Esoteric Audio Research 868L or 868LP tube preamplifier

[treitz3]

Does anyone here have experience with either of these tubed preamplifiers? If so, would you be so kind as to let me know what your thoughts are with them?

Thanks in advance and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all!

Tom

 

[Golum]

I don't have any direct experience but a good friend of mine just got 868L and he is super happy with it. Driving D class power amps and Marten Django XL speakers in the system. Very musical and engaging combo. Vs his previous SS preamp EAR made a quite significant positive difference.

 

[bazelio]

The EAR line stage is veiled and warm. What else would you like to know?

 

[Zero000]

I had an EAR 868PL. I didn't keep it long. It is as per post #3.

Used Telefunken PCC88 and Tesla PCC88. Tried some Siemens. None could help it.

The phono stage is the same, basically boring to listen to. Tried it with quite a few solid state amps and some huge 211 monoblocks.

Nothing could really help it.

Initially after purchase I did like it but the initial honeymoon was short lived.

Internally it uses cheapish components i.e. Radio Spares.

Not good for the price asked.

 

[treitz3]

No further questions. Thanks, that is all I needed to know.

Tom

 

[MPS]

Just a comment in general:
Telefunken PCC/ECC88 can sound bit flat in both positive and negative meaning of the word, if more warmth or body is required then Mullard (~196x) has been used with success. Same goes with ECC83 as well but here Tung-Sol (again ~196x) is also a "lively" sounding tube. Don't have much experience with Tesla though.
Tube rolling or cable dressing won't turn a device to something else but could be considered as spice to food, adjust to your liking.

I personally have yet to hear disappointing sound from EAR equipment and do think they present a good value but that's just my experience and opinion. As what comes to build quality and parts selection, well Tim is primary a amplifier designer, so I believe he build the sound by circuit and layout, not so much by fancy components. Then again the product quality matches the price reasonably well.

-my2c

 

[Zero000]

BTW you shouldn't really use 6.3V filament tubes in it. 7V PCC88 and not E88CC, ECC88 or ECC83.

The Tesla and Telefunken PCC88 sound fairly similar.

Tim doesn't believe in audiophile foo components.

Some people will like this preamp. Just because I didn't doesn't mean it's rubbish.

 

[bazelio]

I'd used 6922, 7308, and PCC88 in the 868. Nothing quite worked. The veil doesn't go away. I am of the opinion that this line stage IS rubbish.

 

[advanced101]

I own an 868PL. I use all three functions (SUT, Phono, Line). The guys above are right, the unit is a bit veiled and dark sounding. But, I really like it. I have the EAR 509 amps too. I have tried other SUTs, and phonostages but all in all, the tone of my stock unit with Tele tubes hits the spot for me. I listen to 50% Jazz, 40% Rock, 10% Classical. If I were a Classical listener this unit would be a big no no. Purists will say the preamp should impart as little character on the music as possible but I haven't been able to swap components (In a comparable price range) without getting the advantage of lifted veil while maintaining a tone that makes Jazz so enjoyable for me. As of right now Ill likely move up to the 912 in the Spring, if not sooner.

I have been swapping my Music First v2 SUT in an out of the system trying to replace to built in SUTs. Lifted veil, lack of tone and color. I prefer it with classical but not for rock or jazz.

The MSRP of the PL represents a reasonable value, IMHO. Buying a PL unit second hand would be an great value. I would loo elsewhere for just a line stage.

 

[MPS]

Haven't heard the 868. I base my opinion mainly on 912, 861 and 509 amps. Sonic character of a tube can be generalized, how it will suit individual system or person needs to be decided.
868 review

 

[bazelio]

The 912 simply integrates the same line stage circuit found in the 868. So if you've heard one then you've heard the other. The main (theoretical) sonic advantage of the 912 vs 868+88pb separates is the loss of an interconnect cable. That said, the 912 phono stage is slightly different from the 88pb's as the latter has a tube buffer that the former does not.

Tim dials in the "heart" via his transformers which he supposedly hand winds personally. It is what it is, and it's not "wrong" to like it. But veiled and saturated is the signature for better or worse.

Tubes: it's always the entire circuit that creates the sound. That said, I've not yet found a circuit based on the 6dj8/7dj8 family that I could live with long term. YMMV.

 

[Zero000]

For whatever reason, the 912 internal layout does look completely different to an 868. So although it is supposedly the same circuit, the parts and layout are very different.

I know that cos a 912 owner posted a pic in a British forum.

 

[bazelio]

Yes the board layout is different. I've been inside the 912 myself. There's not any difference in the sound that I could ever hear.

 

[Tangram]

Dusting off this thread, as I’ve owned an 868pl (which I use with an Allnic SUT) for about five years but recently started a thread asking for alternative tubed line stage/phono combos. I agree with Bazelio’s characterization of the EAR’s sound. It’s the same as what I heard.

I have a Miyajima EC-5 on loan for comparison and the sonic signatures are strikingly different. The EAR (using Amperex tubes) is indeed dark and veiled (in the midrange), with a punchy, saturated sound that to my ears has just the right amount of detail. Bass is superb. The Miyajima has a much, much lighter touch and subdued dynamics. It’s been described to me as airy, but it could also be described as lean. Fine detail (mouth on sax reeds, that sort of thing) comes out in the EC-5, but not on the EAR, regardless of SUT setting. But the biggest difference is in bass response - the Miyajima doesn’t have any! It was like I’d installed another set of speakers.

These two line stage/phono combos are similar on paper but are voiced at opposite ends of the spectrum. I’m 80% rock/folk and 20% jazz. My classical record collection is a rounding error. At least between these two options, the EAR is best-suited for my tastes in music and sound. Is the Miyajima voiced for Japanese tastes in gear and sound? I have no idea, but it isn’t for me. The additional detail isn’t worth giving up the very pleasant bass of the EAR.

 

[bazelio]

You might really like the EAR 88PB directly in to your amplifier (unless you need to switch between multiple sources). I ran the 88PB this way (no other preamp) in a second system for many years, and it worked quite well. The 88PB is a nice phono stage. If you needed to switch between sources, you could use the 88PB into an Emia silver AVC. This would leave you with the EAR sound you like, better bass (by a lot), and more detail.

Just a thought.

 

[Tangram]

I’ve had the same thought. I will confess that having a remote on the 868 is nice. Does the 88pb have one? Website doesn’t say.

 

[bazelio]

No remote on the 88PB. If you're going to consider it, let me know. I will probably sell mine as I converted to all-digital in my second system and don't need a second phono anymore.

 

[sparkie]

Does anyone here have experience with either of these tubed preamplifiers? If so, would you be so kind as to let me know what your thoughts are with them?

Thanks in advance and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all!

Tom

I did get one of those sent to me for modifications. The customer said it was "lifeless". I don't build preamps and he bought this one to replace his solid state Denon preamp after he fell in love with the tube amp he bought from me.

I see why he says that. All metal film construction = sterile sound for tubes.
This one will be an easy mod. Just change the cathode resistors.
I'll have to order some Mills MRA5 resistors, as I don't always keep a lot of those in stock.

Sometimes things need a woman's touch.

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good afternoon to you all. Just so you know, I ended up going a different route than this pre. This post was made back when I was looking for a replacement for my Dodd MLP pre that had served me well for years. I ended up getting a Canary Audio C-800 MKII that was modded by John, (when he was still alive....RIP brother).

Tom

 

[Tangram]

I did get one of those sent to me for modifications. The customer said it was "lifeless". I don't build preamps and he bought this one to replace his solid state Denon preamp after he fell in love with the tube amp he bought from me.

I see why he says that. All metal film construction = sterile sound for tubes.
This one will be an easy mod. Just change the cathode resistors.
I'll have to order some Mills MRA5 resistors, as I don't always keep a lot of those in stock.
View attachment 121574
Sometimes things need a woman's touch.

Mine doesn’t sound sterile at all! With Amperex Bugle Boys rolled in, I would call the sound “juicy.”