclaves. Is that correct?
That the nub of it
As I understand it..
If mofi had a forum common folk could not point out that there was a digital step in their process but you could start a thread under a heading like " are mofi crooks" and the biffo would occur there ( and probably bury the sponsored thread)

Not much difference ..
 

Carlos269

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2012
577
574
405
That the nub of it
As I understand it..
If mofi had a forum common folk could not point out that there was a digital step in their process but you could start a thread under a heading like " are mofi crooks" and the biffo would occur there ( and probably bury the sponsored thread)

Not much difference ..
If that was the case, all the deleted posts would have been transferred to a dedicated thread outside of the manufacturer’s sub-forum, but they were not, which proves that Ron and Steve have chosen to shield the advertisers and regulate the forum beyond the TOS.

What they will soon find out is that the forum’s only real assets are it’s members. It is the members and their contributions that attracts others to join & visit the site, and it is this traffic that is the interest and brings the manufacturers, dealers and their advertising dollars: but conversely when key members and their contributions leave and go elsewhere…..it ALL dries up. As they say, don’t bite the hand that feeds you! This should be obvious and a great opportunity for others.
 
Last edited:

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing