Expanding the High End audio market - good idea? How?

[KPC]

I was wondering how to expose more people to high end audio. Then I took a step back and wondered is this expansion a good idea in the first place.

Should we expand the audiophiles market?
Generally speaking, if you expand the market, manufacturers can drive down costs through economies of scale and then pass along savings to the customers. However, if a manufacturer’s production doesn’t increase (like a 1 man shop) in the midst of higher product demand the prices may be driven up.

How to expose more people aka the general public to high end audio products?
If more people were exposed to hearing a good/great sounding audiophile system, sales would increase. Marketing by manufacturers and retailers has limited results, with seemingly most efforts marketed exclusively to audiophiles rather than the general public.

Audio shows are likely the best marketing tool we have today to expose high end to the general public, but again most attendees are already audiophiles. But a common problem w audio shows is that sonic performance suffers from a poorly optimize hotel rooms. Hard to promote your audio product if the room makes it sound meh.

One idea I’ve been chewing on is to create at least 3 rooms whose dimensions are optimize for audio. Then give the audio manufacturer/retailer enough time to optimize the room setup for the best presentation they can construct. Each room would be for a different retailer/manufacturer so the event won’t seem like a company promoting their own goods but rather the event will promote high-end audio in general. Then you can market to the general public such as “Free event - Audio that touches your soul”, put positive testimonials in the ads “I didn’t know how magical audio can sound...”.
These rooms should be located in large potential markets such as NYC or LA. Different manufacturers/retailers should be rotated/changed periodically (monthly/quarterly) to keep a refresh public appearance and encourages repeat visits which often leads to further sales.
Who’s going to finance these optimized rooms and marketing costs I have not determined, nor have I figured out yet who’s going to drive this through. But I am confident that sales for the high end audio would increase dramatically/significantly.
Any other ideas?

 

[KeithR]

by making more $500k speakers, $250k amps, and $30k cables of course. don't forget the $20k cartridge either.

 

[asiufy]

Most other industries have an organization that's supposed to care for its common interests and its development. There's no such thing in high-end audio. It's every manufacturer for himself. And with the size of individual manufacturers these days, it's very hard to do any REAL marketing, the kind that will make a difference and introduce the whole concept of "proper audio" to a wider audience.
We're now a generation or two behind, where people simply do not KNOW better sound exists, and if they acknowledge it exists, it's immediately branded a joke, "snake oil", for "audiofools".
Again, no single manufacturer (today) in audio can change that.
When a new video "standard" or "feature" is foistered upon us, there's a single, unified message, extolling its virtues. So we all line up like lemmings to buy that "1080", then "4K", then "8K", and so on...
So, unless the industry gets together and creates a unified message, I don't see any sizable expansion to our hobby.

BTW, I just read today a review of Apple's new over-the-ear wireless headphones. All of $550. The reviewer noted how incredibly better it sounded than just about every other phone he's heard... Yet, he kept repeating "but it's $550"...

 

[KeithR]

what about SACD and DVD-A @asiufy

 

[Elliot G.]

Most other industries have an organization that's supposed to care for its common interests and its development. There's no such thing in high-end audio. It's every manufacturer for himself. And with the size of individual manufacturers these days, it's very hard to do any REAL marketing, the kind that will make a difference and introduce the whole concept of "proper audio" to a wider audience.
We're now a generation or two behind, where people simply do not KNOW better sound exists, and if they acknowledge it exists, it's immediately branded a joke, "snake oil", for "audiofools".
Again, no single manufacturer (today) in audio can change that.
When a new video "standard" or "feature" is foistered upon us, there's a single, unified message, extolling its virtues. So we all line up like lemmings to buy that "1080", then "4K", then "8K", and so on...
So, unless the industry gets together and creates a unified message, I don't see any sizable expansion to our hobby.

BTW, I just read today a review of Apple's new over-the-ear wireless headphones. All of $550. The reviewer noted how incredibly better it sounded than just about every other phone he's heard... Yet, he kept repeating "but it's $550"...

very true and has been this way for ever. The Industry is incapable for cooperating, many have tried , all have failed. By raising the level all boats float a concept that is missed by Audio.

 

[Elliot G.]

very true and has been this way for ever. The Industry is incapable for cooperating, many have tried , all have failed. By raising the level all boats float a concept that is missed by Audio.

Most other industries have an organization that's supposed to care for its common interests and its development. There's no such thing in high-end audio. It's every manufacturer for himself. And with the size of individual manufacturers these days, it's very hard to do any REAL marketing, the kind that will make a difference and introduce the whole concept of "proper audio" to a wider audience.
We're now a generation or two behind, where people simply do not KNOW better sound exists, and if they acknowledge it exists, it's immediately branded a joke, "snake oil", for "audiofools".
Again, no single manufacturer (today) in audio can change that.
When a new video "standard" or "feature" is foistered upon us, there's a single, unified message, extolling its virtues. So we all line up like lemmings to buy that "1080", then "4K", then "8K", and so on...
So, unless the industry gets together and creates a unified message, I don't see any sizable expansion to our hobby.

BTW, I just read today a review of Apple's new over-the-ear wireless headphones. All of $550. The reviewer noted how incredibly better it sounded than just about every other phone he's heard... Yet, he kept repeating "but it's $550"...

BTW are you back?

 

[Lee]

Part of my job involves answering this question. At Nextscreen, we see three dominant customers segments: portable audio, small systems buyers, and traditional two channel. We have developed strategies on how to reach each of these segments that we are putting into play now.

In terms of expanding the market, three areas seem promising: portable audio, analog LP playback, and computer audio.

Overall we expect the traditional two channel market to grow alongside the luxury markets. Bain just released a very positive report on the luxury market showing lots of growth ahead.

 

[Elliot G.]

I was wondering how to expose more people to high end audio. Then I took a step back and wondered is this expansion a good idea in the first place.

Should we expand the audiophiles market?
Generally speaking, if you expand the market, manufacturers can drive down costs through economies of scale and then pass along savings to the customers. However, if a manufacturer’s production doesn’t increase (like a 1 man shop) in the midst of higher product demand the prices may be driven up.

How to expose more people aka the general public to high end audio products?
If more people were exposed to hearing a good/great sounding audiophile system, sales would increase. Marketing by manufacturers and retailers has limited results, with seemingly most efforts marketed exclusively to audiophiles rather than the general public.

Audio shows are likely the best marketing tool we have today to expose high end to the general public, but again most attendees are already audiophiles. But a common problem w audio shows is that sonic performance suffers from a poorly optimize hotel rooms. Hard to promote your audio product if the room makes it sound meh.

One idea I’ve been chewing on is to create at least 3 rooms whose dimensions are optimize for audio. Then give the audio manufacturer/retailer enough time to optimize the room setup for the best presentation they can construct. Each room would be for a different retailer/manufacturer so the event won’t seem like a company promoting their own goods but rather the event will promote high-end audio in general. Then you can market to the general public such as “Free event - Audio that touches your soul”, put positive testimonials in the ads “I didn’t know how magical audio can sound...”.
These rooms should be located in large potential markets such as NYC or LA. Different manufacturers/retailers should be rotated/changed periodically (monthly/quarterly) to keep a refresh public appearance and encourages repeat visits which often leads to further sales.
Who’s going to finance these optimized rooms and marketing costs I have not determined, nor have I figured out yet who’s going to drive this through. But I am confident that sales for the high end audio would increase dramatically/significantly.
Any other ideas?

ok good idea. Tell me how this will really work? Where are these rooms? How will build them? Who will maintain them? Who will demo them ands how? Who pays for the rooms and the gear? How do any of us make money from them?
I would love to do this but please tell me how it makes any sense?

 

[Lee]

I was wondering how to expose more people to high end audio. Then I took a step back and wondered is this expansion a good idea in the first place.

Should we expand the audiophiles market?
Generally speaking, if you expand the market, manufacturers can drive down costs through economies of scale and then pass along savings to the customers. However, if a manufacturer’s production doesn’t increase (like a 1 man shop) in the midst of higher product demand the prices may be driven up.

How to expose more people aka the general public to high end audio products?
If more people were exposed to hearing a good/great sounding audiophile system, sales would increase. Marketing by manufacturers and retailers has limited results, with seemingly most efforts marketed exclusively to audiophiles rather than the general public.

Audio shows are likely the best marketing tool we have today to expose high end to the general public, but again most attendees are already audiophiles. But a common problem w audio shows is that sonic performance suffers from a poorly optimize hotel rooms. Hard to promote your audio product if the room makes it sound meh.

One idea I’ve been chewing on is to create at least 3 rooms whose dimensions are optimize for audio. Then give the audio manufacturer/retailer enough time to optimize the room setup for the best presentation they can construct. Each room would be for a different retailer/manufacturer so the event won’t seem like a company promoting their own goods but rather the event will promote high-end audio in general. Then you can market to the general public such as “Free event - Audio that touches your soul”, put positive testimonials in the ads “I didn’t know how magical audio can sound...”.
These rooms should be located in large potential markets such as NYC or LA. Different manufacturers/retailers should be rotated/changed periodically (monthly/quarterly) to keep a refresh public appearance and encourages repeat visits which often leads to further sales.
Who’s going to finance these optimized rooms and marketing costs I have not determined, nor have I figured out yet who’s going to drive this through. But I am confident that sales for the high end audio would increase dramatically/significantly.
Any other ideas?

I politely differ on a couple of points here.

1. Shows can be an important resource but so can print magazines and online reviews. It may take a while for trade shows to return as well. How do you introduce product in the interim?
2. Hotel room acoustics should not be used as an excuse. Many manufacturer's keep the same rooms and bring in acoustic treatments to help. The best mfrs have no problem showcasing good sound. If they don't, I think that often says more about the mfr than the hotel room.
3. I think you would have a difficult time finding the investment capital for building these rooms. The better plan, imho, is highlight the higher quality dealers and let them show off their gear.

 

[Elliot G.]

I politely differ on a couple of points here.

1. Shows can be an important resource but so can print magazines and online reviews. It may take a while for trade shows to return as well. How do you introduce product in the interim?
2. Hotel room acoustics should not be used as an excuse. Many manufacturer's keep the same rooms and bring in acoustic treatments to help. The best mfrs have no problem showcasing good sound. If they don't, I think that often says more about the mfr than the hotel room.
3. I think you would have a difficult time finding the investment capital for building these rooms. The better plan, imho, is highlight the higher quality dealers and let them show off their gear.

For the most part I agree on the rooms. You can fix a room if given some previous knowledge and time. We have the same room at Axpona this year and so we do know what we need to make it better. The bigger issue is we aren't given more than one day to get everything in the room, unpack it, dispose of the crates and boxes, get it up and running and then if anytime left do some adjusting. No complaining its just a lot of work and it does take time and effort. It might help if the show organizers could make some deal with the companies that make acoustic treatments and rent some gear that could be onsite that would make everyone's life easier. The rooms certainly cost enough.

 

[PeterA]

what about SACD and DVD-A @asiufy

Keith, Don't forget MQA that was trumpeted by Harley in TAS and perhaps in Stereophile. I don't know if BestBuy promoted it. What happened?

 

[microstrip]

(...) So, unless the industry gets together and creates a unified message, I don't see any sizable expansion to our hobby. (...)

The stereo industry can't have an unified message. Our hobby is currently a forest with an immense variety of trees. Stereo consumers can't be educated - how do you explain them that they are buying analog record players to play digital sourced LPs?

IMHO the situation of the hobby at the end of 2019 was better than most people figure - although many people in the industry are now going through hards moments due to the Covid induced crisis.

 

[Barry2013]

As Bonzo and others have commented previously the economics of the audio industry are crazy and I sometimes wonder how it survives.It really is tough for manufacturers.
I am pretty sure in my mind that more cooperation is needed to grow the market and that it may only be possible if sufficient numbers of the bigger players can put together some initiatives which in time can be more widely supported.
But I do not in anyway underestimate the problems.

 

[the sound of Tao]

This pursuit requires crazy investments in money and time to make sense of it. So are we even sure that next gen will have any real interest or that we can somehow convert them into it. This isn’t exactly a day trip to a spa. To justify any of this is reasonably a life commitment.

Are the inherent drivers and the essential values of the generations that come simply different and not even necessarily a good fit for this intensive, expensive platform that many of us clearly spend inordinate parts of our life involved in. I’m not saying I know, or trying to put a dampener on the notion that this industry (and more importantly) this pursuit can grow... I am asking though are we continuing to do to that dead horse what we seemingly are always driven to do?

I suppose some of the traditional triggers might also not be out there and the disappearing bricks and mortar and generally decreasing opportunities to connect people to the hiend experience can be part of it. Those pivotal moments that help initiate people into the pursuit might factor and seasonal trade shows might offset this partially... but the big question is can the gens that come actually be converted long term into this game?

Is it something that simply doesn’t (or can’t) connect with their key drivers in their life... for life. Do they even need high fidelity to enjoy their music the way we have been driven to? Maybe it’s not as relevant any more to those that come. Maybe their key interests need to be different for the world as it will be. Perhaps these are some questions worth asking to help understand what the next future of hifi might actually be.

 

[Kingrex]

Why would anyone care if high end audio expands or not. We are pretty much old and closing in on our final systems. So to speak. If the younger generation only wants a headphone into a portable player, then good for them. I don't see any reason to want to push my hobbies on others. If your a business Its a totally different story. Especially if your a limited product offering of luxury items. But then again there is always some person with massive capital and a desire to spend it on something. They will buy the limited luxury items. But if your business is diversified, you will follow the market that created capital. And maybe its headphones. Or a Bose Wavedream.

 

[Elliot G.]

This pursuit requires crazy investments in money and time to make sense of it. So are we even sure that next gen will have any real interest or that we can somehow convert them into it. This isn’t exactly a day trip to a spa. To justify any of this is reasonably a life commitment.

Are the inherent drivers and the essential values of the generations that come simply different and not even necessarily a good fit for this intensive, expensive platform that many of us clearly spend inordinate parts of our life involved in. I’m not saying I know, or trying to put a dampener on the notion that this industry (and more importantly) this pursuit can grow... I am asking though are we continuing to do to that dead horse what we seemingly are always driven to do?

I suppose some of the traditional triggers might also not be out there and the disappearing bricks and mortar and generally decreasing opportunities to connect people to the hiend experience can be part of it. Those pivotal moments that help initiate people into the pursuit might factor and seasonal trade shows might offset this partially... but the big question is can the gens that come actually be converted long term into this game?

Is it something that simply doesn’t (or can’t) connect with their key drivers in their life... for life. Do they even need high fidelity to enjoy their music the way we have been driven to? Maybe it’s not as relevant any more to those that come. Maybe their key interests need to be different for the world as it will be. Perhaps these are some questions worth asking to help understand what the next future of hifi might actually be.

My 40 plus years of audio experience have taught me that is all about the experience and that requires exposure. I don't think anyone needs High End audio. I believe this is very much the same type of experience as trying really great food, wine, clothing, cars etc. If you never have the experience you never know that you are missing something. I have over the years blown many a customers mind with a demo that they never thought was possible. This is both a two channel and Home theater event and works with both. The issue has been and still is how do we get this experience to more humans? The fact is I don't know how to do this with an affordable solution. I think if we knew how we would have done it already. Audio is a very undercapitalized industry. There are very few BIG companies with large promotional budgets. Audio as an Industry does a horrible job of cooperating to promote the big picture and to me its here that it fails the worst. There are two many different voices with no common theme or direction. Lots of competition of products, reviewers, magazines, shows but virtually nothing doing to promote the big picture. We have no TV Shows, No celebrity Chefs. no Audio QB's, No LeBron Audiophiles.
Without something to make our stuff cool and desirable it stays where it is.
People can watch people cooking 24 hours a day 7 days a week on a million platforms, we have Steve Guttenberg.
Sorry but that has to change if it is to grow.

 

[Ron Resnick]

On the trade industry association idea, I think it is interesting. But what would a high-end audio trade association do?

A real industry trade association requires office space, at least a couple of full-time staff people, public relations efforts, travel expenses, etc. Would each of the relatively large audio companies contribute a low five figure dollar amount annually? Would each of the relatively small audio companies contribute a four figure dollar amount annually?

Most trade associations exist primarily, in reality, to preempt and to co-opt the government regulators to which their respective industries are subject. Trade associations also often establish and promote common guidelines and specifications. How would these ideas apply to our industry?

Trade industry associations also seek to preserve their market segments and to expand into other segments. Would high-end audio companies really spend money to have a trade association produce and disseminate general pro-high-end audio advertising extolling the virtues and benefits of high-end equipment and systems?

To the manufacturers and dealers here, what specifically would you want a high-end audio trade association to seek to achieve?

 

[JayR]

IMO, affordability has an inverse relationship with the size of the customer base. I do not see how things can change for the better if the industry does not recognize that.

$5000/m cables, $125,000 speakers, $250,000 amplifiers... how many people can afford that? maybe The top 1% ? Out of that top 1%, how many are audiophiles? How many manufacturers/dealers are competing for the same slice of the pie? It makes it a difficult proposition at best as time goes on.

 

[asiufy]

what about SACD and DVD-A @asiufy

Those are formats. And again, due to lack of a leading industry body, they both died, and are niche now.

 

[chuck]

What is with all the whining? High end audio is in excellent shape. Look around at other industries and you see monopoly pricing everywhere. Not in audio. We have lots of small companies competing. There are no dominant players. Result: low barriers to entry, lots of innovation and choice. No trade associations, please! As Adam Smith famously wrote, trade associations only want to fix prices and stifle competition. People complain about the price but those prices are set by a competitive market and great sound can be had for less cost than ever before.