Difference in violins

[Gregadd]

You will need quality headphones with a quality dac. If someone has a pair of Stax electrostatics I'd be interested in your opinion.

---

 

[Gregadd]

$1000 vs $10,000,000 Violin - Bing video

 

[Mikem53]

Very interesting.. I just used my iPad Pro to listen, but when the one guy played the high dollar violin and his chin robbed the tone, it was quite noticeable.. Otherwise, I’m not hearing too much difference. Except everything the 10 million dollar guy played, everything sounded good !
Cool vid.. thanks..

 

[Gregadd]

What I liked most is they were trying to hear a difference.
There was an obvious difference to me. I think the difference was a much more vibrant sound to $10 million dollar violin. I wish i coulld hear them in an unamplified music hall. I wish they had played some longer selections.
I remember it was I who posted a video suggesting musicians could not discern the the differences between a modern violin and a vintage one I never trusted it.

 

[Mikem53]

What I liked most is they were trying to hear a difference.
There was an obvious difference to me. I think the difference was a much more vibrant sound to $10 million dollar violin. I wish i coulld hear them in an unamplified music hall. I wish they had played some longer selections.
I remember it was I who posted a video suggesting musicians could not discern the the differences between a modern violin and a vintage one I never trusted it.

I might be confusing Vibrant because Of his skillful playing. he seemed more energetic with emphasis.

 

[zerostargeneral]

 

[Gregadd]

I might be confusing Vibrant because Of his skillful playing. he seemed more energetic with emphasis.

As the more gifted player he is far less tentative.

 

[morricab]

What I liked most is they were trying to hear a difference.
There was an obvious difference to me. I think the difference was a much more vibrant sound to $10 million dollar violin. I wish i coulld hear them in an unamplified music hall. I wish they had played some longer selections.
I remember it was I who posted a video suggesting musicians could not discern the the differences between a modern violin and a vintage one I never trusted it.

I have actually conducted this trial in real-life. My ex-girlfriend at one time had in the house 5 violins: A Strad, which was worth about $4M at the time (might be a lot more now), A Guarneri Del Gesu worth around $2M at the time, An Amati worth I don't know but it was from 1692 so I guess over $1M, Guadhinini worth about $900K and a modern violin that a friend of her's was importing costing a bit over $2K.

All sounded radically different: The cheap violin literally sounded like an empty box of wood with hardly any real tone. The Guarneri was quite dark sounding (it also had a nasty "wolf" tone) and the Amati was light and airy but not very much power. The Guadhinini was well balanced and had a lovely tone but only moderate projection power compared to the Strad and the Guarneri. The Strad was a sonic cannon! So much power coming out of this instrument got one looking for the 1000 watt amp hiding somewhere. Tonally, it was not as sweet as the Amati or the Guadhinini but it was close enough not to really matter.

An intersting thing we did is take a microphone and look at the FFT spectrum (I have a 1/6 band RTA) when the same note is played at about the same intensity. There were obvious differences in the spectra of each violin...with the same bow. Change the bow and the sound (and spectrum) could be shifted somewhat. My ex had a bow for dynamic pieces and a different bow for romantic pieces. A lot came down to the stiffness of the bow.

The conclusion was that the differences were not subtle and that a musician's instrument then becomes something rather personal with regard to the tone and dynamics of the sound. This should be easily heard with a decent stereo system.

 

[Testy Troll]

I have actually conducted this trial in real-life. My ex-girlfriend at one time had in the house 5 violins: A Strad, which was worth about $4M at the time (might be a lot more now), A Guarneri Del Gesu worth around $2M at the time, An Amati worth I don't know but it was from 1692 so I guess over $1M, Guadhinini worth about $900K and a modern violin that a friend of her's was importing costing a bit over $2K.

All sounded radically different: The cheap violin literally sounded like an empty box of wood with hardly any real tone. The Guarneri was quite dark sounding (it also had a nasty "wolf" tone) and the Amati was light and airy but not very much power. The Guadhinini was well balanced and had a lovely tone but only moderate projection power compared to the Strad and the Guarneri. The Strad was a sonic cannon! So much power coming out of this instrument got one looking for the 1000 watt amp hiding somewhere. Tonally, it was not as sweet as the Amati or the Guadhinini but it was close enough not to really matter.

An intersting thing we did is take a microphone and look at the FFT spectrum (I have a 1/6 band RTA) when the same note is played at about the same intensity. There were obvious differences in the spectra of each violin...with the same bow. Change the bow and the sound (and spectrum) could be shifted somewhat. My ex had a bow for dynamic pieces and a different bow for romantic pieces. A lot came down to the stiffness of the bow.

The conclusion was that the differences were not subtle and that a musician's instrument then becomes something rather personal with regard to the tone and dynamics of the sound. This should be easily heard with a decent stereo system.

That's some rich girlfriend you have there!

 

[Gregadd]

Antique art is what determines the price of theses violins.

You are fortunate indeed to be in a room with so much money. i was afraid to use my gf hand made water pitcher,

I find it ironic that it is claimed that no audible difference can be discerned between such instruments. Those same people argue all instruments sound different. Therefore it is impossible to match real music to recorded music. If you have not heard a particular guitar who could you kow what it sounds like. Go figure.

 

[morricab]

That's some rich girlfriend you have there!

She didn't own them...

 

[morricab]

Antique art is what determines the price of theses violins.

You are fortunate indeed to be in a room with so much money. i was afraid to use my gf hand made water pitcher,

I find it ironic that it is claimed that no audible difference can be discerned between such instruments. Those same people argue all instruments sound different. Therefore it is impossible to match real music to recorded music. If you have not heard a particular guitar who could you kow what it sounds like. Go figure.

The difference was not only audible it was measurable...

 

[Lee]

I can add some value here. I record Atlanta Symphony violin players like Olga Schpitko. If you record a violin at 16/44 you can't capture the sweetness of the better violins. When Olga upgraded the violin, the sweetness of the violin could only be completely heard in DSD and 24/176. We use a Korg for DSD and a SoundDevices for 24/176.

In real life, a better quality violin is noticeable. Olga upgraded to a very expensive violin several years back and the tone was quite apparent...but you really want to hear it in hires.

FWIW, I think DSD does a better job than PCM. We use a mic cable splitter to record to each device. DSD always sounds more analog.

 

[Lee]

I have actually conducted this trial in real-life. My ex-girlfriend at one time had in the house 5 violins: A Strad, which was worth about $4M at the time (might be a lot more now), A Guarneri Del Gesu worth around $2M at the time, An Amati worth I don't know but it was from 1692 so I guess over $1M, Guadhinini worth about $900K and a modern violin that a friend of her's was importing costing a bit over $2K.

All sounded radically different: The cheap violin literally sounded like an empty box of wood with hardly any real tone. The Guarneri was quite dark sounding (it also had a nasty "wolf" tone) and the Amati was light and airy but not very much power. The Guadhinini was well balanced and had a lovely tone but only moderate projection power compared to the Strad and the Guarneri. The Strad was a sonic cannon! So much power coming out of this instrument got one looking for the 1000 watt amp hiding somewhere. Tonally, it was not as sweet as the Amati or the Guadhinini but it was close enough not to really matter.

An intersting thing we did is take a microphone and look at the FFT spectrum (I have a 1/6 band RTA) when the same note is played at about the same intensity. There were obvious differences in the spectra of each violin...with the same bow. Change the bow and the sound (and spectrum) could be shifted somewhat. My ex had a bow for dynamic pieces and a different bow for romantic pieces. A lot came down to the stiffness of the bow.

The conclusion was that the differences were not subtle and that a musician's instrument then becomes something rather personal with regard to the tone and dynamics of the sound. This should be easily heard with a decent stereo system.

We have captured different bows on recordings too and totally agree. Bows make a huge difference.

 

[morricab]

I can add some value here. I record Atlanta Symphony violin players like Olga Schpitko. If you record a violin at 16/44 you can't capture the sweetness of the better violins. When Olga upgraded the violin, the sweetness of the violin could only be completely heard in DSD and 24/176. We use a Korg for DSD and a SoundDevices for 24/176.

In real life, a better quality violin is noticeable. Olga upgraded to a very expensive violin several years back and the tone was quite apparent...but you really want to hear it in hires.

FWIW, I think DSD does a better job than PCM. We use a mic cable splitter to record to each device. DSD always sounds more analog.

Interesting. I was recording with analog tape and could hear the differences quite easily too. I recorded as well in 16/48(DAT) but not different violins.

 

[astrotoy]

Ed Pong may want to comment. I know he has found major differences between bows with the professional violinists he records, playing on top notch violins.

I had a special experience in 2019 in London when I was invited to a demonstration of four different rare violins by the violinist Jennifer Pike at the famed string shop J and A Beare. There were three Strads including one Golden Age Strad, and one Guarneri del Gesu. They ranged in price from around 4M GBP to close to 20M GBP. There were about eight of us at the demo, including several Russians. After playing each instrument (I liked the darker sound of the del Gesu the best, but the Golden Age Strad was very close in quality, though different in sound), Jennifer took those two (they were also the most expensive of the four) and went into their small concert hall and played a recital for us. We sat very close - maybe 10 feet away from her and the piano. I think the demo was aimed at the Russians who probably had the money to buy one or more of them. What is now the practice of many uber wealthy clients, is that they buy a rare instrument for investment purposes, but then lend (through Beare's) the instrument to young violinist who cannot afford their own super instrument. The instrument is loaned on a one year contract, with the possibility for renewal each year. The violinist is normally responsible for the cost of insurance, although that is sometimes partly subsidized for the more expensive instruments.

Larry

 

[morricab]

For those with an ongoing interest in the topic, here is a must have cd:

 

[morricab]

For those with an ongoing interest in the topic, here is a must have cd:
View attachment 73537 View attachment 73538

I have now given this cd a good listen and the difference in the sound of the violins is striking. My preferences in order:
Strad
Guadagnini
Amati
Vuillaume
Horvath
P. Guarneri
A. Guarneri

To my ears, both Guarneris sound closed-in and weak on dynamics. The Strad has a nice open sound with rich tonal palate. The Guad is very open with a lot of high frequency dynamics but is perhaps slight thin in body...the most different sounding of the bunch but I liked it. Amati was a bit like the Strad just diminished in every way. The Vuillaume sounds like someone who was trying to make a Strad copy and just didn't quite succeed. Horvath was ok but not standout to me.

 

[Gregadd]

A famous guitar said that the sound of his own guitar changes while he is playing it.

 

[Gregadd]

By contrast​

So we can see how the game is played. Pseudoscience combined with a few facts that don't support the conclusion. Quite different from the Dumb and Dumber thread. Still incorrect.