Giyas tipped up in the highs

sbo6

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May 18, 2014
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Vivid owners, if I can ask - my new G2 S2s have ~200 hours on them and to my ears are tipped up in the highs. The only way to really ensure they are balanced across mids - high is to raise them up on a platform 3+ inches, tilt them back and ensure little to no toe - in. My SS seat isn't abnormally high or low and my room is of average size and well treated. Has anyone else experienced significant high end energy without raising, tilting and toe - in? Mind you, they still sound beautiful but these efforts seem a bit extreme. Thanks in advance for your input.
 

Blackmorec

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Feb 1, 2019
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Hi there ‘6
I’ve never even heard Vivid Lss, but 200 hours is far too early to be judging the top to bottom frequency spectrum accuracy. Drivers run in at different rates, crossovers and internal cables also typically need more time. It sounds like you’ve spent a lot of time and energy trying to balance what is currently a very unbalanced combination of semi-run-in drivers. Waste of time if you’ll forgive me saying so. Give them 500 hours then start to work of finding the optimum placement.
 

sbo6

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Thanks for the advice but as per the dealer, the manual and the President of Vivid 100 - 200 hours seems to be adequate. Also, compared to other speakers and components I've heard little change over the past 200 hours and as such I think they're 98% done.
 

Zero000

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Jul 28, 2014
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I'd do two things.

1) Get a test mic and see what the frequent response actually is.

2) Use digital EQ to see where you think the response sounds right. Equaliser APO and the Peace GUI is both good and free.
 
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Audiophile Bill

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Good advice from Justin imho. At least you can determine if there is a particularly nasty frequency range that is causing the issue.

Can I ask what amps you are using to drive them?
 

sbo6

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Thanks guys. I have already measured and it's exactly what I thought - the speakers do not roll off in the highs and are essentially flat up to 20KHz hence the brightness. Net is - there's no particular frequency or frequencies that are exacerbating the highs from the speakers or from my room - it's ruler flat with no HF rolloff. I have since contacted others and what I'm learning is that the Giyas should be placed without toe - in as that's how the Giya dealers and company demo them. I will experiment more but my gut says that if you want toe - in (which I like some toe - in for sound staging and image coherence) I will likely need to keep them lifted up several inches as I'm alreayd doing.
 

Audiophile Bill

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Thanks guys. I have already measured and it's exactly what I thought - the speakers do not roll off in the highs and are essentially flat up to 20KHz hence the brightness. Net is - there's no particular frequency or frequencies that are exacerbating the highs from the speakers or from my room - it's ruler flat with no HF rolloff. I have since contacted others and what I'm learning is that the Giyas should be placed without toe - in as that's how the Giya dealers and company demo them. I will experiment more but my gut says that if you want toe - in (which I like some toe - in for sound staging and image coherence) I will likely need to keep them lifted up several inches as I'm alreayd doing.

What is the amp you are using?
 

sbo6

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Sorry forgot - Wells Audio Innamorata for front drivers, Musical Fidelity A308CR for woofers.I've used it on other speakers like Usher BE20Ds and it never came across as aggressively tipped up. My goal is to procure a Luxman M800 or M900 and a year later buy a 2nd one and run them as monos.
 

sbo6

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Usher BE20D with the GR Research crossovers /wiring upgrade.

Also, I confirmed via very little toe - in and absorption on first reflection that the speakers are much more balance with better spacial cues and a wider sound stage. Sounds much better.
 

Jake Purches

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Jun 17, 2015
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Thanks guys. I have already measured and it's exactly what I thought - the speakers do not roll off in the highs and are essentially flat up to 20KHz hence the brightness. Net is - there's no particular frequency or frequencies that are exacerbating the highs from the speakers or from my room - it's ruler flat with no HF rolloff. I have since contacted others and what I'm learning is that the Giyas should be placed without toe - in as that's how the Giya dealers and company demo them. I will experiment more but my gut says that if you want toe - in (which I like some toe - in for sound staging and image coherence) I will likely need to keep them lifted up several inches as I'm alreayd doing.
Not so - the Giyas benefit from quite a pronounced toe in as did our B&W Nautilus before. This seems counter intuitive but the speaker is fundamentally semi- omni directional. So try a toe-in at 30 or even 40 degrees. The centre images should be 'floating' in mid air. Then see how the top end sounds. Fortunately as the Giyas are low mass, its an easy experiment to do. Jake Purches - Vivid Audio R&D dept, UK.
 

sbnx

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Mar 28, 2017
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Hello,
I own a pair of G’1’s. I would never call the top end of the G1’s tipped up. If anything it is polite. I have a lot of toe-in. The speakers are pointed at my ears. As the off axis response is very smooth mild toe-in is ok as the reflections from the side wall will be spectrally similar and not causing a timbre shift. . This wil give an apparent larger soundstage.

Something to consider for the brightness you are experiencinng. It could be some high level reflection from a nearby surface. This would show up in the etc curve in REW if you can measure the speakers. Also making sure the speakers are level and the tweeters are on the same axis.

Hope this helps.

Todd
 

JackD201

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Hi SB I'm flying blind here but it may be that it isn't your highs but rather how your sidefiring bass drivers are coupling to your room. Flat measurement is desirable to very few people. VERY few. Most people want a linear slope because of our inbor sensitivity to various frequencies. My advice which I believe is great because it won't cost a cent is to experiment with your speaker position to best integrate the bass and midbass drivers in order to achieve a slope right for you. Currently your method of using rake and height is working by dropping the highs more than the bass. Try the opposite way as I suggest. It will drop the highs relative to the rest while saving amplifier power reserves. I hope that if you try this, it will help somehow.
 

Zero000

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Always thought the Luxman/Vivid combo sounded great at shows and never tipped up in the treble.

I think a Luxman M-800A is a great match for speakers that contain any degree of edginess or metallic colouration. There's some of that in Vivids from the loads of pairs I have heard.

With a good tube preamp, it should work well.
 
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Bar81

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First thing to try is what the manufacturer is suggesting given the apparently unconventional design.

If that doesn't yield improvement keep in mind that treble perception is linked to bass - if bass is weak, treble will dominate and sound bright and if the bass is too much then treble sounds dead, all with no change to treble output. It's all a part of the whole.

The other thing to consider is that we tweak systems, not components. Given that, you might have tweaked performance to push up treble with your earlier speakers to get the sound you wanted which is causing you issues with a more neutral speaker. Assuming components are not the issue, try removing all tweaks to your system and starting from that baseline. I've found that many tweaks I have made in earlier configurations have been counterproductive as my system performance has increased.
 
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Folsom

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I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the cables. I like JPS in wall, but I can’t vouch for anything else. Then again I don’t know the other stuff but the amp.
 

Folsom

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I would reduce the volume of the tweeter by modifying the crossover. I have done this to many of my speakers and it's always an improvement.

Many high-end speakers do have tweeter level controls.

That's your first thing to try? I think that's insane. Again, it's extremely unlikely the speakers have anything to do with the "tipped up" sound. As far as I know no one has reported them having anything but flat pretty flat FR, with measurements.

He's not an expert crossover designer, either, to know when as many problems might be created as solved by changing something.
 

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