Dspeaker anti-mode 2.0 Dual Core Processor - Anyone try it?

[Barry]

Just purchased one of these to play with and wondered if any others have tried it. It's described as the Swiss -army knife of digital processing. Besides being a DAC, it has room measurement capability, it does room correction, it has digital crossover settings, has several different sound curves built in or you can use its parametric equalizer feature among other things or "all the above". It's firmware is updateable on line and besides viewing room & corrected response on its screen, you can print out it's measurements to a laptop via a USB connection.

So far, I've just played around with the measurement capabilty. It comes with a mic and you can run and store a few measurement sweeps in just a few minutes. It'll do an automatic correction and you can listen to a before and after. It's really easy to use.

Not sure about the sound quality as I haven't listened to it that long. I was able to sort out my analog crossover slopes to yield a better visual result (not using digital ones). I don't have a good feel for how well the digital correction feature works yet. It mostly cuts peaks as opposed to boosting dips. My room is treated and mostly has 2-3 fairly narrow dips within 10-12dB below 300 Hz so I'm not hearing a huge corrected difference. Probably need more time needed to play with it.

Feedback from others?

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Traditionally I haven’t been too fond of the Antimode, because its auto EQ function only cuts peaks and ignores depressions, as you can see from the graphs in this post. If you have depressions in bass response, addressing them will get an improvement in sound. The latest model Antimode (the one you’re referring to) has on-board parametric equalization, so that problem might be addressed now. However, if you have to manually set the parametric EQ, then it makes more sense to just get something like the BFD for a lot less money.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Traditionally I haven’t been too fond of the Antimode, because its auto EQ function only cuts peaks and ignores depressions, as you can see from the graphs in this post. If you have depressions in bass response, addressing them will get an improvement in sound. The latest model Antimode (the one you’re referring to) has on-board parametric equalization, so that problem might be addressed now. However, if you have to manually set the parametric EQ, then it makes more sense to just get something like the BFD for a lot less money.

It makes sense to me that an automatic EQ mode ignore depressions or severely limit the amount of boost that can be applied. If the depression is a real null, correction is pretty hopeless and only wastes system gain. Doing a boost manually, one can see if it is effective or not.

 

[wilson1]

Barry, any feedback on this unit?

 

[RBFC]

From what I've gleaned, the AntiMode units perform fairly well within their design limits. I agree that it is not wise to attempt to apply too much boost to bass depressions (you can easily clip amplifiers if you're attempting to defeat a room null) and that re-positioning your speakers, etc. is a better solution.

Lee

 

[amirm]

I heard a prototype at a show (CES?) and it sounded good in that demo.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I agree that it is not wise to attempt to apply too much boost to bass depressions (you can easily clip amplifiers if you're attempting to defeat a room null)...

EQ boosting or cutting is usually academic, as far as amplifier headroom is concerned. This is because your sub level is typically determined by a peak in response. When you eliminate the peak with equalization, you will then find that the sub’s level is too low, and you have to increase it to compensate for the equalization. Well – say “goodbye” to any headroom you thought you “saved” by using only cutting filters. Gain is gain as far as the signal that passes to the amplifier is concerned. It doesn’t matter if it comes from EQ filters or the sub’s level control.

Of course, boosting nulls is fruitless. However nulls are easy to identify, typically deep and narrow.

Nulls before equalization

Nulls after equalization​

By contrast, depressions in response are typically rather broad and respond well to equalization.

Trough before equalization

Trough after equalization​

What apparently escapes some folks is the electrical response of the equalizer as filters are added. Let’s take the case of a response curve with a 45 Hz peak. If you use a bunch of filters to boost everything above and below 45 Hz up to the level of the peak, the electrical response of the equalizer, passed to the sub’s amp, would look something like this:

However, if you merely use a single filter to cut the peak, then re-adjusted the sub’s output to compensate, the electrical response seen by the amplifier would look like this:

For all practical purposes, what is the difference between the two? Nothing, really: In both cases, the signal passing to the amp has a big hole where 45 Hz “used” to be, and is relatively flat on either side of it (save for the natural roll-out of the filters in the first picture).

And - it should be a no-brainer that multiple cutting filters leave you with peaks between the filters!

So at the end of the day, cut-only filters accomplish nothing as far as “headroom saving” is concerned. The simple truth is, virtually any equalization taxes amplifier (and driver) headroom, so you have to have enough to spare going in. I typically advise people to limit equalizing to about 8 dB – i.e., the total of the maximum boost and cut values. Admittedly, that’s rather arbitrary. It’s probably inadvisable to try to equalize the typical 8-inch sub at all, while a small room with a pair of SVS PB13 Ultras could probably withstand some pretty radical equalizing.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[RBFC]

I agree with what you posted, and you will see that nothing in my previous post states anything different. Thank you for the great graphs illustrating the points under discussion.

Lee

 

[audioguy]

I've got one on order for my subs (even though my SSP has Audyssey).

Steve: This could be a great solution for you: Place it in front of your subs so won't affect the mids/highs; lots of flexibility; no PC required; has a lot more capability than the EQ in your subs; very reasonably priced ($1100); Robert Green of TAS has reviewed every room correction product out there for the last 20 years (starting with the SigTech)and he raves about this thing; and while, in your application, it converts the analog signal to digital and back, it does so at a high sampling rate and I would be flabbergasted if it were not totally transparent given it is only working on your subs; and if it does not meet your needs, turn around and sell it and maybe lose $200.

 

[Steve Williams]

Thanks Chuck

right now all of my effort is being placed in the room itself as I have been working with an acoustician

 

[rblnr]

I've got one on order for my subs (even though my SSP has Audyssey).

Steve: This could be a great solution for you: Place it in front of your subs so won't affect the mids/highs; lots of flexibility; no PC required; has a lot more capability than the EQ in your subs; very reasonably priced ($1100); Robert Green of TAS has reviewed every room correction product out there for the last 20 years (starting with the SigTech)and he raves about this thing; and while, in your application, it converts the analog signal to digital and back, it does so at a high sampling rate and I would be flabbergasted if it were not totally transparent given it is only working on your subs; and if it does not meet your needs, turn around and sell it and maybe lose $200.

Heard it at CES last week, was impressed with the flexibility of the unit; seemed to work well too though a little tough to make a determination in show conditions.

Curious to hear what you think Chuck. It could be perfect for my setup as I've got a separate path to the subs, wouldn't touch the mids/highs at all.

 

[audioguy]

Thanks Chuck

right now all of my effort is being placed in the room itself as I have been working with an acoustician

That would be the perfect first move. Who are you using?

 

[audioguy]

Heard it at CES last week, was impressed with the flexibility of the unit; seemed to work well too though a little tough to make a determination in show conditions.

Curious to hear what you think Chuck. It could be perfect for my setup as I've got a separate path to the subs, wouldn't touch the mids/highs at all.

We have discussed our opinions within WBF on the various reviewers and one of my favorites is Robert Green. But specifically, as noted, he is more familiar than any other reviewer with room correction, so I take his opinion very seriously. Plus I read a lot of reviews on it prior to pulling the trigger. And as I noted to Steve, pretty small downside if it does not work.

 

[Steve Williams]

I sent you a PM. The person I am using has a PhD in Acoustics and math and uses mathematical mapping of the room.

 

[C.T.Toad]

Gents,
My first post here on the WBF.
I found this thread from a search of the Dual Core, and thought I might be able to help out a bit.
I purchased mine in a pre-release buy last January from the US Dist Tim Ryan of Simplifi Audio.
Tim graced me by delivering it to me in late August a couple of months after the initial first wave were sent out.
No worries though, along with the wait came some extra goodies as compensation, so all in all a good deal was had.

I was very familiar with what the Dspeaker Antimode products can do having previously owned the 8033s.
I'm using my D/C as a preamp/dac/room correction device into a 2.2 speaker system.
Set up was a breeze and ran my first calibration (Typical)straight away.
The D/C was a real step up from the 8033s in many ways. First off the Typical calibration adjusts all frequencies from 150hz on down. My subs are crossed over at 100hz to mate well with my monitors, so even the monitors were part of the calibration (8033s is subs only). Over the next couple of months I had a lot of fun making up different profiles with a wide range of calibration and saving them for comparison. There is a learning curve to using the D/C so read the owners manual very carefully and adhere to the warnings about frequency lifting and volume levels.
Tim called towards the end of Oct. and showed me how to use the measuring device to to help get a better idea of what was going on in my room. I ran a sweep took a picture of the screen and emailed it to him. From the reading he was able to help guide me to get better bass response. The first sweep showed a large "hole' dip in the 20 -55hz range and a large peak in the 85hz range. Remember this is raw data with no smoothing applied.



Tim had me move the subs from in the room near the monitors to the adjacent corners on the front wall, run a sweep, take the pic and send it to him. He advised that I turn up the subs gain, run a sweep, take pic and send it to him. This went on for about 2.5 hours and in the end my sub gain control went from 9:00 to 3:00 and we ended up with this for a measurement;



Before and After



This was the first time that I had ever experienced full, near flat bass anywhere let alone in my own system.
Over the next couple of days I was like a kid in a candy store listening to my music for the first time with the bass corrected this way. Disc after disc was played and the enjoyment factor was through the roof!
These pictures were taken on 10/24/12 and 5 days later Hurricane Sandy deposited 2' of water into my listening room.
I was fortunate enough to remove all of my gear from the room and now it all sits in boxes in our spare bedroom, that I hope to set up as an audio room soon.

So if anyone has any questions regarding the Dual core fell free to ask, if I can help I will or try and get the answer for you elsewhere.

Chris

 

[audioguy]

Heard it at CES last week, was impressed with the flexibility of the unit; seemed to work well too though a little tough to make a determination in show conditions.

Curious to hear what you think Chuck. It could be perfect for my setup as I've got a separate path to the subs, wouldn't touch the mids/highs at all.

I have played with it a bit on my subs but it doesn't work like any of the other room correction products I've had. While it is pretty straight forward to use out of the box, that won't be enough in most cases.

Stay tuned as I experiment more over the next few days. I am also (only to learn more) going to try to get it to work in a 2.2 environment.

One thing I find a bit odd is when doing subs, I can tell no difference on the way it performs the correction process if I tell it is a .2 mono sub system, .2 stereo sub system or a .1 mono sub system but I will experiment some more.

 

[C.T.Toad]

I have played with it a bit on my subs but it doesn't work like any of the other room correction products I've had. While it is pretty straight forward to use out of the box, that won't be enough in most cases.

Stay tuned as I experiment more over the next few days. I am also (only to learn more) going to try to get it to work in a 2.2 environment.

One thing I find a bit odd is when doing subs, I can tell no difference on the way it performs the correction process if I tell it is a .2 mono sub system, .2 stereo sub system or a .1 mono sub system but I will experiment some more.

I tried this already and found that the best for me was using the 2.0 Stereo setting.
The Dual Core will see the subs as part of a full range speaker system amd calibrate the bandwidth as per your choice.
If you want to do the .2 (sub only) part of your set up use .2 Stereo Sub setting.

Hope this helps,

Chris

 

[audioguy]

I tried this already and found that the best for me was using the 2.0 Stereo setting.
The Dual Core will see the subs as part of a full range speaker system amd calibrate the bandwidth as per your choice.
If you want to do the .2 (sub only) part of your set up use .2 Stereo Sub setting.

Hope this helps,

Chris

I have a reasonable amount of experience in using various room correction products (SigTech, TacT, Audyssey, Rives, etc) and they all tend to do their data gathering in similar ways.

I am only interested (for now) in correcting my subs. I set it up for .2 stereo subs and I sat in the room to hear what was going on during the data gathering process. It never pinged or put sound out of 1 sub at a time. I only heard sounds coming for both subs simultaneously. Without testing individual subs, it can not determine distance that each is from the MLP nor can it determine the individual sub output so that it could adjust trim.

Since I was doing this rather quickly, it is entirely possible that I did something wrong. If you have done what I am trying to do and you did hear sounds coming from the individual subs, I will try it again and see if I am doing something wrong or if there is something wrong with my unit.

 

[C.T.Toad]

audioguy,

In the owners manual, Section 6 Advanced Calibration pgs 24-25 will help you with this issue. You must set the time alignment to Auto Detect when using for sub only.

The Dual Core will send out pings as needed for each sub.

If this isn't happening then you might have a defective unit.

I did this accidentally in the 2.0 mode and thought I blew out my monitors.

Chris

 

[amirm]

Welcome to the forum Chris and thanks for sharing first hand info on this product. I have only seen and played with it at shows so your experience with it especially with those graphs was a good read. It did exactly as it should by knocking down the peaks.