Ah, I did not see that image
.My question in the last post remains. Is that a standard retail cable or one that they custom built?
Entreq USB Cable Exposed.
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.My question in the last post remains. Is that a standard retail cable or one that they custom built?
I am inferring from the post as well as the photo that you were correct in your assertion, "if the cable is one you can buy in any store and they just put a wrapper on it, then that would be bad"
I think the OP's point, if inelegantly stated, is that Entreq is using an existing inexpensive product (which I am guessing they believe or tested to sound very good) and repackaged it, hiding its origin to be able to sell it at a much higher price point.
That does bring up an interesting question. If a company goes to China to a cable manufacturer and tries out a bunch of cables. They find one that sounds as good or better than much more expensive well regarded "audiophile" cables. They have the company logo put on the cable, maybe with a different color and sell it for many times the price that some other company charges for the same cable from the manufacturer. The company's intellectual contribution is that they determined this particular cable sounded much better than others with a similar price point. If they were a reviewer for a magazine, they would publish the result for readers to know about this "bargain." But they are a company, whose allegiance is to its shareholders, not the general public. Ethical or not?
I remember a few years ago that a pretty well known audiophile company was "caught" taking one of the well regarded Oppo players, changing the faceplate, etc. and reselling it under their name and model number for several times the Oppo price. If I have that story wrong, please correct me.
Larry
That does bring up an interesting question. If a company goes to China to a cable manufacturer and tries out a bunch of cables. They find one that sounds as good or better than much more expensive well regarded "audiophile" cables. They have the company logo put on the cable, maybe with a different color and sell it for many times the price that some other company charges for the same cable from the manufacturer. The company's intellectual contribution is that they determined this particular cable sounded much better than others with a similar price point. If they were a reviewer for a magazine, they would publish the result for readers to know about this "bargain." But they are a company, whose allegiance is to its shareholders, not the general public. Ethical or not?
I remember a few years ago that a pretty well known audiophile company was "caught" taking one of the well regarded Oppo players, changing the faceplate, etc. and reselling it under their name and model number for several times the Oppo price. If I have that story wrong, please correct me.
Larry
Yep: http://www.engadget.com/topics/hd/2...ed-passing-oppo-off-as-a-3500-blu-ray-player/
Entreq reminds me of this one:
]
Impressive looking cable until the cat tried it.
Inside the Techflex you find a some very cheap components
http://www.head-fi.org/t/293165/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3
Entreq reminds me of this one:
]Impressive looking cable until the cat tried it.
Inside the Techflex you find a some very cheap components
http://www.head-fi.org/t/293165/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3
If I were making an expensive cable, or ANY cable and there were text imprints on it "USB2.0 CABLE FULLY RATED 30V" as seen in the photo, I would make damn sure MY COMPANY NAME would also be printed ON the cable.
The cable is someone else's ordinary, inexpensive cable.
One US audio/video cable provider sells unbranded bulk cables. So that home theater installer companies can wire a home with what appears to be custom cable rather than the budget cable that it really is.
Yeah.
Siltech-Crystal Cable conductor/core is manufactured at an advanced specialist lab I think in Germany (definitely though somewhere in Europe) so could still be deemed as internally manufactured as no other use this process.
Others I know of include Yter,Supra,Nordost,Dynamique Audio.
Some of the other known brands probably do, great if anyone knows for sure (sadly I do not know myself).
But then this also depends upon the cable function, doubt many of these fully make their own usb cables as an example.
Cheers
Orb
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I'm reminded of the company that put a cheap off-the-shelf CD player inside a fancy case. They got caught, too.
That is atypical, however. Seldom do such makers have to face the music (pun intended).
Early in my turntable manufacturing endeavors, I used a controller designed by a guy who used a switching power supply. I went along even though I much prefer to see iron inside. Anyway, I felt that I should use a domestic power supply, at the very least. The problem was finding a maker. Finally, I called an audio manufacturer who has great knowledge in that area. (You would all know his name.) He wasn't interested in making it, but he offered advice. "Buy a Chinese one, remove the Chinese labels, and put your name on it. Everyone does that." he said. "Everyone?" I asked. "Pretty much." he replied. I went with one made in Taiwan with the labels intact. My new designer makes the power supply, and it isn't a switching type, so that's a resolved issue for me.
I have a friend who makes cables. He fully discloses the origin of his parts, keeps the prices in line, and concentrates on performance, rather than bling. His understated approach has followers, but nothing like some of the garden hose makers.
The question, "How much disclosure is needed to make money in audio?", is one I don't seem to be able to get a handle on, so I fully disclose. So do my friends, but we are small potatoes compared to some of those who do not. I know that it is the same with turntables because of some of the turntable motors I've seen, and what passes as speed control. I'm sure the problem spreads to speakers and amps, too.
That is atypical, however. Seldom do such makers have to face the music (pun intended).
Early in my turntable manufacturing endeavors, I used a controller designed by a guy who used a switching power supply. I went along even though I much prefer to see iron inside. Anyway, I felt that I should use a domestic power supply, at the very least. The problem was finding a maker. Finally, I called an audio manufacturer who has great knowledge in that area. (You would all know his name.) He wasn't interested in making it, but he offered advice. "Buy a Chinese one, remove the Chinese labels, and put your name on it. Everyone does that." he said. "Everyone?" I asked. "Pretty much." he replied. I went with one made in Taiwan with the labels intact. My new designer makes the power supply, and it isn't a switching type, so that's a resolved issue for me.
I have a friend who makes cables. He fully discloses the origin of his parts, keeps the prices in line, and concentrates on performance, rather than bling. His understated approach has followers, but nothing like some of the garden hose makers.
The question, "How much disclosure is needed to make money in audio?", is one I don't seem to be able to get a handle on, so I fully disclose. So do my friends, but we are small potatoes compared to some of those who do not. I know that it is the same with turntables because of some of the turntable motors I've seen, and what passes as speed control. I'm sure the problem spreads to speakers and amps, too.
This thread is much ado about nothing.
Most consumer product involve some degree of sub-contracted parts. Speakers brands commonly buy drives from Scanspeak and other specialists. Does that make Wilson better or worse than Magico? it's not unusual for amp out-source power supplies, transistors, etc. So should Pass (or your amp of choice) put an asterisk on their XS preamp? How about my iPhone? Apple out-source key parts (eg. Samsung & Sharp displays) and hire contract factories in China. Does that make Apple a "fake"?
I don't care who supplies the various parts as long as the end product has good sound quality, reliability, and price. I don't think it's a good idea to buy a components just because it uses ceramic boards, Vishay resistors, proprietary drivers, etc. There are many great sounding gear that use modest parts and/or good design. My old NAD 3020 and Futterman OTL monoblocks come to mind.
If this USB cable sounds good, then Entreq should get the glory. If it's overpriced and sounds bad, then savvy audiophiles should spread the word. But why talk about sound quality when it's more dramatic to rip apart the cable and call it a fake?
Most consumer product involve some degree of sub-contracted parts. Speakers brands commonly buy drives from Scanspeak and other specialists. Does that make Wilson better or worse than Magico? it's not unusual for amp out-source power supplies, transistors, etc. So should Pass (or your amp of choice) put an asterisk on their XS preamp? How about my iPhone? Apple out-source key parts (eg. Samsung & Sharp displays) and hire contract factories in China. Does that make Apple a "fake"?
I don't care who supplies the various parts as long as the end product has good sound quality, reliability, and price. I don't think it's a good idea to buy a components just because it uses ceramic boards, Vishay resistors, proprietary drivers, etc. There are many great sounding gear that use modest parts and/or good design. My old NAD 3020 and Futterman OTL monoblocks come to mind.
If this USB cable sounds good, then Entreq should get the glory. If it's overpriced and sounds bad, then savvy audiophiles should spread the word. But why talk about sound quality when it's more dramatic to rip apart the cable and call it a fake?
I still argue no mfgr. draws their own wire. Very expensive equipment. Rather said cable company custom orders the raw wire to spec and does their own dialecteic/config in house for the major hi end brands. Think OEM custom wire for the raw wire, not available for the low volume consumer.
Albedo Cable from Poland does:
www.albedo-silver.com/index_en.html
Not only their cables are 100% made in house (they start with silver pellets), sound great, but are also cheap as chips in the realms of the current cable world. Their cheapest, all silver, all in-house made IC costs $150/1m !
Like in the case of Lampizator, their advertising budget is almost zero which (to some degree) may explain their pricing model.
Technically the ones I named earlier do (especially for interconnects and speaker wires), but if being very specific Yter and Supra 100% do draw their own and is a creation from the ground up, Siltech/Crystal Cable require an advanced lab to do theirs so again special situation, Dynamique Audio background are specialists with silver and electroplating/anodizing baths/etc where their cables are pure silver (ok their cheaper products I assume must be OEM).
Another consideration beyond the cable function I just realised is the manufacturers' product range; situation could be they manufacturer core products/expensive range themselves and utilise OEM conductors drawn by global cable manufacturers (to their specification) such as Belkin or mil spec cable such as Allied Wire & Cable as an example for their lower/diverse purpose range.
Cheers
Orb
The conundrum is - if two cables are the same price, one is sourced in China and clearly cheap to source but has some modifications made to it by the manufacturer and they openly disclose that this is the case. The other is 100% made by the manufacturer with no bought-in components. If the first sounds better to you, which would you buy?
Hello,
PO Friberg who is not a wbf forum asked me to post his answer. Here it is :
Hello Mr Admin
First of all, sorry for my English. It have caused me a lot of problem more than one time, so I hope you check with me if something sounds totally crazy.
I see the thread " Entreq is fake" on WBF and now I quietly wonder, is this really OK?
The sad thing is that we never try to hide that we often use cables that already are in production ( many times for other applications than sound reproduction) if we find they have potential be good audio cables if we rebuild them.
We add / remove conductors, change on dielektrikum, , add our "drainwire system, match connectors so they fit the prestanda from the cable etc etc. until we have a product we like.
Why we do this way? Because there is unending of cables in production and if you know what you searching for, you always can find a cable that fit the spec you want and think is right start work with. This way allow us buy 20-30 m of a cable we think have potential be good and test it. Work with it, and test it in real life and if it not lives up to what we expect, we have not lost any big money. We can just go and test another until we have a cable that act as we want and we can stand for.
If we on the other hand ordered a cable by our spec from manufacture, we at least have to order 5000 m for get a reasonable price, and the risk that it don’t work as we want always are there.
But we also build some of our cables from scratch. And when it´s pure silver cables we always have to build from scratch, because there are very few silver cables on market.
I anyhow always stand for our products and the prestanda they give.
The USB cable they talk about on forums are at least 4-5 years old and buy in second hand. I´m sad it don’t work, but I don’t know what happen with it during the years.
It´s no doubt, Discover USB is a standard cable we rebuilt. Not the cheapest crack, that be said, but still a standard cable. We have added our drainwire system and changed some other details on it. The result has been a cable that has been popular for many years and many users have found it give a improvement in sound quality. The cost for it is in Scandinavia 1800 Sek ( around 225-250 USD.) Today I´m sure there are many other cable brand have at least same or even better sound quality. As I said, it´s developed some years ago and was one of the first USB cables on market.
It´s not something that have with this case to do, but today we have a USB cable in our assortment where we even build the contacts by our self.
Another thing that have been wrong caused of my bad English is that I many time use the slang word “copper sand” or just “sand” when talking about the mineral mix we use in our ground boxes.
We use a mineral mix and different metals, not sea sand or cat litter in the boxes.
I know it´s very dangerous use a language you are not 100% familiar with, so please, if something sounds crazy, please let me have a chance explain what I mean.
But in the end I ask my self again, Is this really a fair thread with this header?
Best
PO
PO Friberg who is not a wbf forum asked me to post his answer. Here it is :
Hello Mr Admin
First of all, sorry for my English. It have caused me a lot of problem more than one time, so I hope you check with me if something sounds totally crazy.
I see the thread " Entreq is fake" on WBF and now I quietly wonder, is this really OK?
The sad thing is that we never try to hide that we often use cables that already are in production ( many times for other applications than sound reproduction) if we find they have potential be good audio cables if we rebuild them.
We add / remove conductors, change on dielektrikum, , add our "drainwire system, match connectors so they fit the prestanda from the cable etc etc. until we have a product we like.
Why we do this way? Because there is unending of cables in production and if you know what you searching for, you always can find a cable that fit the spec you want and think is right start work with. This way allow us buy 20-30 m of a cable we think have potential be good and test it. Work with it, and test it in real life and if it not lives up to what we expect, we have not lost any big money. We can just go and test another until we have a cable that act as we want and we can stand for.
If we on the other hand ordered a cable by our spec from manufacture, we at least have to order 5000 m for get a reasonable price, and the risk that it don’t work as we want always are there.
But we also build some of our cables from scratch. And when it´s pure silver cables we always have to build from scratch, because there are very few silver cables on market.
I anyhow always stand for our products and the prestanda they give.
The USB cable they talk about on forums are at least 4-5 years old and buy in second hand. I´m sad it don’t work, but I don’t know what happen with it during the years.
It´s no doubt, Discover USB is a standard cable we rebuilt. Not the cheapest crack, that be said, but still a standard cable. We have added our drainwire system and changed some other details on it. The result has been a cable that has been popular for many years and many users have found it give a improvement in sound quality. The cost for it is in Scandinavia 1800 Sek ( around 225-250 USD.) Today I´m sure there are many other cable brand have at least same or even better sound quality. As I said, it´s developed some years ago and was one of the first USB cables on market.
It´s not something that have with this case to do, but today we have a USB cable in our assortment where we even build the contacts by our self.
Another thing that have been wrong caused of my bad English is that I many time use the slang word “copper sand” or just “sand” when talking about the mineral mix we use in our ground boxes.
We use a mineral mix and different metals, not sea sand or cat litter in the boxes.
I know it´s very dangerous use a language you are not 100% familiar with, so please, if something sounds crazy, please let me have a chance explain what I mean.
But in the end I ask my self again, Is this really a fair thread with this header?
Best
PO
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