Exotic cantilever materials - worth it?

[martin778]

I'm looking around for an upgrade to my current Skyanalog P-1 cartridge and been looking at their higher-end offerings as to me my ears it sounds like they offer quite a decent bang for the buck.
However, I'm unsure about their fancy cantilever materials like sapphire, ruby or diamond - would any of these offer a substantial and truly audible upgrade over boron, which commonly found in higher end cartridges?

I'm most concerned about the longevity and fragility of such cantilevers, an aluminum or boron cantilever should be rather easy to get replaced but what about the others. It's a case of better safe than sorry before buying something in the likes of the 3 grand Skyanalog REF and in case something goes wrong (God forbid!) or simply after it wears out and not being able to get it fixed.

 

[Holmz]

I am not sure that the material is magical.
It might be, but the shape can definately affect the stiffness. For instance a tube is stiffer than a rod.

 

[Balle Clorin]

If you look ok at the material properties of Boron, sapphire, ruby and diamond on Obray site it is clear that diamond and boron are best and ruby/sapphire not as good. I you cannot afford diamond stick with boron , and forget the others.

 

[Balle Clorin]

For instance a tube is stiffer than a rod.

Interesting, I see that it can be in some cases, as when the diameter is larger and metal cross section the same.

 

[italia]

I would argue the best cantilever is no cantilever, evidenced by the fabulous cantileverless cartridges made by Ikeda in the late 80's for Jeff Rowland, and for Ikeda brand through some of the 90's.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

the most exciting news in the last few years about cantilever design is the diamond unified stylus/cantilever which removes the need for a glue joint between the two pieces and improves dynamics and reduces distortion. here are two cartridges using it. a few more might be using it going forward. i own the MC-2022 and it is remarkably linear.

Audio-Technica Celebrates 60 With the Explosive Sounding AT-MC2022

unparalleled transparency, speed and true detail

trackingangle.com

https://ds-audio.biz/cms/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/HFN-Oct-DS-Audio-Grand-Master-Extreme_Reprint-LOW.pdf

 

[Holmz]

Interesting, I see that it can be in some cases, as when the diameter is larger and metal cross section the same.

The Accuphase AC2 is tubular and from the 80s.
I suspect that there are a lot more tubular cantilevers.

Boron is stiff, and Beryllium is stiff and light.
Magnesium is also light.
So for the same mass, the cross sectional area can be greater than for say aluminium.

There is also resonance and dampening, but I suspect that most cantilevers rely on dampening to be happening in the cart itself.

I’d just pick one, and go with it.

 

[Balle Clorin]

All aluminium made are tube, all present in Boron are solid, and 90% with glued diamond , To bad effective masses are not published anymore, so we really do not know which is stiffest an which has lowest mass. But estimate can be made from these data..

Stylus Cantilever for Analog Record | Orbray Co., Ltd.

In 6mm cantilever the mass of Boron is 78% of a 0.5mm aluminium one. But Boron in almost 10 times stiffer.. but the aluminium shape is 6 times stiffer so the stiffness gain for Boron is only 1.7 times Aluminium… I guess that gives a higher vibration mode by the square root , or 29%..

 

[Paul1960]

I'm looking around for an upgrade to my current Skyanalog P-1 cartridge and been looking at their higher-end offerings as to me my ears it sounds like they offer quite a decent bang for the buck.
However, I'm unsure about their fancy cantilever materials like sapphire, ruby or diamond - would any of these offer a substantial and truly audible upgrade over boron, which commonly found in higher end cartridges?

I'm most concerned about the longevity and fragility of such cantilevers, an aluminum or boron cantilever should be rather easy to get replaced but what about the others. It's a case of better safe than sorry before buying something in the likes of the 3 grand Skyanalog REF and in case something goes wrong (God forbid!) or simply after it wears out and not being able to get it fixed.

I own the Skyanolog Ref and the Skyanalog G2. The G2 is fine and probably a nice upgrade from your P1 but it wasn't one of my favorite cartridges. However the Ref is quite special. I bought mine used with less than 20 hours on it and for a long time it was my go to cartridge and kind of a toss up between preferring that or the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze or the Koetsu Black Goldline. However the cartridge that I have been using exclusively for the last 9 months is a modified Denon DL-103 that I bought from Andy Kim https://phonocartridgeretipping.com/. He takes a used Denon DL-103 and replaces the diamond and cantilever with his own micro-ridge diamond and a boron cantilever. Cost is about $600. For my tastes it simply blows the other 9 or 10 cartridges I own out of the water.

Anyhow, that the direct answer to your question is everything matters and will probably sound different but not everything is better. What sort of sound you prefer is largely a matter of taste. But it makes sense that a very rigid, stiff, lightweight and non-resonant cantilever is going to outperform something like aluminium. And the one piece diamond stylus/cantilever has gotten pretty universal acclaim but they are very expensive to buy and then to replace.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I own the Skyanolog Ref and the Skyanalog G2. The G2 is fine and probably a nice upgrade from your P1 but it wasn't one of my favorite cartridges. However the Ref is quite special. I bought mine used with less than 20 hours on it and for a long time it was my go to cartridge and kind of a toss up between preferring that or the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze or the Koetsu Black Goldline. However the cartridge that I have been using exclusively for the last 9 months is a modified Denon DL-103 that I bought from Andy Kim https://phonocartridgeretipping.com/. He takes a used Denon DL-103 and replaces the diamond and cantilever with his own micro-ridge diamond and a boron cantilever. Cost is about $600. For my tastes it simply blows the other 9 or 10 cartridges I own out of the water.

Anyhow, that the direct answer to your question is everything matters and will probably sound different but not everything is better. What sort of sound you prefer is largely a matter of taste. But it makes sense that a very rigid, stiff, lightweight and non-resonant cantilever is going to outperform something like aluminium. And the one piece diamond stylus/cantilever has gotten pretty universal acclaim but they are very expensive to buy and then to replace.

Thats why i love zyx universe/ airy3 ( low copper version) boron + microridge. For me most musical uncoloured cartridge.If I find any used ones on the internet, I put them in my drawer for later.

 

[Dogberry]

I would argue the best cantilever is no cantilever, evidenced by the fabulous cantileverless cartridges made by Ikeda in the late 80's for Jeff Rowland, and for Ikeda brand through some of the 90's.

Or even the Decca cartridge design. All their old quirks disappeared in John Wright's modern versions, and the London Reference will give any MC cartridge a run for its money.

 

[DasguteOhr]

If you look ok at the material properties of Boron, sapphire, ruby and diamond on Obray site it is clear that diamond and boron are best and ruby/sapphire not as good. I you cannot afford diamond stick with boron , and forget the others.

It depends on the diamond cut and the suspension material. A small example is Ortofon. I've had many: the A 90, MC 7500, Heritage Series, Cadenza, and Veros and SPU. The best sounding was the Ortofon Vienna rubin cantilever with Fritz Gyger diamond. If you value natural sound, go for it.
It is about setting the resonance frequency in a range where it is as inaudible as possible

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I would argue the best cantilever is no cantilever, evidenced by the fabulous cantileverless cartridges made by Ikeda in the late 80's for Jeff Rowland, and for Ikeda brand through some of the 90's.

I still have my Rowland Complement

 

[italia]

I still have my Rowland Complement

Me too!