EMI/RFI/Noise Testing of Power Conditioners and Power Cables

[Ron Resnick]

Has anyone used a EMI/RFI interference or line distortion testing device such at the Trifield EM100 to assess the actual, measureable efficacy of power conditioners, power cables or grounding box devices?

EM100 - Power Line Monitor - TriField

A power line monitor that displays noise in mVp-p (peak to peak), with a sound representation of the noise. - EM100 Quick Start Guide -

www.trifield.com

Just to be clear, I'm not asking for subjective observations, or what particular devices or particular power cords are claimed to do. I am asking if anybody has used an EMI/RFI or distortion testing device to prove to themselves the objective, measurable efficacy of devices or power cords in their home audio system..

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i've got one. have not used it in 3-4 years.

not sure i agree with what it's suppose to do, but also not sure i took it all the way down the road.

 

[tima]

A search on the word Trifield finds a 12 page thread on WBF from a year ago about this topic. It has lots of pictures with examples covering a variety of products from Shunyata to Ching-Cheng to Lutron Dimmers.

Measuring power line noise with the TriField EM100 ...​

 

[Ron Resnick]

There is a 12 page thread on WBF from a year ago about this topic. It has lots of pictures with examples covering a variety of products from Shunyata to Ching-Cheng to Lutron Dimmers.

Measuring power line noise with the TriField EM100 ...​

Thank you!

 

[adyc]

I have one. I have used it to test Uberbuss power conditioner from P.I. Group. The readings of the meter have been dramatically reduced.

Thank you!

 

[Folsom]

Yes. Measured numerous things but the truth of the matter is a bit different.

To do a good job one would need a network analyzer with very high bandwidth, samples taken from all over the house. Things happening at one end may be getting amplified at the stereo end. The performance is only partially noise reduction, the rest is how close to benign the device is itself. The answer is most are not. So your device has limited use.

Amir measured a kitty litter box and found a jump in radio frequencies. He dismissed it because… well Amir doesn’t know anything really. If he had a wider bandwidth he might have found a lot more. They are fucking antennas. There is no mystery. Draw a circuit diagram, just like in HAM radio… The fact that anything else is brought up is insane. I can only imagine the confusion among people who stare at things they’ve seen all their life and suddenly are completely unsure what they’re looking at must be…. “Well I thought it was a car but I’m not sure anymore, maybe it’s a pony or a boulder”

 

[Gjo]

Yes, I have.

The only device I tested that reduced EMI as advertised was an OnFilter CleanSweep filter.

What other devices did I test? AudioQuest Niagara 1200 and 3000, Puritan Audio PSM156, and a $10,000 Synergistic Research filter the model of which I can’t recall.

 

[Cellcbern]

Wonder which is more sensitive when it comes to measuring nosie - the TriField EM100 or the medical instruments in the article below?

Shunyata Research Medical Uses - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

read audio reviews, ratings, and user opinions on audio equipment before you buy an audio system

www.theaudiobeat.com

 

[Gjo]

Wonder which is more sensitive when it comes to measuring nosie - the TriField EM100 or the medical instruments in the article below?

Shunyata Research Medical Uses - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

read audio reviews, ratings, and user opinions on audio equipment before you buy an audio system

www.theaudiobeat.com

If Dr. Daniel Melby really wants to reduce EMI/RFI, then he'll contact Vladimir Kraz and ask about some specialized OnFilter products for medical instruments. NASA and Tesla are customers.

 

[Folsom]

Let me try an analogy here…

I can make your race car vibrate less… by detuning and making it less of a race car. But if I know what I am doing and understand the car, I can reduce vibrations without sacrificing the point of the car.

Power conditioning is like that. A simple measurement tells you nothing about sound.

 

[Cellcbern]

If Dr. Daniel Melby really wants to reduce EMI/RFI, then he'll contact Vladimir Kraz and ask about some specialized OnFilter products for medical instruments. NASA and Tesla are customers.

If you read the article he already did. And it spawned a medical products division for Shunyata.

 

[Gjo]

If you read the article he already did.

I read the article. I don't think you read my comment thoroughly.

I suggested Dr. Daniel Melby contact Vladimir Kraz. The article makes no mention of the doctor contacting Mr. Kraz.

 

[Cellcbern]

I read the article. I don't think you read my comment thoroughly.

I suggested Dr. Daniel Melby contact Vladimir Kraz. The article makes no mention of the doctor contacting Mr. Kraz.

I don't think you understood my comment. I meant he already solved the instruments' noise problem. Of course Mr. Kraz isn't mentioned in the article.

 

[Gjo]

I don't think you understood my comment. I meant he already solved the instruments' noise problem. Of course Mr. Kraz isn't mentioned in the article.

Cool.

Circling back to the original question, I have used the device mentioned by Ron. OnFilter devices are the only filters that passed the test.

 

[adyc]

I think everybody should note that the manufacturer of this meter has never advertised this meter is used for audio application. It is a simple device to tell whether the AC line is noisy or not.
Any serious guy knows that a single number will not tell the whole story. There are much more expensive devices which can give more information.

 

[Ron Resnick]

From using this device on the outlets around my house, both the outlets connected to the special audio room electrical infrastructure, as well as various legacy outlets It seems that the longer the circuit is between the subpanel and the outlet the greater the noise reading.

My impression is that this EMI measuring device has nothing to do with the ground system or a low resistance to ground. It seems to be measuring EMI on the circuit, not the efficacy of the ground to minimize potential to ground.

My LED ceiling lights definitely are very noisy. Even on the good electrical outlets in the audio room I am sometimes seeing 700 on the device.

I am seeing one weird thing: Duplex outlets right next to each other but on different circuits, each with the same circuit length going to the same subpanel, show materially different noise reading sometimes. Why would this be? Could circuits on a different phase show different noise readings?

I think it's pretty great that we have a simple device to actually objectively measure the efficacy of power cords and power conditioners. I wish I has discovered this device years ago!

In amateur radio we use a handheld AM radio as a noise finder. The old trick there is to tune to a quiet null between two broadcast stations, and then put the end of the whip antenna near each possible source of EMI/RFI.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Tomorrow I am visiting a friend with a PS Audio Regenerator. I will take the Trifield to his house and see if the reading at an outlet on the P10 is very low.

 

[Gjo]

Tomorrow I am visiting a friend with a PS Audio Regenerator. I will take the Trifield to his house and see if the reading at an outlet on the P10 is very low.

Three suggestions:

1) First, measure EMI at the wall outlet to get a baseline.
2) Second, measure EMI from the P10 outlets. Each outlet might test differently.
3) If PS Audio offers EMI specs for the P10, compare actual measurements to expected measurements.

Every power conditioner I measured had reduced EMI compared to the wall.

As I have stated previously, only one filter measured as the manufacturer stated it would. That manufacturer made no claim that the filter would alter the sound of the audio system. The only claim he made was that EMI would be reduced to a specified level...and he was proven correct.

 

[Cellcbern]

Haven't done any measuring of noise and don't plan to. Every power purity/noise reduction device/measure I've decided to keep based on critical listening has audibly reduced noise and/or revealed more of the music. At this point my system is so natural sounding and musical - free of etch, glare, brightness, undue emphasis, electronic artifacts, etc. that if I never changed another thing I would be happy with it for the rest of my life. While I know from experience that adding something else would likely improve the sound, everything that was in my listening notes as a weak area (compiled over a decade) has been addressed.

 

[adyc]

Tomorrow I am visiting a friend with a PS Audio Regenerator. I will take the Trifield to his house and see if the reading at an outlet on the P10 is very low.

Interestingly, Uberbuss from PI group does not only reduce the readings of the outlets on it. It will also reduce outlets parallel to it. I kind of use UberBuss as parallel filters.