ET5 preamp break in

[thedudeabides]

Hi all,

Posting again and would appreciate any insight on the above.

After some 175 hours or so, unit seems "closed in" and somewhat lifeless and restricted from a tonal and dimensionality perspective. I'm aware that this unit has numerous teflon capacitors and that these caps need a minimum of 300 hours to 500 hours to "blossom" depending on various posts that I've read.

Would appreciate any personal experiences regarding this issue.

This is my third CJ pre, most current, prior to the ET5 purchase, being the 18LS, which I was happy with but decided to upgrade to the ET5.

System consists of MBL 116 speakers, Cary Audio 306 SACD CDP, Pass Labs X250.5 amp, DH Labs IC's and power cords, and Cardas Gold Ref power cords from my PLC and amp. Various isolation devices but principally the Maple Shade brass cones and the Michael Green clamp rack.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

GG

 

[LL21]

You've got a great system. I too have owned 3 CJ preamps 14l, ACT2 and now the GAT.

The CJ GAT did take a long time to fully break in. That said, it sounded very good out of the box...it improved steadily, had a dip in performance and then when it came back out...it really started to shine. That was around 375 hours if I recall...been a long while.

The only things, besides being patient, that I might recommend you consider are: 1) EAT tube damper 2) damping the chassis. Surprisingly, the GAT is much more sensitive to vibration than the older ACT 2. Perhaps it was the tube...all I can say is I have it now on HRS M3/Nimbus Couplers with 2 extra thick long HRS dampers, 1 Artesania damper and 2 Finite Elemente dampers (over the Perspex tube guards). And it all makes a difference with this one...barely had anything on the ACT2. d) Finally, the stock powercable is excellet and it beat many after-market cables...it took a Purist Audio Dominus or Ann Contego to better it.

Good luck with the burn-in and hope things works well for you.

 

[bgiliberti]

I have a Classic SE. it took 400 hours to be listenable, and about 1000 to really break in. I'd say it continued to marginally improve for another 1000 hours, but that may just have been me learning to listen for all the new details it was unveiling. Let me also say, while Teflon hell is no fun, it is well worth it. I would never want to go back to non-Teflon caps again. They are the only way to go as far as I am concerned. In fact, I am surprised that they have not been more universally adopted by high end manufacturers. They are startlingly better, noticeable even in my preamp, which has just a few under the hood compared to CJs top gear, like yours.

 

[thedudeabides]

Thank you both for the comments.

200 hours and patiently waiting. UGH!

LL, I will be installing a EAT ECC88, with their tube damper, after break in.

GG

 

[LL21]

Thank you both for the comments.

200 hours and patiently waiting. UGH!

LL, I will be installing a EAT ECC88, with their tube damper, after break in.

GG

Hi GG,

Let us know how it works out. BTW, you do know that you can buy just the EAT Tube damper without the EAT ECC88 tube, yes? Just checking...I have heard very good things about the EAT tube and imagine it performs very consistently...unlike NOS tubes where each pair is a bit different. That said, they are also very expensive.

If you wouldn't mind...would appreciate your thoughts on any comparison between the EAT Tubes and any other!

 

[mep]

Hi GG,

Let us know how it works out. BTW, you do know that you can buy just the EAT Tube damper without the EAT ECC88 tube, yes? Just checking...I have heard very good things about the EAT tube and imagine it performs very consistently...unlike NOS tubes where each pair is a bit different. That said, they are also very expensive.

If you wouldn't mind...would appreciate your thoughts on any comparison between the EAT Tubes and any other!

Why do you imagine that? As long as tubes are made by human hands, they will measure slightly or not so slightly different one from another. It's the nature of the tube beast. That's why critical application tubes were/are graded and matched. They all might meet the general specifications for their tube type, but there sure can be wide variations in performance while fitting inside the spec box.

 

[RogerD]

Teflon caps require 300 hours to start to open and 500 hours to stabilise. I agree that up to 1000 hours before they are 100 pct,but at 500 to 600 they are at 98 pct. The longer the breakin the better the sound,but most would not stand for such a long period.

In the words of one designer I know....despises teflon.....I love them.

 

[LL21]

Why do you imagine that? As long as tubes are made by human hands, they will measure slightly or not so slightly different one from another. It's the nature of the tube beast. That's why critical application tubes were/are graded and matched. They all might meet the general specifications for their tube type, but there sure can be wide variations in performance while fitting inside the spec box.

Well, I was guessing that buying brand new production line tubes made today at the level EAT is saying they are producing them (ie, super high quality, high spec) ought to be more consistent in results than buying a pair here and a pair there of 40-60 yr old tube stock from different vendors (which is how I have been doing it when trying to find these better quality NOS tubes). That said, the EAT tubes are quite expensive, so for now I have stuck with buying from recommended sources (Brent Jessee, Alfred Kayser in Canada, and 1-2 others).

 

[thedudeabides]

Roger,

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm at 300 now and the sound is still "closed in".

I am aware that one can buy the EAT damper. May purchase to try some NOS Westinghouse tubes a friend gave me.

Questions. Is this the "best" damper or is Herbies the one to buy? Can one remove the damper supplied with the EAT tube and reinstall on another tube?

Will install the EAT tube once fully, or almost fully broke in. At this point, I have no idea when that will be but I'm hoping the 500 hour mark is when the magic finally occurs.

And yes, the EAT ECC88 was pricey. $225. And I think I found the last one in the lower 48. Everyone else I've contacted said they are on a 6 to 8 month backorder with no word as to when they expect to have back in stock. Fortunately, the unit only requires one.

Will post impressions.

Thanks again for all the input.

Best,

GG

 

[bgiliberti]

There was some debate about this on another thread, but I think the general consensus was that you should leave it playing with the power amp off to speed up the Teflon breakin.

 

[thedudeabides]

That's exactly what I've been doing.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Gordon, congrats on the ET5!

 

[thedudeabides]

Steve,

We'll see if congratulations or deep buyers remorse is appropriate by the middle of next week.

Gordon

 

[MylesBAstor]

Steve,

We'll see if congratulations or deep buyers remorse is appropriate by the middle of next week.

Gordon

Gordon, sorry if I missed or forgot, but what else are you using with the preamplifier? Shouldn't be dark like you describe. There's an interaction somewhere

 

[thedudeabides]

Hi Myles,

Good to hear from you. See my initial post for ancillary gear.

Things were better tonight. Not dark per se but just "restricted".

Gordon

 

[RogerD]

Hi Myles,

Good to hear from you. See my initial post for ancillary gear.

Things were better tonight. Not dark per se but just "restricted".

Gordon

Be patient....you should have noticed the preamp was several steps up the ladder from the first listen,give it time.

 

[Marcus]

Hi GG,

Let us know how it works out. BTW, you do know that you can buy just the EAT Tube damper without the EAT ECC88 tube, yes? Just checking...I have heard very good things about the EAT tube and imagine it performs very consistently...unlike NOS tubes where each pair is a bit different. That said, they are also very expensive.

If you wouldn't mind...would appreciate your thoughts on any comparison between the EAT Tubes and any other!

EAT 6922 tubes are NOS not new production and are currently not available.

 

[MylesBAstor]

EAT 6922 tubes are NOS not new production and are currently not available.

Are you sure? They were temporarily out of product but I think the EATS are back in production now. I just got some ECC83s for my Doshi (without the damping rings) and they sound very good. Pricey though.

 

[thedudeabides]

I'm keeping track of the hours so others can hopefully use the info should they purchase this unit brand new.

Speaking with Jeff Dorgay, he described the break in as "coming out of the fog".

And yes Roger, several rungs is a good description. 325 to 350 seems to be the point at which "something" is starting to settle in.

Myles, if you get word on the EAT ECC88 availability, I'd appreciate a heads up.

Marcus, from what I've read, I was under the impression that EAT currently manufactures all their tubes and that they are not NOS, as in a tube that's been on the shelf for a very long time.

GG

 

[LL21]

EAT 6922 tubes are NOS not new production and are currently not available.

Marcus, from what I've read, I was under the impression that EAT currently manufactures all their tubes and that they are not NOS, as in a tube that's been on the shelf for a very long time.

GG

I was under the same impression. I thought I have seen EAT marketing materials which says they took over part of an existing Tesla tube factory to produce their own tubes, and that they are produced to much tighter tolerances than NOS tubes and to the original spec for 6922 tubes...hence that is why they advertise that new EAT 6922 tubes will last 50% longer.