EAR Yoshino 912

[kodomo]

I am interested in this unit and would like to hear peoples experiences an opinions on it.

I was looking to buy a VdH Grail SB phono pre along a Emia silver remote autoformer for pre duties. It seems this unit can do both. Is it on par with what I am after, does anyone has any experience with this unit?

I like the phono pre approach, it is like grail and ch precisions current input. Luxman was one of the first to release a pre like that and I guess Paravicini had worked there, maybe he is the originator of the topology commercially, I do not know.

I need two balanced inputs besides my phono input and tw parallel balanced outputs and it has. It would mean one less equipment on the rack for me which is welcome.

However, it all depends on how it sounds...

 

[bonzo75]

Montesquieu on this forum owns it. He is not very active on the forum so best to PM. He has been trying to find a budget phono and pre to replace this for a while. At the price point, it's not easy, though paying up there are many better options. He tried a few like airtight ate 2005, silvercore, thoress, did not like those and loved the Allnic 7000 (replacement for 3000 which is now discontinued, that I own and loaned him to try).

The pre in the ear is not as good and he is looking at various options including audiopax. Of course the joint used price of both exceeds the sale price of the ear. I know his system well and will soon get to hear the Allnic when I go to his (He lives just outside London).

He is mainly a pre classical era listener and uses Ikeda 9tt, Miyajima madake, mono, and SPU carts with 833c amps into vintage tannoys

Personally I think the system is capable of much more than the ear but the value price of pre plus phono is difficult to match by separates.

 

[kodomo]

Thank you, I will contact Montesquieu.

It is not only value that I am after but if it does what people claims why not pay less. After posting my topic I kept searching the internet. I have found a direct comparison to grail by a Danish speaker designer who owns both. He says although one is tube and other is solid state they sound nearly the same but then investigates further and decides 912 is truer to the source. (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/EAR-912.htm)

912 is on my radar mainly because of the phono pre but as I have written before, it satisfies my pre duties and if it sounds as good or better, it means one less box and interconnects.

 

[bonzo75]

I don't know about grail but it is not that good a phono in terms of price compare. It is just a low price pre plus phono combo. Many separates will be better. Maybe the guy who compared does not like SS or the grail was not the right fit. You will enjoy music with it though

 

[kodomo]

I don't know about grail but it is not that good a phono in terms of price compare. It is just a low price pre plus power combo. Many separates will be better. Maybe the guy who compared does not like SS or the grail was not the right fit. You will enjoy music with it though

You say ear 912 is low price line stage? What do you mean plus power? It does not have power. It is just line stage with phono preamp. Am I missing something because of a language barrier?

 

[bonzo75]

I meant pre plus phono, not power, sorry. Edited

 

[KeithR]

@bazelio is well versed in EAR preamps/phonos - you might reach out directly to him

 

[bazelio]

The EAR 912 is an integrated EAR 868 line stage (same circuits) with a three-tube phono stage. Its phono stage is very similar to the circuit in the standalone 88pb EAR phono, but without the 4th buffer tube stage. I'm very familiar with all this equipment. Bonzo is absolutely correct in his assessment that the EAR line stage is its biggest weakness. The EAR phono stages, I'd rank as OK. That is, without the EAR line stage in play, an 88pb with Silver Emia (a combo I've tried extensively) is good but not great. I think the TDP wound transformers add a lot of color and veil. And depending on the 6922 tube of choice, more of the same.

I've also had the VdH Grail and silver Emia AVC in house for an extended demo. My personal favorite combo thus far, though, has been the Emia phono stage with D3a tubes and the Emia silver AVC. This is my long term winning combo as it does it all: PRaT, tone, soundstage, detail, dynamics.

Feel free to PM for more detailed info.

 

[rockhopper]

The 912 is originally designed for playback in professional studios.
There are far more of them being used as such than by private buyers.
Must tell you something.
I purchased mine new in 2007 and have never heard anything that made me want to change. It is a one box solution with superb phone stage with all the adjustments you could ever need. I have it serviced by Tim de P every year then just enjoy the music.

 

[montesquieu]

The EAR 912 is an integrated EAR 868 line stage (same circuits) with a three-tube phono stage. Its phono stage is very similar to the circuit in the standalone 88pb EAR phono, but without the 4th buffer tube stage. I'm very familiar with all this equipment. Bonzo is absolutely correct in his assessment that the EAR line stage is its biggest weakness. The EAR phono stages, I'd rank as OK. That is, without the EAR line stage in play, an 88pb with Silver Emia (a combo I've tried extensively) is good but not great. I think the TDP wound transformers add a lot of color and veil. And depending on the 6922 tube of choice, more of the same.

I've also had the VdH Grail and silver Emia AVC in house for an extended demo. My personal favorite combo thus far, though, has been the Emia phono stage with D3a tubes and the Emia silver AVC. This is my long term winning combo as it does it all: PRaT, tone, soundstage, detail, dynamics.

Feel free to PM for more detailed info.

Just spotted this thread. Your comments here ring true.

I had an EAR 912 for several years but recently sold it. It's a very nice piece of kit indeed but when I recently changed power amps to some Silvercore 833C monoblocks, their additional transparency revealed a weakness in the linestage that hadn't been apparent with lesser amplification. I tried various other linestages, valve and solid state, used with the EAR 912 purely as a phono stage, and confirmed this to my satisfaction. It is undoubtedly a bottleneck.

I think the phono stage is excellent by any standards. I've struggled to beat it (tried several phono stages as Kedar mentions). However I had already been bypassing the internal SUTs using external Miyajima ETR-Stereo and ETR-Mono SUTs respectively - these were a significant upgrade over the internals. If I was to bypass the linestage as well there was no point in having an integrated preamp. But replacing it has been difficult - used with the same external SUTs, even the Allnic H7000V only beats it by a whisker. The Allnic suffers the same in the SUT department, incidentally - its internal SUTs are adequate but can be bettered, and of course you only get one SUT input now, the other MC input uses an internal head amp and is not in the same league as a external SUT. I've yet to hear Allnic's external head amp.

The linestage I've settled on is an the Audiopax Model 5, in 4th generation mode, PSU in particular substantially improved. I had an original first generation one for a play - this was an excellent performer, but it was an early all-black 2004 model and a bit flaky/unreliable. I then heard the Audiopax L50 which I was extremely impressed by, but price-wise I can't stretch to right now having just bought the Allnic. My compromise has been to order a new Model 5 to my spec, fully balanced (two inputs one output balanced, plus assorted unbalanced outputs). I'm pretty sure it will do the job very well indeed I'd probably have been happy with the first generation model had it been in better fettle.

What did the Audiopax bring to the party over the EAR 912 linestage? Oodles of detail, and a staggering ability with space and 3D-ness. It just allows the Silvercores to bloom and perform to their full potential. Going back to using the EAR line stage was far from shabby, but lacked the musical insight I was getting from the Audiopax.

In saying all this, my intent is not in any way do down the EAR 912. I wouldn't pay full new price for one but bought judiciously second hand it's extremely hard to beat as an overall package and my total outlay for SUTs, phono stage and linestage is a good three to four times what I've just sold the EAR for, so hardly a like for like comparison.

 

[bazelio]

Yep. My Intact Audio (Dave Slagle) silver SUT is substantially better than the Paravicini-wound EAR SUTs. If one enjoys detail and articulation, then the EAR gear in general won't be their cup of Earl Grey. It's also a shame to hear the Allnic SUT is not up to snuff. I was wondering if the new H7000-V was a nice sounding unit just the other day because the circuit design sounds promising. But as you say, who wants a phono with MC inputs when you just end up using the MM input and SUT of your choice anyhow.

 

[bonzo75]

The Allnic that montesquieu bought is still with stock recti. Once he rotates KR or WE 422a or RCA it will get even better. Even though external SUT into mm might be the preferred option, rotating the recti and playing directly MC will itself make it sound better than many competitors. Also this is cartridge related. Montesquieu is using the Miyajima madake mostly which is low output. I think the MC does better with more output.

 

[kodomo]

Thanks everyone, this was really helpful.

Well, my alternative was to go silver emia remote autoformer and a vdh grail. I guess emia was the right choice all along. I have heard now emia is building a LR phono pre, maybe I should wait for that.

@bazelio you have the emia silver sut, what phono pre is it connected to and what cartridge were you using?

 

[bonzo75]

Does anyone else have a LR phono?

 

[bazelio]

I have the Emia LR phono.

VdH Grail is a really different sound from EAR 912... You'd better be sure before you buy.

 

[kodomo]

I have the Emia LR phono.

VdH Grail is a really different sound from EAR 912... You'd better be sure before you buy.

You have both the emia lr phono and their sut? Do you need a sut with a LR phono?

Can you please describe the sound of emia LR, Grail and 912 in respect to each other.

 

[XV-1]

There is always something different or better.

 

[montesquieu]

Yep. My Intact Audio (Dave Slagle) silver SUT is substantially better than the Paravicini-wound EAR SUTs. If one enjoys detail and articulation, then the EAR gear in general won't be their cup of Earl Grey. It's also a shame to hear the Allnic SUT is not up to snuff. I was wondering if the new H7000-V was a nice sounding unit just the other day because the circuit design sounds promising. But as you say, who wants a phono with MC inputs when you just end up using the MM input and SUT of your choice anyhow.

Just to be clear I'm not dissing the Allnic, it's a great phono stage and I'm very happy with the choice which was made after looking at quite a few options (the EAR 912 replaced an Aurorasound Vida so I've been using exclusively LCR phono stages for 6-7 years - the Allnic is superior to both as a phono stage). The Vida was another quality stage where the MM input plus a quality SUT is superior to the internal MC input. In fact I've never been 100% convinced with any straight to MC input anywhere, compared to using a top quality SUT.

Though as Kedar says, my cartridge choices have long been very low output and quite particular, from 0.1mV to about 0.2mV in stereo, up to 0.4mV in mono. The Miyajima Madake isn't an easy match at 16 ohm at the cartridge, 0.2mV output. Miyajima's own step-ups are extremely good for this purpose and ultra-flexible being able to adjust both primary and secondary as well as trimming the output impedance for phono stage matching. They are pretty specialist. I was able to borrow Kedar's H7000V and try it out thoroughly before placing my order, so there were no surprises regarding the SUTs and it's not an issue for me, being expected.

In my view the fact that Allnic make their own Head Amp to go with it suggests that they intend the H7000V primarily to be used into MM. However I would bet the internal MC inputs sound pretty reasonable with higher output/more mainstream cartridges. It's not that they are necessarily poor it's just that for my purposes, they can be bettered. But the main event is the LCR phono section with variable EQ, which is excellent, indeed the best I've heard in my setup.

One small thing to note: compared to my Esoteric Re-equalizer box (which goes after RIAA conversion) it only has four rolloff and four turnover options respectively, as opposed to six of each. This slightly limits the range of EQ adjustments that can be performed, though in practice this will really only be an issue at the margins (a few more obscure, mostly early, 78 labels not falling into coverage). Nevertheless, while this is a very useful feature it falls slightly short of being a proper archival-standard variable EQ function. I'm also surprised at the absence of a mono button which again causes a few issues with single coil mono cartridges and ground loops, I found a workaround for that though.

The reviews of both the H3000V and H7000V have been pretty poor in not picking up any of this. Though as I say, not a showstopper for me. It's an excellent phonostage.

 

[bonzo75]

I think that kind of archival and mono button facility is available at AMR ph 77, wavestream, and FM phono (and EMT at a much higher price point).

At least a couple of guys I checked with reported Allnic to be better than AMR and wavestream. Never compared myself.

And for mono, there are ways around the mono button as you said

 

[montesquieu]

I think that kind of archival and mono button facility is available at AMR ph 77, wavestream, and FM phono (and EMT at a much higher price point).

At least a couple of guys I checked with reported Allnic to be better than AMR and wavestream. Never compared myself.

And for mono, there are ways around the mono button as you said

I suspect with the AMR I'd be doing exactly the same thing - setting for MM and using my existing SUTs, though the additional functionality might well be useful. I remain suspicious of trying to amplify tiny signals electronically all the way times thousands of their original levels and I've never heard a head amp or straight through phono stage that does this as well as a decent SUT. (Of course the SUT needs to be top notch).

I kind of like the tactile nature of the Allnic though - I can't be bothered with LED screens and clicking with remotes like on the AMR or the ARC phono stages. The mute button and big rotary knob on the Allnic are lovely to use as are the rotary knobs for EQ. Like the Ikeda tonearms it's a lovely thing to put your hands on and use. Analogue should be analogue!