GT Audio Works GTA 2 Planar Magnetic Loudspeakers

[KLH007]

Just had David's amps on GTA2s

I am seriously considering the GTA2(.5) speakers. Even to the point of buying unheard. I was a panel speaker guy for almost 30 years and have a lot of experience with Maggies, ML, Acoustat, Apogee, and the like. My one reservation is that of amplification. What are you using to drive the panels? I have 30 watt Berning amp and am concerned I'll need more power.

John

David Berning just visited my house bringing 2 pairs of monoblocks, his production 200 watt ZOTLs ( Class B), and a prototype Class A version on the same chassis rated at 25 watts. He hooked up an oscilloscope so we could see if the 25 watt amp was being driven into clipping. We listened quite loud, and on the biggest peaks the 25 watt amp reached it's limit on the scope, but we did not hear any signs of distress at all. Now the power supply for these 25 watt monoblocks is much bigger than your 30w version, but you might be surprised. Plus the design changes Greg has made have the external amp only seeing the midrange planar magnetic and a cap before the ribbon tweeter, eliminating the crossover network my version has for the 2 8" mid bass drivers which made some good amps stumble, the current version is a substantially easier load for amps so the little Berning might be enough depending on your room size and listening levels. Greg's GTA2s are so exciting, lively, involving, capable of playing loud without any glare or strain, convey explosive dynamics, vocals float in the middle right in front of you, they make my feet move and put a big smile on my face whenever I power them up. When he ramps up and gets "The" review he needs, watch out planar lovers, there will be a new player in the field!

 

[bonzo75]

Great points. I think with that design and the amp driving only the panel, the Berning 30w should work.

 

[GuillaumeB]

Hi John. I have had my Vitus SIA 025 for a year or so and it is the best amp I have ever owned.
I have heard a range of other amps at Munich and none persuaded me that they sounded better overall.
Initially I was unsure whether the 25 watt Class A output (100 watts A/B) was enough. Fraser assured me there would be no problem and he was right and I know my experience has been mirrored by that of other owners. My Carmels' sensistivity is 85 so not the most efficient but in class A I still have power to spare.
Have a word with Fraser.

I think I mentioned this already on another thread but last year I was lucky to borrow an SIA-025 for a few weeks... they had absolutely no trouble whatsoever driving my Sasha 2s. Very fine amp indeed!

Guillaume

 

[allvinyl]

not sure what your budget might be, but last fall I had the pleasure of enjoying a weekend with the Berning 211/845 ZOTL Monoblocks which are 60 watts class A and more in push pull. it's a great amplifier.

very holographic, beautiful tone, linear at the frequency extremes, and dynamic. I used to own 75 watt Tenor OTL's so I know my OTL's.

can it do those speakers justice? don't know.

Hi Mike - yes I am aware of the 845/211 commissioned to Berning by Rick Brown. I believe the pair retail for $70k. Out of my league. I could be seduced to sell the Berning if I find a candidate that can really drive the panels and also comes really close to the sonic qualities of the Berning noted by you and Lloyd.

John

 

[allvinyl]

Berning Quadrature Z's would do the job, but are very spendy. http://davidberning.com/products/qz

Yes, the large Quadratures are good candidates, but even used I believe they would be above the budget. I'd like to spend 5 -10k and am certainly willing to look at the used market.

John

 

[allvinyl]

Another thought...a lot of people say Atmasphere amps drive big panels like Soundlabs extremely well. But given Stillpoints corporate relationship with Vitus, i do think that could be quite a nice route to take if the Bernings are not up to driving the panels...

I will have to write Hans-Ole to learn his advice. I was impressed by how well the 025 drove the Focals in a very large room; conservatively 20x20x15. I do have to write, however, that the 025 does not have some of the imaging and tonal characteristics of the Berning, IMHO. As far as Atmasphere goes; I've not investigated Ralph's amps in consideration for my own purchase, but I know they are well regarded for driving large panels.

John

 

[allvinyl]

Yes, about 30 watts being too low. Those amps are fantastic. But then I know a guy who drives his Maggies with 40w and loves it. Greg at least has powered woofers.

But i really wouldn't worry about that. I would just try it with the Berning, if not will sell the Berning, and get another one. Unless of course your decision is driven by the amp and you want to retain the Berning

Hi - I really would prefer to hang on to the Berning, but at this point, speakers are the weak link in my system. I'd also like to go back to a speaker like Greg's as designs like his GTA 2(.5) are more my cup of tea versus the boxed floor standers I'm running now. So, I am saying that I will let the Berning go if need be, especially if I like Greg's speakers as much as I expect to. Of course, the simplest way to solve this whole issue is to climb on a plane to NJ with my Berning in tow. Then I could resolve at least 2 issues at once and have a firm direction to pursue. I really have to start thinking about doing that...

John

 

[LL21]

I will have to write Hans-Ole to learn his advice. I was impressed by how well the 025 drove the Focals in a very large room; conservatively 20x20x15. I do have to write, however, that the 025 does not have some of the imaging and tonal characteristics of the Berning, IMHO. As far as Atmasphere goes; I've not investigated Ralph's amps in consideration for my own purchase, but I know they are well regarded for driving large panels.

John

Berning amps are a special breed...there is no question in Roy Gregory's mind about that when we last spoke about them. If you like Berning's special magic, then perhaps getting a more powerful one is the safest (though more expensive) bet for you. Good luck!!!

 

[bonzo75]

I hear you John. Most floor standers are not speakers, they are boxes. It's much easier for a vinyl guy to go digital


The NAT might beat the berning at a lower cost, only downside for you is to get it cheap you have to buy directly from Serbia, which means poor service, or on the US you can get a dem from the same guy who sells triangle art. The NAT transmitter which is 120w class A per mono, SET tube (one giant jug like tube per mono) was rated the best amp by a German mag. Drives the Analysis brilliantly. Their microwave is cheaper, 100w mono, bought directly probably about 4k

 

[bonzo75]

Hi how did the tenor compare to the berning?

not sure what your budget might be, but last fall I had the pleasure of enjoying a weekend with the Berning 211/845 ZOTL Monoblocks which are 60 watts class A and more in push pull. it's a great amplifier.

very holographic, beautiful tone, linear at the frequency extremes, and dynamic. I used to own 75 watt Tenor OTL's so I know my OTL's.

can it do those speakers justice? don't know.

 

[KLH007]

Please don't jump to the conclusion that Berning's 30 watter will not be enough. John, do you play rock loud, or jazz/vocals at reasonable levels? The 25 watt Class A David brought was really enough, except for the rare times you really want to jam out to a song at ear damaging levels. And remember, my older panels have 2 8" sealed drivers with a difficult network, whereas the current version directly connects the amp to the planar midrange and only has a cap in front of the ribbon tweeter, a MUCH easier load for any amp to drive. John, take a vacation to NJ, when the snow clears, bring your Berning and prepare to wear a big smile. I'll drive up from MD for that session.

 

[bonzo75]

I need to be at 85 to 90db SPL for orchestral and rock

 

[KLH007]

I need to be at 85 to 90db SPL for orchestral and rock

We were easily hitting those levels on peaks, as a line source the volume level falls off less with distance.

 

[allvinyl]

I hear you John. Most floor standers are not speakers, they are boxes. It's much easier for a vinyl guy to go digital

The NAT might beat the berning at a lower cost, only downside for you is to get it cheap you have to buy directly from Serbia, which means poor service, or on the US you can get a dem from the same guy who sells triangle art. The NAT transmitter which is 120w class A per mono, SET tube (one giant jug like tube per mono) was rated the best amp by a German mag. Drives the Analysis brilliantly. Their microwave is cheaper, 100w mono, bought directly probably about 4k

I have no exposure to the NAT amplifiers. Though, I see they've been shown at Axpona in Chicago. I usually go to that show as it's an easy 6 hour drive from where I am in Minnesota. I expect to be there again in April 2015 so that would be a good opportunity to audition the amplifiers. What is the retail cost of the Transmitter, via direct from Serbia? At $4k direct, the Microwave is in my budget for sure.

John

 

[allvinyl]

Please don't jump to the conclusion that Berning's 30 watter will not be enough. John, do you play rock loud, or jazz/vocals at reasonable levels? The 25 watt Class A David brought was really enough, except for the rare times you really want to jam out to a song at ear damaging levels. And remember, my older panels have 2 8" sealed drivers with a difficult network, whereas the current version directly connects the amp to the planar midrange and only has a cap in front of the ribbon tweeter, a MUCH easier load for any amp to drive. John, take a vacation to NJ, when the snow clears, bring your Berning and prepare to wear a big smile. I'll drive up from MD for that session.

No, I won't jump to that conclusion. In my email discussion with Greg, he asked similar questions about my listening habits/preferences in reference to this same issue with the 30 watt Berning. I do listen to a variety of music; rock, jazz combo, jazz vocal, big band, and classical, both small ensemble and orchestral and opera. Listening is usually done between 85db and 95db, with the very occasional crank over 100db. I would miss that with full orchestral and Led Zep so I'd rather have the capability than to overdrive a smaller amp just to achieve those high decibels.

Yes, I understand from Greg how he's changed that aspect of how the amplifier 'sees' the speaker so that does work to my advantage with this lower powered Berning. He also thinks it will be extremely transparent. I agree on that issue.

I am actually thinking, now, that the trip to NJ is the way to go. Yes, I would choose to wait some weeks to get past the winter weather. It would have to be a singular purpose trip to keep expenses to a minimum. It would be great to meet you and to also have you there for another set of ears and for your impressions.

John

 

[allvinyl]

I need to be at 85 to 90db SPL for orchestral and rock

Yes, me as well...

John

 

[bonzo75]

Lol John, apart from classical, my forum id is for led zep's drummer. Unfortunately I can't play much of them on hifi because I am a fan of their badly recorded live stuff - the double dvd, the listen to this Eddie bootleg which is live from 21 June 1977, how the west was won (decent recording).

If you go to NJ, drop in to a guy named Nick at Queens and listen to his Analysis Amphitryon with lamm.

 

[allvinyl]

Lol John, apart from classical, my forum id is for led zep's drummer. Unfortunately I can't play much of them on hifi because I am a fan of their badly recorded live stuff - the double dvd, the listen to this Eddie bootleg which is live from 21 June 1977, how the west was won (decent recording).

If you go to NJ, drop in to a guy named Nick at Queens and listen to his Analysis Amphitryon with lamm.

I always wondered if your handle had anything to do with the elder Bonham. Yes, I agree that some of their most inspired material is on the plethora of bootlegs, and such, that is out there. I have a few and agree that they're generally poorly recorded and presented regardless of format.

My personal holy grail is the mint, white label promo, R Ludwig mastered LZII I have. Just smokin' and still my favorite LZ album. I like, and have, that HtWwW set. The footage on that DVD is awesome, even if the sonics are not top notch. They're passable and, for me, don't ruin my enjoyment of that set.

John

 

[bonzo75]

That dvd is the best I know. And White summer from listen to this Eddie is my favorite guitar. The drums in Kashmir and TSRTS from that Eddie bootleg are the best too. Bonham became much better 1975 onwards, his style transformed.

Also look up the clips where the best rock drummers get together once a year for the groove remains the same, which is a tribute to Bonham. No quarter is especially good, by the drummer of Slayer

 

[bonzo75]

I always wondered if your handle had anything to do with the elder Bonham. Yes, I agree that some of their most inspired material is on the plethora of bootlegs, and such, that is out there. I have a few and agree that they're generally poorly recorded and presented regardless of format.

My personal holy grail is the mint, white label promo, R Ludwig mastered LZII I have. Just smokin' and still my favorite LZ album. I like, and have, that HtWwW set. The footage on that DVD is awesome, even if the sonics are not top notch. They're passable and, for me, don't ruin my enjoyment of that set.

John

I don't like LZII (well, relatively). Whole Lotta Love studio is my least favorite Zep song. But then the 22 minute version of that song is one of their best, I love it, when they go through Elvis, john lee hooker, and hello mary lou. That said, one of the best Zep I heard was when the Western electric horns at Munich belted Whole Lotta Love, reaching deep into the bowels of the earth to get the bass out