Dedicated Manufacturer Sub-Forums Sponsored by Manufacturers

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
19,580
3,665
910
Portugal
Have you read a single word that beau has even posted. I doubt it. As usual you continue to drift so a reply to you is meaningless. Read beau's posts and have a little faith Francisco. You're just being your usual self

It is not a question of faith, Steve or a personnel issue with you. It is a question of forum principles. You are free to change them anytime and I respect it, do not expect everyone to behave the same way. I can't accept sponsors moderating with "velvet fist".

I feel sorry about the great people from the industry who enthusiastically participated in this forum for years without using "velvet fists", particularly DaveyF and the Taiko Audio people, but I will not not debate audio in such a bipolar forum. I will read it in the same way I read audio magazines - information and entertainment.
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments.

We can debate how to characterize the addition of a new type of sub-forum — “Manufacturer Sponsored Dedicated User Groups.” This new type of sponsored sub-forum will be moderated by the sponsor of the sub-forum. I do not characterize this addition as a change of forum principles. Nothing in WBF outside of this new type of sub-forum — which did not exist until this week — is changing.

“Manufacturer Sponsored Dedicated User Groups” is clearly delineated on the column of sub-forums as a separate category.

Any member who wishes not to post in a Manufacturer Sponsored Dedicated User Groups because such a sub-forum is moderated by the sponsor of such sub-forum should feel free not to post in such sub-forum. All of the rest of WBF continues unchanged.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve, what you said was that these posts will "be in it's own category".

looking at the 'new post' and 'latest activity' feeds, there is nothing to differentiate these posts.

and then going to this 'Manufacturer Sponsored User Group forums", again, only in the title up at the thread top does it say this. clicking on a post in feeds half the time you don't even see that. and nowhere does it mention the moderation difference.

not obvious these posts are "in it's own category".

my question is will this be how it is? i'm assuming this is the plan, and if you confirm that; trust me i will not go here again. i wanted to make sure i was not missing something. a single word 'yes' is perfectly fine.

i apologize profusely if you have already answered this question with the specifics of my question.
First...re moderators it is in fact mentioned Mike


As to the separation of the latest activity that was also discussed and to the best of my knowledge I would say there's no way to differentiate but we are looking into it.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
11,031
7,442
1,560
First...re moderators it is in fact mentioned Mike


As to the separation of the latest activity that was also discussed and to the best of my knowledge I would say there's no way to differentiate but we are looking into it.
thank you Steve. you have answered my question. i'm more clear on what is and what is not.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
First...re moderators it is in fact mentioned Mike


As to the separation of the latest activity that was also discussed and to the best of my knowledge I would say there's no way to differentiate but we are looking into it.
One last thing I forgot to answer, Mike. As to how one can differentiate the posts of this user group from the latest activity feed, is that ALL members of the user group share the same logo which is easily discernible and easy to ignore....

Fleetwood Audio Users' Group.jpg.gif


Finally we are a membership of almost 30,000 whereas the membership of this user group so far is about 30. I say this to try and put this whole issue in perspective
 

Tam Lin

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2011
81
18
393
North Texas
One last thing I forgot to answer, Mike. As to how one can differentiate the posts of this user group from the latest activity feed, is that ALL members of the user group share the same logo which is easily discernible and easy to ignore....

View attachment 98486


Finally we are a membership of almost 30,000 whereas the membership of this user group so far is about 30. I say this to try and put this whole issue in perspective
But this is only the first of many sponsored forums to come.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
11,031
7,442
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But this is only the first of many sponsored forums to come.
and likely in a short period of time a significant percentage of posters on those forums will not be those from the original 30 (otherwise why pay for a forum to use) and so the relevance of that differentiation will be close to zero. and those original 30 will post in other forums....so using that to 'know' will be a source of confusion.

can't see how that particular approach will have the desired effect. which does not mean these forums won't work out in the long run anyway.

at this point we need a little faith.
 
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dcathro

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
361
390
168
Melbourne, Australia
Reading through the latest in this thread gave me a headacheo_O

I personally don't have a problem with threads that are moderated differently or are mainly for fanboys - with a little care I can either ignore or post respectfully in their playground. But That is just me, I try and avoid upsetting other people anyway - life is too short to go looking for arguments.

The only thing that has upset me is losing Bill :(.
 
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Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
1,618
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I don't really see the big deal. I have wanted a Pure Audio Project thread. I have had a lot of crossover, cable and setup questions over the years.

What I wish the forum had was a table of content for some of the threads. And a way to group subject information. I'm sure it would be a big help with the Taiko and Lampizator threads. Others too, like Wilson speaker setup. Once they run over 4 or 5 pages, its a chore to work through it all if its something new to you. And some are in the hundreds. Lots of good information that is lost and buried. Possibly, a sponsored thread of interest to someone will have an active participant building out a content list. I just laughed a little as I typed that.
 
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beaur

Fleetwood Sound
Oct 12, 2011
384
86
415
59
Brooklyn
I don't really see the big deal. I have wanted a Pure Audio Project thread. I have had a lot of crossover, cable and setup questions over the years.

What I wish the forum had was a table of content for some of the threads. And a way to group subject information. I'm sure it would be a big help with the Taiko and Lampizator threads. Others too, like Wilson speaker setup. Once they run over 4 or 5 pages, its a chore to work through it all if its something new to you. And some are in the hundreds. Lots of good information that is lost and buried. Possibly, a sponsored thread of interest to someone will have an active participant building out a content list. I just laughed a little as I typed that.
You are speaking my language. I know Steve and Ron have little control over the software but 200 page threads are very annoying to go through if you don't visit daily.

I have been thinking about building an index or something similar, especially with Q/A that can get buried in a thread that has no relation to the information you are looking for.

I get why it's not done though, as the smaller companies that would benefit don't have the staff necessary to put in the time and effort it would take to do it correctly.

Beau
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
11,031
7,442
1,560
just fyi, i'm a total non techie baby boomer who can hardly type, yet i find the WBF search function works quite well if you know the right keywords, and can spell (another of my weaknesses) correctly. at least 90% of the time i find what i'm looking for. but if indexes existed without any trade-offs in use in other spots hard to argue with that. not sure they would surpass the search function in result.
 

beaur

Fleetwood Sound
Oct 12, 2011
384
86
415
59
Brooklyn
Mike, all true, but I am thinking a little differently. I'll use the Taiko thread as an example. It's currently 628 pages in length. Let's say I'm on the fence about what streamer to get, and someone points me to the Taiko thread. If I don't have time to go through the thread, how do I search for any info that will give me an idea of what people feel about it? How it works with xxx components? Lots of the keywords are going to be repeated on all pages, posts, and even quoted replies, so it's not going to narrow your options all that much. What I am thinking of is having someone extract the informative posts from the thread and essentially making a "sticky" thread without all the "conversation" that takes place in a thread that long. Still working out how to easily do it and it's only necessary if there's enough information to extract from thread.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
11,031
7,442
1,560
Mike, all true, but I am thinking a little differently. I'll use the Taiko thread as an example. It's currently 628 pages in length. Let's say I'm on the fence about what streamer to get, and someone points me to the Taiko thread. If I don't have time to go through the thread, how do I search for any info that will give me an idea of what people feel about it? How it works with xxx components? Lots of the keywords are going to be repeated on all pages, posts, and even quoted replies, so it's not going to narrow your options all that much. What I am thinking of is having someone extract the informative posts from the thread and essentially making a "sticky" thread without all the "conversation" that takes place in a thread that long. Still working out how to easily do it and it's only necessary if there's enough information to extract from thread.
the Taiko thread has 12,550 posts and been going strong since 2/19, close to 4 years. i don't even want to speculate that it will ever end. other than the 'sports' thread which, lets just say to be kind, is not relevant to any index or searching discussion, the Taiko thread is a huge outlier. it's like it's own continent and has it's own weather impervious to forum directions.

so if you are going to make a case forum wide, it's not typical. i do see your point and see the benefit though.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
19,580
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Portugal
(...) All of the rest of WBF continues unchanged.

No Ron, it does not continue. You can't have a forum where part of it is free, just moderated according to a trusty TOS and the other part is subject to censorship.

BTW, we are senior audiophiles, not audio forum guinea-pigs for experiments.
 
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beaur

Fleetwood Sound
Oct 12, 2011
384
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No Ron, it does not continue. You can't have a forum where part of it is free, just moderated according to a trusty TOS and the other part is subject to censorship.

BTW, we are senior audiophiles, not audio forum guinea-pigs for experiments.
Unless I am mistaken, in my moderating duties, I still must abide by the site TOS. Maybe this is all semantics and could have been worded better. I realize this is a bit self-serving but would you have batted an eye if the owners had appointed me as a moderator without disclosing any of these details?

It's in Fleetwood's best interest not to go off on a censorship binge as we are trying to generate discussion around our products. I only plan to intercede when matters become personal and hopefully, I can keep my all-seeing eye smack in the middle.

Beau
 
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microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
19,580
3,665
910
Portugal
Mike, all true, but I am thinking a little differently. I'll use the Taiko thread as an example. It's currently 628 pages in length. Let's say I'm on the fence about what streamer to get, and someone points me to the Taiko thread. If I don't have time to go through the thread, how do I search for any info that will give me an idea of what people feel about it? How it works with xxx components? Lots of the keywords are going to be repeated on all pages, posts, and even quoted replies, so it's not going to narrow your options all that much. What I am thinking of is having someone extract the informative posts from the thread and essentially making a "sticky" thread without all the "conversation" that takes place in a thread that long. Still working out how to easily do it and it's only necessary if there's enough information to extract from thread.

The Taiko thread is an excellent example of the success of freedom of opinion and debate. It seems we have different perspective on the main objective of this forum. We want or wanted, maybe, to have knowledgeable audiophiles that would understand the reason of their choices with the help of manufacturers and a followup of their products, not recipe books about what to do. Surely this needs time and experience with this forum, and Emile gave us long explanations about his objectives. He never needed deleting posts.
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
1,260
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720
Unless I am mistaken, in my moderating duties, I still must abide by the site TOS. Maybe this is all semantics and could have been worded better. I realize this is a bit self-serving but would you have batted an eye if the owners had appointed me as a moderator without disclosing any of these details?

It's in Fleetwood's best interest not to go off on a censorship binge as we are trying to generate discussion around our products. I only plan to intercede when matters become personal and hopefully, I can keep my all-seeing eye smack in the middle.

Beau
Might be best if u stop posting for a good bit of time.
Your continued interjection and statements of your moderator intent just keeps picking at those who are really against/skeptical of this whole Manufacturer Forum deal....... (The best moderators are the ones who u never know)
 

TheMooN

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2013
1,380
751
370
N/A
Simple answer mr. moon, you have a habit of butting in and trolling threads! We never had any exchanges on this forum but you thought you had the right to jump in and troll me in exchanges with others. I ignored you because you don't matter. You did the same thing in the Fleetwood forum and they flung you out like a pesky fly. Now you're crying here so I'm answering your question, you're a Troll!

david
LMAO … So in your ridiculous little self importance you construe a number of ‘Likes’ that I have given on posts that just happen not to pander to your world view as “trolling” you … Really ! Do try not to flatter yourself so much.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
6,195
3,807
930
Utah
LMAO … So in your ridiculous little self importance you construe a number of ‘Likes’ that I have given on posts that just happen not to pander to your world view as “trolling” you … Really ! Do try not to flatter yourself so much.
I was referring to your posts with direct quotes of mine which had nothing to do with you. I’m not the one calling myself themoon, and demanding conformity from strangers in threads unrelated to you, ridiculous self importance pretty much is your moto!

david
 

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