Finzi on vinyl What a fantastic recording

ulf

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My old vinyl friend Björn brought a completely unknown record to me to listen to
claming it was on TAS list
A unknown composer Gerald Finzi 1901.1956 an unknown orchestra and an unknown soloist
Peter Katin playing Grand Fantasia and Toccata for piano and orchestra
Newer heard a grand piano recorded with so realism and grandeur!
Especially the low register is fantastic.
Searching the net I found a used Lyrita vinyl. My Hanss Acoutic TT Simply Black Cantu’s arm and Miyajima
Mandate PU never sounded better. A joy!
 

DaveyF

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Finzi on the Lyrita label is indeed a joy. Great music and sound---and well deserving of being on the TAS list.
Most of the Lyrita LP's from that era are excellent recordings. The Malcolm Arnold is of course the best known.
Bax is also another favorite.
 

astrotoy

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Hp's listing of Lyrita records on his TAS Superdisc List was a revelation to me. In addition to wonderful sound, engineered and produced by the Decca greats (Wilkie, Dunkerley, Goodall, Harvey, Woolcock, Walker, etc) the label introduced to me the world of modern composers from the British Isles in addition to the big three, Elgar, Holst and Vaughan Williams.

There are only 100 records in their entire vinyl stereo catalogue, so it was pretty easy to collect them all. I started collecting Lyritas in the mid 80's and bought most of them new, either in London or when a couple of importers began bringing them into the US. They were all Nimbus pressings. I then bought all the Decca pressings (which were the first pressings) all used from British record shops and have a complete collection of those (all Lyritas up to 110 and 112,114,118,119.) They were the Lyritas that were released earlier than 1980 when Decca was sold to Polygram and moved their pressings to Holland. Richard Itter, the owner and founder of Lyrita, didn't like the quality of the Holland pressings and switched to Nimbus for the mastering and pressing of the records. He kept the Decca team to produce and engineer the records.

The Finzi recording Lyrita SRCS92 referred by the OP is not on the TAS SuperDisc list. However it well could have been reviewed in TAS, since they did reviews of quite a few Lyritas that didn't end up as SuperDiscs.

Here is a list of the Lyrita records which have appeared on the TAS list. The first notation is the last TAS issue they appeared (#TAS meant they were on the TAS website in 2005, when I did the list). The last listings are what pressings I have (Decca is the first, Nimbus is second, except for the highest numbers which were pressed after Decca moved their pressings to Holland and Lyrita switched to Nimbus, Lyrita is third - probably mastered by some other company and pressed by Nimbus). Musical Heritage Society issued remastered versions of some of the earlier Lyritas - they are generally much cheaper and easier to find. The Bax Sym 6 is listed in the TAS Super Disc in its MHS pressing. Not sure why, perhaps HP didn't have the original Lyrita pressing. The @ sign refers to the best of the best from the TAS Superdiscs.

#tas Lyrita SRCS033 Bliss Music for Strings Rignold (Decca, Nimbus) (MHS1251)

#7 Lyrita SRCS034 Holst Brook Green Suite Imogen Holst (Decca) (MHS1303)

#tas MHS 1198 Bax Sym 6 Del Mar (orig Lyrita SRCS35 Decca)

#73 Lyrita SRCS046 Still,R. Sym 3-4 Fredman/Goosens (Decca) (MHS 1482)

#tas Lyrita SRCS075 Finzi Intimations of Immortality Handley (Decca) (MHS3598)

#44 Lyrita SRCS079 Williamson Organ Con Williamson/Boult (Decca, Nimbus)

#tas Lyrita SRCS101 Rawsthorne PCon 1 Binns (Decca, Nimbus)

#tas @Lyrita SRCS109 Arnold Dances: English/Scottish 1-8 Arnold (Decca, Nimbus)
One of my all time favorite records, this is the most expensive of the Lyritas. The Nimbus pressing is wonderful, but the Decca is superior. Unfortunately there was a very late EMI pressing released near the end of the vinyl era for Lyrita which is distinctly inferior. My friend John Dunkerley engineered this recording.

#tas @Lyrita SRCS116 Maconchy Sym for Double String Orch Handley (Lyrita)

#tas Lyrita SRCS124 Lloyd Sym 5 Downes (Nimbus)

#50 Lyrita SRCS125 Vaughan Williams Sons of Light Willcocks (Lyrita)

#tas Lyrita SRCS126 Leigh Harpsichord Concertino Pinnock (Nimbus)

Larry
 
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DaveyF

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Hp's listing of Lyrita records on his TAS Superdisc List was a revelation to me. In addition to wonderful sound, engineered and produced by the Decca greats (Wilkie, Dunkerley, Goodall, Harvey, Woolcock, Walker, etc) the label introduced to me the world of modern composers from the British Isles in addition to the big three, Elgar, Holst and Vaughan Williams.

Here is a list of the Lyrita records which have appeared on the TAS list. The first notation is the last TAS issue they appeared (#TAS meant they were on the TAS website in 2005, when I did the list). The last listings are what pressings I have (Decca is the first, Nimbus is second, except for the highest numbers which were pressed after Decca moved their pressings to Holland and Lyrita switched to Nimbus, Lyrita is third - probably mastered by EMI and pressed by Nimbus). Musical Heritage Society issued remastered versions of some of the earlier Lyritas - they are generally much cheaper and easier to find. The Bax Sym 6 is listed in the TAS Super Disc in its MHS pressing. Not sure why, perhaps HP didn't have the original Lyrita pressing.

#tas Lyrita SRCS033 Bliss Music for Strings Rignold (Decca, Nimbus) (MHS1251)

#7 Lyrita SRCS034 Holst Brook Green Suite Imogen Holst (Decca) (MHS1303)

#tas MHS 1198 Bax Sym 6 Del Mar (orig Lyrita SRCS35 Decca pr)

#73 Lyrita SRCS046 Still,R. Sym 3-4 Fredman/Goosens (Decca) (MHS 1482)

#tas Lyrita SRCS075 Finzi Intimations of Immortality Handley (Decca) (MHS3598)

#44 Lyrita SRCS079 Williamson Organ Con Williamson/Boult (Decca, Nimbus)

#tas Lyrita SRCS101 Rawsthorne PCon 1 Binns (Decca, Nimbus)

#tas @Lyrita SRCS109 Arnold Dances: English/Scottish 1-8 Arnold (Decca, Nimbus)
One of my all time favorite records, this is the most expensive of the Lyritas. The Nimbus pressing is wonderful, but the Decca is superior. Unfortunately there was a very late EMI pressing released near the end of the vinyl era for Lyrita which is distinctly inferior. My friend John Dunkerley engineered this recording.

#tas @Lyrita SRCS116 Maconchy Sym for Double String Orch Handley (Lyrita)

#tas Lyrita SRCS124 Lloyd Sym 5 Downes (Nimbus)

#50 Lyrita SRCS125 Vaughan Williams Sons of Light Willcocks (Lyrita)

#tas Lyrita SRCS126 Leigh Harpsichord Concertino Pinnock (Nimbus)

Larry

Thanks, Larry. That's some excellent information.
 

ulf

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Thank you Larry
My friend Björn got 4000 classic vinyl records.when everybody switched to cd he continued with vinyl
And during the 90ties could buy old Decca etc for nothing,
I will ask him to bring som of his other Lyritas to me
 

astrotoy

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Thank you Larry
My friend Björn got 4000 classic vinyl records.when everybody switched to cd he continued with vinyl
And during the 90ties could buy old Decca etc for nothing,
I will ask him to bring som of his other Lyritas to me

That's wonderful. Great to have friends like him. For me, the mid to late 90's was a great time to buy classical vinyl (probably other genres also). London was full of vinyl shops and I would bring back two or three suitcases full of classical vinyl from our annual trips there (thanks to my very understanding wife.) I bought most of the Decca Lyritas for 1 to 10 GBP, usually 2-5GBP. Deccas and EMIs were very plentiful and those from the late 60's to early 80's were generally also very cheap. I even got a few for 50p. Today all but one store front for classical music are gone in London and that is just tucked into a small basement room in a pop/rock used record and CD store.

Larry
 

ulf

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Thanks daytona
Being on the best of the bunch list usally means high prices used.
Any on the classical list that has not sky high prices?
 

astrotoy

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Thanks daytona
Being on the best of the bunch list usally means high prices used.
Any on the classical list that has not sky high prices?

You can start with the Columbia and EMI recordings, except for the the Partch Delusion of Fury (Columbia) and the Previn Shostakovich Sym 10 (EMI ASD 3911) and the Peter and the Wolf (EMI ASD299) which are all expensive in their originals. The Partch has a nice reissue for typical audiophile reissue prices. The later Deccas (SXL 6000 series) are usually pretty reasonable (except for the Oistrakh Hindemith/Bruch SXL6035). Most of the Lyritas except for the Arnold Dances (SRCS109) and the Maconchy Symphonies (SRCS116) are also reasonable. One note of caution. Many records on the new list were not HP's choices, if that matters to you. They were added by various others writing for TAS after his death. I have all the TAS Superdiscs that were ever listed up until his death (about 600 discs). Also there are many reissues that they have listed which are reasonable for audiophile reissue prices (around $35 per disc). Generally they are quite good - I especially like the Acoustic Sounds RCA reissues. In general, Speakers Corners reissues are very good, except for the earlier Decca reissues. When I interviewed John Dunkerley (long time classical Decca engineer) for my Decca book, he told me he didn't like the ones he heard (from the mid 2000's).

Larry
 
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ulf

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Thanks astrotoy for great suggestions
 

ulf

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My vinyl friend with all this records from company reference recordings came over with RR Malcom Arnold Overtures. One of the best records musical and soundwise I have ever heard. But over 250usd Used. Why can’t they make a reissue of this spectacular recording
 

tima

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My vinyl friend with all this records from company reference recordings came over with RR Malcom Arnold Overtures. One of the best records musical and soundwise I have ever heard. But over 250usd Used. Why can’t they make a reissue of this spectacular recording

They did!

store.acousticsounds.com/d/130309/Malcolm_Arnold_London_Philharmonic_Orchestra-Arnold_Overtures-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record
 

ulf

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Ok thanks tima. It is 34usd for a single vinyl.
I think the 250usd used is for the 45 rpm double vinyl originally issued.
45 rpm better in theory but have anyone compared
 

astrotoy

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If you have a R2R, Tape Project issued the Arnold Overtures in a fantastic 2 reel issue (just about one hour of music), their master is a direct copy of Keith Johnson's original master tape. Fabulous sound for $450 for the two reels, not much more than what an original costs. !5ips 2 track stereo, IEC EQ, 1/4" tape. The vinyl is also great.

Larry
 

tima

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You can start with the Columbia and EMI recordings, except for the the Partch Delusion of Fury (Columbia) and the Previn Shostakovich Sym 10 (EMI ASD 3911) and the Peter and the Wolf (EMI ASD299) which are all expensive in their originals. The Partch has a nice reissue for typical audiophile reissue prices. The later Deccas (SXL 6000 series) are usually pretty reasonable (except for the Oistrakh Hindemith/Bruch SXL6035). Most of the Lyritas except for the Arnold Dances (SRCS109) and the Maconchy Symphonies (SRCS116) are also reasonable. One note of caution. Many records on the new list were not HP's choices, if that matters to you. They were added by various others writing for TAS after his death. I have all the TAS Superdiscs that were ever listed up until his death (about 600 discs). Also there are many reissues that they have listed which are reasonable for audiophile reissue prices (around $35 per disc). Generally they are quite good - I especially like the Acoustic Sounds RCA reissues. In general, Speakers Corners reissues are very good, except for the earlier Decca reissues. When I interviewed John Dunkerley (long time classical Decca engineer) for my Decca book, he told me he didn't like the ones he heard (from the mid 2000's).

Larry

Just to note, EMI ASD 3911 is Previn/Shosty Symphony 13. It only came to mind because I bought a sealed Alto reissue recently and even that was $90.
 

Marcus

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My vinyl friend with all this records from company reference recordings came over with RR Malcom Arnold Overtures. One of the best records musical and soundwise I have ever heard. But over 250usd Used. Why can’t they make a reissue of this spectacular recording
Unfortunately all RR reissues are cut from digital masters and are sonically inferior to original LP’s. I mailed RR a while ago and asked why don’t they use analogue masters (where they exist) and the answer was “ too complicated”.
 

astrotoy

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Just to note, EMI ASD 3911 is Previn/Shosty Symphony 13. It only came to mind because I bought a sealed Alto reissue recently and even that was $90.
Tim, thanks for the correction on the Previn Shost Sym13. Gotten crazy expensive in the original (the original ED4 label - postage stamp with colored dog is more expensive and better than the later ED5 late big dog label). The Alto spreads the music over 3 sides, not a bad idea for such dynamic music.
 
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astrotoy

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Unfortunately all RR reissues are cut from digital masters and are sonically inferior to original LP’s. I mailed RR a while ago and asked why don’t they use analogue masters (where they exist) and the answer was “ too complicated”.

Paul Stubblebine has been doing the RR vinyl reissues from digital masters for several years. Most of them were mastered in digital, after Keith Johnson abandoned using his special focused gap tape recorder. However, the earlier issues (like Arnold Overtures) were originally analogue and the vinyl was from the analogue. When they were first being issued in vinyl, I bought them all, starting with the first Keith Johnson engineered recordings.

Next time I see Paul, I'll ask him why he went to the digital masters rather than the analogue original tapes (I haven't gotten one of the digital reissues that started analogue.) I don't know the condition of Keith's tape machine, but the tapes have to be played through his machine.

I am guessing that "too complicated" may mean Paul is currently set up to do his lacquer cutting with the digital system (Pacific Microsonics Model Two at 176/24). He still has been borrowing Keith's Tape machine when Tape Project has issued one of Reference's albums, including the Eugene Istomin Mozart Piano Concertos which was never issued on vinyl originally, but was recorded on tape. I have never seen Paul's lacquer cutting set up, so I don't know whether it is easy to switch between the tape and digital, since the lacquer cutting is not done at Reference AFAIK. Paul's old studio in the Mission (shared with Tape Project co-leader Michael Romanowski) has long been abandoned because of skyrocketing rents (Twitter is just behind them). Paul is semi retired so that may also be part of the issue.

A decade ago Paul cut a lacquer for me of the Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances which was made from the digital master (no analogue was done) which he used for the shootout he ran at my home, testing different A to D converters for my incipient massive ripping project. This was well after Reference had stopped issuing vinyl or recording in analogue. A few years later, they started their vinyl reissues of their digital albums, but no reissues of earlier vinyl records until more recently.

Larry
 
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microstrip

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( ...) A decade ago Paul cut a lacquer for me of the Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances which was made from the digital master (no analogue was done) which he used for the shootout he ran at my home, testing different A to D converters for my incipient massive ripping project. This was well after Reference had stopped issuing vinyl or recording in analogue. A few years later, they started their vinyl reissues of their digital albums, but no reissues of earlier vinyl records until more recently.

Larry

I would love to read about such a shootout of current top Hirez A to D converters in an audiophile environement. As far as I remember last time I read about such think was in WBF, when Bruce Brown picked a converter to digitize David Wilson tapes.

Can I ask you for a short explanation of the four geek like words of the second line of your signature - Dig Rip? Google only managed to confuse me! :confused:
 

Audiophile Bill

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I would love to read about such a shootout of current top Hirez A to D converters in an audiophile environement. As far as I remember last time I read about such think was in WBF, when Bruce Brown picked a converter to digitize David Wilson tapes.

Can I ask you for a short explanation of the four geek like words of the second line of your signature - Dig Rip? Google only managed to confuse me! :confused:

Bruce can actually send you a bunch of AD rips he has done with his different converters. He kindly did this for me before I got the Tascam.
 

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