Genesis Advanced Technologies SuperSub Subwoofer

Folsom

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Does the Funk have two subs? It's unclear but it would be good Gary points out for neutralizing self sound. They have WAY more power than the other ones, plenty to get it moving.

Servo isn't useful in the lowest frequencies. It doesn't do anything useful. It's good in the upper bass for sure but in the super depths it can't correct anything without overshoot. Any well programmed servo sub decreases the servo control as it goes into the 20's and 10's. Frankly almost all the sound coming out is second harmonic because the driver cone isn't big enough (and never will be).

I'd say power is more important than the cabinet when you're talking sub 20hz, at least for being sufficient of actual volume and not greatly reduced (which doesn't necessarily sound bad). Also important is thermal problems and the actual driver by Funk has serious thermal control which is necessary for continued play without loss of volume (especially with thousands of watts). The only one I know that goes farther maybe is by Pi.

Btw I know a few people who say the Funk is much better than Rythmik.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Thank you very much, Gary! Lloyd and I are looking at Nathan Funk's dual-opposed 18" drivers subwoofer. It is not servo-controlled, however.

I like the height of stacked 18" drivers. But a box with two pairs of dual-opposed 18" drivers . . . would be quite a box.
Yes! Thank you Gary! What a great post. I think a dual stack of 18.2 would weigh just under 400lbs, Ron! Per channel! That is some serious air movement! I have asked Nathan about servo...you should speak with him about it as well. His stats on the 2m open ground plane measurement are incredibly good...when he says he prefers not to use it, who am I to argue? His measurements are pretty spectacular.
 
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Folsom

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His woofers have the physical properties and power to overcome them so that there is no need. But they’re also actually used as subwoofers and not midbass.
 

LL21

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His woofers have the physical properties and power to overcome them so that there is no need. But they’re also actually used as subwoofers and not midbass.
Thank you! Very interesting.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Does the Funk have two subs? It's unclear but it would be good Gary points out for neutralizing self sound. They have WAY more power than the other ones, plenty to get it moving.

Servo isn't useful in the lowest frequencies. It doesn't do anything useful. It's good in the upper bass for sure but in the super depths it can't correct anything without overshoot. Any well programmed servo sub decreases the servo control as it goes into the 20's and 10's. Frankly almost all the sound coming out is second harmonic because the driver cone isn't big enough (and never will be).

I'd say power is more important than the cabinet when you're talking sub 20hz, at least for being sufficient of actual volume and not greatly reduced (which doesn't necessarily sound bad). Also important is thermal problems and the actual driver by Funk has serious thermal control which is necessary for continued play without loss of volume (especially with thousands of watts). The only one I know that goes farther maybe is by Pi.

Btw I know a few people who say the Funk is much better than Rythmik.
Amazing feedback once again Folsom. Thank you. The 18.2 is pretty much on the top of the list for me.
 

LL21

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This is a huge topic and I don't consider myself an expert, but I do have quite a lot of amateur experience and have helped set up and install subs in about a dozen rooms over the past 8 years or so.

That said, my experience and what I've read and learned has taught me that
1) Optimal low frequency speaker / sub placement is often rarely near where the main speakers are placed. In fact, if frequencies overlap from mains to subs, issues are usually exacerbated.
2) While the human auditory system can't localize frequencies <=80Hz we can feel pressure - waves of low frequency energy and subs placed in proximity to the main speakers can yield more pleasing and some might say more realistic music reproduction including stereo (or beyond) ambiance. However IME there is often a tradeoff unless mains woofers and sub towers do not reproduce overlapping frequencies.
3) More subs are better but result in a diminishing return, most certainly >2 (again IMO)
4) Sub(s) output capability need to be capable enough to combat (for lack of a better descriptor) mains' woofers' resulting nulls and peaks. For example - a single 8" sub will have minimal effect in curving bass issues if your mains are Wilson XLFs but a pair of JLA Gothams placed appropriately will.

I believe the ideal and most realistic sub / bass is a combination of both bass / sub towers at close proximity to the main speakers augmented by several highly capable subs placed strategically in the room to smooth nulls and peaks. The best location in the modest - sized rooms that I incorporated subs in flanked the sweet spot left and right walls and almost never against the front wall L and R corners where they are commonly placed. The few rooms I've heard good sub integration at front wall positions were always in quite large rooms.
Very interesting reading...not so much by design as by necessity, our sub is located flank left of the sweet spot (with none on the front wall). Would have liked to have had one flank right (as you suggest)...but there is no more room left! Fortunately, the Wilson importer here who is a true maven whose main GM gets flown around the world by clients to setup and dial in their system...was kind enough when he finished the XLF set up to properly setup the Velodyne as well and got us to flat to 25hz and within -5db at 20hz. A very good result, and definitely pleased.

Nevertheless, continue to continue to think next move towards Funk 18.2...
 
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LL21

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Solypsa

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Jun 7, 2017
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www.solypsa.com
A pair of NNNN Devor 16 perhaps? Each with 2x21"

Frequency response ±3dB:
16 Hz - 80 Hz

Max. cont. SPL (1m, 2Pi):
140 dB

d16_f7.png

NNNN Devor 16
 
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gestalt

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pweg

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Jun 8, 2014
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Does the Funk have two subs? It's unclear but it would be good Gary points out for neutralizing self sound. They have WAY more power than the other ones, plenty to get it moving.

Servo isn't useful in the lowest frequencies. It doesn't do anything useful. It's good in the upper bass for sure but in the super depths it can't correct anything without overshoot. Any well programmed servo sub decreases the servo control as it goes into the 20's and 10's. Frankly almost all the sound coming out is second harmonic because the driver cone isn't big enough (and never will be).

I'd say power is more important than the cabinet when you're talking sub 20hz, at least for being sufficient of actual volume and not greatly reduced (which doesn't necessarily sound bad). Also important is thermal problems and the actual driver by Funk has serious thermal control which is necessary for continued play without loss of volume (especially with thousands of watts). The only one I know that goes farther maybe is by Pi.

Btw I know a few people who say the Funk is much better than Rythmik.
i have a Funk 18.0LX - (its one rung down from the 18.2). I had a Rythmik E15HP2 and i have a Magico SSub. The Funk is the best by a long margin. It simply doesn't compare with the other 2. Albeit in this system it is only used for HT in my living room not for music - but it would still be very good for music. Its so fast deep and produces more bass that you feel and experience.
 

Ron Resnick

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i have a Funk 18.0LX . . . Albeit in this system it is only used for HT in my living room not for music - but it would still be very good for music.

Have you ever used the Funk for music?
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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only music videos etc - its great ... but just wanted to be clear i have never used it in my big system

Thank you.
 

theJman

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Another potential option to consider would be Harbottle Audio. Nathan sources a lot of his drivers from Harbottle so they share the same primary benefits. Harbottle focuses their engineering a bit more on producing the low end though so if deep bass is what you're after they might be a better choice. I published an evaluation on the Harbottle C7 speakers and C18 L1 subwoofer, the latter being the entry point in the line (there's a C18 L2 that keeps the same physical enclosure size but ups the driver and amp capabilities). I very much enjoyed what I heard/felt from it, clean and powerful is really addicting. If you want to go all in they produce 24" subwoofers as well, also in L1 and L2 guise.
 
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LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Another potential option to consider would be Harbottle Audio. Nathan sources a lot of his drivers from Harbottle so they share the same primary benefits. Harbottle focuses their engineering a bit more on producing the low end though so if deep bass is what you're after they might be a better choice. I published an evaluation on the Harbottle C7 speakers and C18 L1 subwoofer, the latter being the entry point in the line (there's a C18 L2 that keeps the same physical enclosure size but ups the driver and amp capabilities). I very much enjoyed what I heard/felt from it, clean and powerful is really addicting. If you want to go all in they produce 24" subwoofers as well, also in L1 and L2 guise.
Yes, very interesting! There is a link on the Funk Audio website.
 

dbeau

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Apr 20, 2018
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OKC,USA
I am incapable of helping here but am thinking along this line so wonder:
The Funks are close to $40K a pair and I could incrementally stack my REL 25s for the same height effect and not be be far off in cost at reaching a 6 pack. Might be OK at 4 pack (?) Is there a reason you are not considering this too? Thx
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I am incapable of helping here but am thinking along this line so wonder:
The Funks are close to $40K a pair and I could incrementally stack my REL 25s for the same height effect and not be be far off in cost at reaching a 6 pack. Might be OK at 4 pack (?) Is there a reason you are not considering this too? Thx
Hi Dbeau,

When I look at the cost 2 x Funk 18.2s are 10%-15% less than a complete 6-pack REL 25th and 33% less than a complete 6-pack REL 30th. On top of that they take up WAY less space. The 25th and 30th (3 stacked) are each roughly W31 inches x L30 inches x H60 inches or so...a big footprint and height.

Each Funk 18.2 is 25 inches x 25 inches x 25 inches. And air displacement-wise, I think the dual Funks exceed the REL 6-pack!
 

dbeau

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Apr 20, 2018
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113
OKC,USA
Hi Dbeau,

When I look at the cost 2 x Funk 18.2s are 10%-15% less than a complete 6-pack REL 25th and 33% less than a complete 6-pack REL 30th. On top of that they take up WAY less space. The 25th and 30th (3 stacked) are each roughly W31 inches x L30 inches x H60 inches or so...a big footprint and height.

Each Funk 18.2 is 25 inches x 25 inches x 25 inches. And air displacement-wise, I think the dual Funks exceed the REL 6-pack!
Understood - thanks
 

pweg

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Jun 8, 2014
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Australia
I am incapable of helping here but am thinking along this line so wonder:
The Funks are close to $40K a pair and I could incrementally stack my REL 25s for the same height effect and not be be far off in cost at reaching a 6 pack. Might be OK at 4 pack (?) Is there a reason you are not considering this too? Thx
The funk 18.2 has a peak output power of 21200 watts. If you had 2 of them that’s 40kw

I have the model below which is rated at 10400 watts peak. I’m not sure your comparing apples with apples when u compare an 18.2 to any sort of Rel. let alone 2 x 18.2. Also, with the model below the 18.2 you are only looking at $8700 not close to $20k each.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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The funk 18.2 has a peak output power of 21200 watts.

What does this number mean to you? “Peak” output power at what duration of peak? A few nanoseconds?

I think this is a spurious figure. 21,200 watts at 120 volts implies 177 amps. I don’t think so.

Jeremy, what say you?
 

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