Documentary: Making a Murderer - Part Deux | October 19, 2018 - Netflix

[NorthStar]

Though it's easy to focus on the fact that the documentary has been very profitable for Netflix, it is good that it has brought to people's attention that unfortunately our justice system is not perfect and innocent people sometimes wind up in prison for very long periods (and executed). Ms. Zellner has certainly done an excellent job, but there are many other innocent people in similar situations as SA and BD. The Innocence Project (see link below) is the group that works tirelessly to get these people exonerated. There are many volunteers, but it is still quite expensive, so if you would really like to make a difference, you should look into donating some money to these guys. I have been donating every year for some time now.
https://www.innocenceproject.org/

Just in America it is estimated that there are between roughly 50,000 and 250,000 innocent people (and this figure is very low...it is probably much much higher in true reality) who are rotting in jail for crimes that they didn't commit, and were wrongly, unjustly convicted and incarcerated.

"It is too easy to convict an innocent person.
The rate of wrongful convictions in the United States is estimated to be somewhere between 2 percent and 10 percent. That may sound low, but when applied to an estimated prison population of 2.3 million, the numbers become staggering. Can there really be 46,000 to 230,000 innocent people locked away? Those of us who are involved in exoneration work firmly believe so."
_____

We need an army of Kathleen Zellners, a whole bunch like her. ...Replicants, artificial intelligence, ...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Of course the criminal justice system makes mistakes. I am sure that wrongly convicted innocent people are sitting in jail today. Two percent to 10 percent wrongful convictions does not sound low to me at all; it sounds unbelievably tragic, if true.

I personally support the axiom that “better 100 guilty people go free than one innocent person is imprisonmened.”

But these estimates sound to me like somebody’s propaganda. Please provide citation for these estimates of wrongly convicted innocent people in jail.

How were these estimates arrived at? What was the analysis?

 

[NorthStar]

It is already provided; from the quote above just click on "easy to convict".

 

[NorthStar]

Google: How many innocent people are in jail in America (USA), scientific studies

Check:
- Innocence Project
- National Geographic (4.1%)

...And other top notch articles (links) on the subject.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Not remotely, Bob. Did you read the link?

There is no evidence, no study, no analysis, no nothing substantial there to support that 2% to 10% claim. All that's there is the bald assertion of a novelist — with zero citation, proof or evidence.

 

[NorthStar]

Of course I've read the link (I always do).

Then read the four articles (links provided) from above your post.
Key words:
1. Innocence
2. National
3. articles
4. subject

 

[Steve Williams]

It's my understanding SA and BrD have completely exhausted ALL legal remedies so it's going to require an extraordinary external political rather than legal mechanism to come into play, maybe a governor's type of intervention or state legislation or maybe the federal Attorney General.

Probably the only thing that will get them out is if the real killer(s) are caught, or come forward, with irrefutable evidence. Confessions alone I don't think would be enough.

Just a curiosity, how did someone with a clearly lower IQ than BrD actually get a license to practice law? I'm talking about that pinhead who was BrD's attorney.

Hmmm... I wonder if he wasn't an unwitting part of the frame up as well.

I totally agree Swede. This is big money for Netflix. There won’t be a gubernatorial pardon.Public sentiment is just that and all we are reading here are pumped up feelings.

You don’t see the police out looking for the real killers because in their minds they have the real killers as it covers their complicity in the case

She may be smart and committed and is not walking away so she smells pie in the sky rewards should it be overturned.

Although I am convinced he is innocent and she is his strongest advocate I remain worried with her upcoming appellate brief.

So no matter how many people like Bob are on the band wagon, pulblic sentiment is not going to overturn this case.

Everything hashed and rehashed here merely fuels the fire of public sentiment. Nothing more.

IIRC not even the POTUS can intervene although they do grant clemency to many well heeled federal prisoners

I hate to be negative but I have yet to hear anything regarding her 1300 page document requesting an evidentiary hearing

If she is granted that hearing then we can be more optimistic. Until then everything Bob is posting is pure sentiment.

 

[NorthStar]

Is it permissible? I've got a really good hunch. I have great trust in that woman. I've watched a movie last night and it looked and sounded perfect (almost). I trust my senses, my instincts, I trust me, I trust changes, I trust the climate, the next climax.

KATHLEEN ZELLNER PUBLICLY ACCUSES BOBBY DASSEY AND SCOTT TADYCH AGAIN

Kathleen Zellner suggests Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych planted Steven Avery's blood in Teresa Halbach's car.

Music is human emotion, you cannot measure human emotion but you can certainly feel it.

 

[NorthStar]

As I understand it, SA has exhausted all his legal appeals so KZ has to resort to whatever other means left to her. Perhaps she thinks if she can stir up enough public outrage the Wisc legislature or Congress will revisit the appeals rules so that cases like SA's can get a fairer hearing.

It's my understanding SA and BrD have completely exhausted ALL legal remedies so it's going to require an extraordinary external political rather than legal mechanism to come into play, maybe a governor's type of intervention or state legislation or maybe the federal Attorney General.

Probably the only thing that will get them out is if the real killer(s) are caught, or come forward, with irrefutable evidence. Confessions alone I don't think would be enough.

Yes, yes and yes.

 

[Steve Williams]

I cannot fathom that the Wi legislature or congress will intervene let alone can intervene in this due process. So "no"

Yes to the fact they have exhausted all legal remedies

Finally do you really think that the Manitowoc police are looking for the real killers. They have said repeatedly that in their opinion they have the real killers. Plus if the police and DA are complicit to what end would it serve them to look for the killers. So "no"


Unless KZ 1300 page brief for a new evidentiary hearing is upheld, I am afraid that they are both going to remain in jail pursuant to AEDPA

https://theintercept.com/2016/05/04/the-untold-story-of-bill-clintons-other-crime-bill/

 

[NorthStar]

No, they don't look for the real killers Steve, they have zero interest to.
To the contrary, if they find out who killed Theresa a bunch of people are going to end up in jail for crimes that they TRULY committed. Besides, I'm sure they knew from a long time ago who are the real killers. But framing Steve and Brendan was more rewarding to them, $36 million more rewarding.

I said before that Kathleen got a confession from the real murderer (another different case), and that confession freed her client.

There are legal resources beyond what we know that Kathleen Zellner has in her bag.
I am not a legal expert, she is. She knows what she's doing, I am prepared to see Steven Avery walking free in 2019.

What she posted recently to her fans, the nineteen facts, including the cell phone call traced by the cell tower with the exact time and place, the telephone conversation between Steven and his sister and Scott, the lies from Bobby, ... it is a question of when now because Scott and Bobby have been uncovered. They just won't get away with it, not with Kathleen on their back, no way Jose.

I understand very well what you are saying about all the legal recourses being expired, but it doesn't seem to stop someone like Kathleen Zellner. She said it's only the beginning.
It's also a new climate in Wisconsin, after the mid-terms.

 

[Steve Williams]

I understand very well what you are saying about all the legal recourses being expired, but it doesn't seem to stop someone like Kathleen Zellner. She said it's only the beginning.
It's also a new climate in Wisconsin, after the mid-terms.

everyone hopes you are correct Bob but through all of this we have to accept how the legal system works. And it sure doesn't work quickly

 

[Steve Williams]

we are all hoping for the best

 

[NorthStar]

Slow it is, extremely slow. ...Except when it's about freedom of speech and concerning top journalists.

 

[Steve Williams]

Slow it is, extremely slow. ...Except when it's about freedom of speech and concerning top journalists.

You lost me there Bob

 

[NorthStar]

You said: "And it sure doesn't work quickly."

I said yes, very slow, except for the CNN journalist who recently sued the white house to get his access card back. It took only few days, a judge ruled in favor of the CNN journalist very quick.

Journalists who are mistreated, anywhere in the world, the international community take it very seriously.
They are an important fabric of our society. It doesn't go unnoticed, as Canada complained not long ago about a woman journalist who was arrested and jailed in Saudi Arabia. It created a huge issue...if you followed the news when it happened. Very very sad.
So journalists are very important. ...For some countries more. Where they are less important are from countries who have crimes to hide. But the international community is concerned about their safety and their right to free speech.

 

[NorthStar]

That lady judge in Wisconsin, she looks like she was bribed; Court Judge Angela Sutkiewicz of Sheboygan County, Wisconsin.

She replaced the original judge who presided in Steven Avery's court case, and who is now retired. Do you think she's a problem? She sure is. She refused to reopen the case even with strong "anomalies" presented to her by Kathleen Zellner.

But the battle is not over, December 20* (next month) is Kathleen's date for her new presentation.

* Kathleen Zellner wants a retrial, and the reason is explained from that short article (just click on the date, Dec. 20).

Excerpt:

"The timing of Zellner’s sharing of new information re her investigation of Avery’s case fell neatly between the release of MaM2 and her next filing in court, due Dec. 20th.

The filing, with the Court of Appeals in Wisconsin (COA), will likely expand upon Zellner’s assertions presented on twitter via a variety of sworn affidavits, scientific testing, and documentation refuting testimony given by key witnesses, prior, during, and after Avery’s trial.

Zellner’s aim—as has been since she took on Avery’s post-conviction case nearly 3-years-ago—is for her client to receive a new trial. With the appeals process beginning at the circuit court level, Zellner’s progress has been stymied due to the unwillingness of Circuit Court Judge Angela Sutkiewicz to consider evidence presented that rubbishes both state, and key witnesses version of events.

Within Sutkiewicz’s jurisdiction was the granting of an Evidentiary hearing—commonplace in cases where potentially key evidence of an exculpatory nature were not presented at a defendant’s trial—for Avery. Her denial, has lead to Zellner’s forthcoming brief with the COA.

While the COA is not a fact finding court, and will not consider Zellner’s findings, it is within their jurisdiction to remand the case back to the trial court for such a hearing in order to do so.

Whether Zellner can ‘solve’ who murdered Teresa Halbach remains to be seen. Indeed, as Zellner has made clear on more than one occasion, it is not her job to do so, but rather law enforcement’s—to which they ‘failed miserably. What is likely more pertinent to Avery however, is his attorney continuing to prove that the state’s narrative presented at trial was impossible, and that their key witnesses who helped bolster that narrative committed perjury on the stand."

 

[Steve Williams]

That lady judge in Wisconsin, she looks like she was bribed; Court Judge Angela Sutkiewicz of Sheboygan County, Wisconsin.

Bob

Seriously???


She "looks"like she has been bribed ???

I suggest you be careful with your allegations. The original judge retired. Nothing wrong with that, right?

She was assigned the case and denied a further evidentiary hearing based on IIRC AEDPA law. Surely that doesn't mean she was bribed nor is there any evidence or comments about that anywhere. The judge was making a determination based on law and you proclaim she was bribed.

I suggest your emotion is working overtime and you are out of line in your comment Bob. Just because a judge rules against them based on law is simply mean and ill spirited on your part to says she "looks like she has been bribed"

Emotions run strong Bob in your brain but at the end of the day it is the law that the judge quickly refused to hear the evidence and IIRC based on that decision KZ decided it would be easier to seek a new trial rather than to get it overturned at the Appeals Court level

 

[NorthStar]

Steve, relax I said "she looks".

My emotions and my brain leave them alone Steve, this is not for you to judge.
Talk about the case, not about me and don't misjudge me, Steve.

Judge

In a statement, Zellner expressed disappointment with the decision and said it contained "numerous factual errors, misapplies the law and was filed two days after the due date set by the appellate court."

"Most states appoint special magistrates to handle post-conviction cases so as to not burden the local judiciary," she wrote. "We look forward to including this one issue in the multiple issues currently pending before the appellate court. We look forward to experiencing the level of judicial analysis we know exists with the higher courts of Wisconsin.”

 

[Steve Williams]

Bob

You said "she looks like she has been bribed'

I take exception to that comment. What does "looks bribed' look like and if that comment doesn't reflect your emotion then I also take exception to your comments

Unless you have some facts to corroborate that statement you made my comment stands.

Im trying to understand what "looks bribed" looks like. And yes your emotion is working overtime in this thread Bob.

Do you see a lot of people posting in this thread? It continues to show that the majority of people have no knowledge of this case or just don't care or they understand how the justice system works rather than stating that a circuit court judge "looks bribed"

This to me continues to show that there are a bunch of zealots like yourself who continue to add non substantive comments such as the one with which I took issue