Etsuro Urushi Gold Cartridge - The New "Gold" Standard

108CY

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2013
285
607
398
I have a Forsell Air Reference 2 Turntable, do you think it is a match for the Etsuro Urushi Gold? Please advise?

I have tried the Gold with the forsell on a few occasions now at its a great match indeed the combination has a great midrange with lots of authority considering the for sell does not major in the department. The gold seems to bring a sense of solidity to the party.
 

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
The Etsuro step up is a nice one, I used it for a time on my Etsuro Cobalt blue cartridge,
but I felt that the Etsuro step up is a little bit compromising the quality of the Etsuro Gold.
Comparing the Etsuro Step Up with the direct connection to my Boulder 2008 some details over all were missing,
on the other hand it became obvious, that the Etsuro carts like to be connected to a step up, the energy flow is more authentic.

I tried the 26db NAT step up, which was ok, but I preferred the Etsuro. Than I got access to the Phasemation T-1000 step up, which I really liked, so I decided to order the Phasemation T-2000 step up.

The comparison between Boulder 2008 direct connection (30ohm or 40ohm impedance) and the T-2000 going into Boulder 2008 MM had a clear winner. The T-2000 improved the performance of the Boulder in many ways and demonstrated the capability of the Gold in a way, I was not aware before.

As I like in my current system tubes as source, I exchanged the Boulder 2008 with an Allnic H-7000v. The result is the same, the T-2000 is a much better match to the Gold, than the internal Allnic step up.

View attachment 75791 View attachment 75792
What cables were you using between the SUTs and phono stages?
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,437
2,383
480
Cologne, Germany
What cables were you using between the SUTs and phono stages?
This cable is not finally decided.

When using a SUT, the cartridge will see the capacity of the cable between SUT and Phonopre multiplied by the factor of the SUT. Depending on the cable in use, higher ratio step ups, like 30x often sound compromised /distorted.

Jonathan Carr gave some background in this thread:

Currently I have different cables from Wireworld available, as you can buy them in the same specification, just with different materials for the wires. Currently I like the OCC7N Copper version. My cables are currently 1m or 1,5m long.

I have just ordered the same cables in 0,5m length to get a better capacity matching (and to hear, if my my set up is sensible for this change), maybe in 0,5m length the pure silver version will be the better fit. We will see.

I do not have the Allnic in use too long.

The Boulder 2008 was connected with the Phasemation T-2000 with a Phasemation CC-100R RCA => XLR cable,
designed with a dedicated low capacity for this purpose.

The AXIOM Tonearm in use has going through wiring from Cartridge to XLR, using Kondo silver wiring.
From there I like to try the Wireworld pure Silver cable as well.

A recommended start cable in my SUT trials is always the old SME standard tonearm cable, like supplied with SME 3012R.
This RCA => RCA cable does also work fairly good between Step up and PhonoPre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lagonda

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
This cable is not finally decided.

When using a SUT, the cartridge will see the capacity of the cable between SUT and Phonopre multiplied by the factor of the SUT. Depending on the cable in use, higher ratio step ups, like 30x often sound compromised /distorted.

Jonathan Carr gave some background in this thread:

Currently I have different cables from Wireworld available, as you can buy them in the same specification, just with different materials for the wires. Currently I like the OCC7N Copper version. My cables are currently 1m or 1,5m long.

I have just ordered the same cables in 0,5m length to get a better capacity matching (and to hear, if my my set up is sensible for this change), maybe in 0,5m length the pure silver version will be the better fit. We will see.

I do not have the Allnic in use too long.

The Boulder 2008 was connected with the Phasemation T-2000 with a Phasemation CC-100R RCA => XLR cable,
designed with a dedicated low capacity for this purpose.

The AXIOM Tonearm in use has going through wiring from Cartridge to XLR, using Kondo silver wiring.
From there I like to try the Wireworld pure Silver cable as well.

A recommended start cable in my SUT trials is always the old SME standard tonearm cable, like supplied with SME 3012R.
This RCA => RCA cable does also work fairly good between Step up and PhonoPre.
If Carr is correct than the cartridge would see a capacitive loading by a 50pf cable on the secondary of a 26 dB SUT of 10,000pf ! If this is treated as parallel capacitance then it pretty much doesn’t matter what the phono cable is. Something here doesn’t make sense.
 

dave slagle

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
56
153
105
myemia.com
Hey Miniguy,

keeping the math simple, all of the capacitances at the secondary of the SUT are in parallel and simply add and are reflected to the source by the turns ratio squared. In your case with a 1:20 and 100pF at the secondary the primary of the SUT appears as 40,000pF. You then add the tonearm cable 100pF in parallel to that for 40,100pF. This clearly shows that when it comes to cable capacitance it is the cable from the SUT to the phono stage that should be kept as low capacitance as possible. The rub here is since this is a high impedance node, shielding is also a must for quiet operation. Unfortunately shielding adds capacitance so you move a little forward in noise and a little back in HF extension. Keeping the cable as short as possible (0.5m or less) helps on both counts.

If you have a low impedance cartridge like the Etsuro Gold, this capacitance will not be much of a concern. However is you start to look at something like a 30? Allaerts things start getting "dangerously" close to the top end of the audio spectrum and something like a 1:14 (20dB) sut may be a better choice. This is not to say that the low impedance cartridges are not immune to this and a perfect example is the Audio Note Japan (Kondo) IO-Ltd. This cart has a 1? impedance and its low output of 0.15mV begs for a high step up ratio. A 1:100 is entirely possible but any secondary capacitance is now multiplied by 10,000X. Now the assumed 100pF becomes 1µF which again puts us in a grey area of acceptability.

I put the term "dangerously" in quotes above since it is really a subjective topic and what is acceptable to some is considered incompetent by others.

dave
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,437
2,383
480
Cologne, Germany
If Carr is correct than the cartridge would see a capacitive loading by a 50pf cable on the secondary of a 26 dB SUT of 10,000pf ! If this is treated as parallel capacitance then it pretty much doesn’t matter what the phono cable is. Something here doesn’t make sense.
I am not a technical expert in this regard,
but the sonic difference of cables between SUT and PhonoPre is different, than using the same cable between standard line components. You still can hear copper and silver, but other parameters have a more or less prominent influence.

Means, I am in a learning curve :)

The last years I mainly used Fidelity Research XF2 SUTs, they have attached cables, so no chance to experiment.
 

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
I am not a technical expert in this regard,
but the sonic difference of cables between SUT and PhonoPre is different, than using the same cable between standard line components. You still can hear copper and silver, but other parameters have a more or less prominent influence.

Means, I am in a learning curve :)

The last years I mainly used Fidelity Research XF2 SUTs, they have attached cables, so no chance to experiment.
There’s no question that the cable between SUT and phono stage can make a noticeable difference. But the various electrical parameters of the SUT can make it difficult to understand. A useful experiment would be to compare two significantly different lengths of the same cable.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,368
4,410
There’s no question that the cable between SUT and phono stage can make a noticeable difference. But the various electrical parameters of the SUT can make it difficult to understand. A useful experiment would be to compare two significantly different lengths of the same cable.
in my situation, i had Dave Slagle supply the 2 sets of short (18" long) sets of interconnects between my CS Port phono and the 2 SUT's. so they are purpose made for that spot, and that particular SUT.

the tech of this is way beyond me, but i like what i hear.
 
Last edited:

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
in my situation, i had Dave Slagle supply the 2 sets of short (18" long) sets of interconnects between my CS Port phono and the 2 SUT's. so they are purpose made for that spot, and that particular SUT.

the tech of this is way beyond me, but i like what i hear.
What’s the capacitance of those 18” cables if you were told and did you try much higher capacitance cable in the same spot?
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,437
2,383
480
Cologne, Germany
in my situation, i had Dave Slagle supply the 2 sets of short (18" long) sets of interconnects between my CS Port phono and the 2 SUT's. so they are purpose made for that spot, and that particular SUT.

the tech of this is way beyond me, but i like what i hear.
Best way to go :)
I used with success the Phasemation RCA => XLR cable to connect the Phasemation T-2000 SUT with my Boulder Phono.
A Phasemation RCA => RCA Phonocable should be the next logical step, at least to compare.
 

Bobvin

VIP/Donor
Jun 7, 2014
1,659
2,930
615
Portland
www.purewatersystems.com
in my situation, i had Dave Slagle supply the 2 sets of short (18" long) sets of interconnects between my CS Port phono and the 2 SUT's. so they are purpose made for that spot, and that particular SUT.

the tech of this is way beyond me, but i like what i hear.
Mike, this is good to know. I thought perhaps you were using another pair of LFD between SUT and CSPort.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike Lavigne

dave slagle

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
56
153
105
myemia.com
Single-ended? And if so what config - coax or twin core with shield?
Yes SE. Twisted pair with shield. Nothing boutique just 0.9999 mined Jupiter silver and cotton and air as the main dielectric. The pedigree of the silver seems to be more important than the actual purity percentage. The 0.9999 purity sourced from a mine sounds better than 0.99999 with an unknown provenance. Listening to a gold conductor in that position at the moment and I am liking it.
 

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
Yes SE. Twisted pair with shield. Nothing boutique just 0.9999 mined Jupiter silver and cotton and air as the main dielectric. The pedigree of the silver seems to be more important than the actual purity percentage. The 0.9999 purity sourced from a mine sounds better than 0.99999 with an unknown provenance. Listening to a gold conductor in that position at the moment and I am liking it.
Thanks. What’s the conductor gauge and is the shield connected on one or both ends?
 

dave slagle

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
56
153
105
myemia.com
#28 if you terminate the shield on both ends it becomes a ground. The shield gets terminated to the low impedance (SUT) side of the IC.

dave
 

miniguy

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2013
437
168
350
San Diego area
#28 if you terminate the shield on both ends it becomes a ground. The shield gets terminated to the low impedance (SUT) side of the IC.

dave
If I run a twisted pair with shield connected only at the SUT secondary end, it picks up low level hashy random noise you can hear thru the speakers. If the shield is connected at both ends (so essentially becomes part of the return) or I use a coax, there is no noise. Maybe has something to do with the way the SUT grounds behave with the system grounds.
 

dave slagle

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
56
153
105
myemia.com
The number 1 rule I have found with phono is whatever gets you quietist is best. This is decidedly not a case where the same thing works the same in every circumstance so often it is best to do what works rather than what is "supposed to work".
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing