Hi-End System vs percussion band

[thomask]

It seems that live play sound much better than Hi end system through Youtube.

Would it sound much similar if they had used vintage WE horn system?

 

[stehno]

Not quite sure what the intended purpose was because it’s not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.

I don't profess my ears to be very skiled but for example. The volume level of the playback could easily have been better matched to the live version. There is a thinness to the overall presentation though some of this can probably be explained. There is also breakup, harshness, and hardening in some of the higher frequency percussive instruments including the windchimes. Implying that playback system distortions are compromising the extended frequencies and hence all other frequencies but perhaps less noticeable. And though difficult to tell because of the playback's lower volume setting than the live performance, it does seem that the high frequency percussives are larger than life (another by-produce of distortions induced into the playback system). But again, hard to judge because of the volume differences.

But the real kicker is that although it’s an excellent idea for a demo on the surface, not sure why they would have the playback system sharing the same soundstage as the live performance. This implies that if the playback system is able to audibly reproduce the hall’s ambient information, there would be in essence a doubling up of the hall’s ambient information (that which is audible from the recording at the speaker and again the speakers interacting with the hall’s acoustics for the Youtube video recording. This could explain the perceived excess thinness and less warmth of the recorded / playback version.

However, it just occurred to me why the playback system and speakers are probably intentionally placed on the same soundstage rather than in a reasonable listening room so there's little potential of doubling up on the ambient info. There is most always a tremendous abundance of the hall’s ambient information embedded in even some of the most inferior recordings but this abundance of ambient info is the most difficult to capture during playback as our playback systems will bury a high percentage of this ambient info below the noise floor so that it remains inaudible at the speakers.

That is most likely the case here as well. Hence playing back the recorded version thru the speakers sharing the same soundstage should help recapture some of the ambient info for the Youtube recording that the playback system buried. Thus giving the playback version a more live sound than it deserves. Cute.

They obviously gave this some thought and I suspect some trial and error. But at the very least they would have benefited more had they at least matched the playback volume to the volume of the live performance. Then again, if playback distortions are suppressing much of the ambient info and inducing some breakup in the higher frequencies as I suspect, perhaps a louder playback volumes would have caused more breakup and other distortions elsewhere. So quite possibly they might not have dared play the recorded version any louder than they did for best compromise.

Again, I’m sure they went thru some trial and error with this demonstration as well as some serious risk management assessment prior to finalizing things.

I didn’t expect the playback to sound as well as it did but they obviously went to a lot of effort to produce this and I'd say overall, job well done. Though I’m pretty confident I could do significantly better at playback if I had the recording for that live performance via my own more humble yet more well-thought-out playback system than what they used. Below is a little in-room percussive demo recording via an iPhone and Shure MV88 microphone that should demonstrate little if any breakup during some complex moments while retaining the high frequency percussive instrument's pristine and even delicate characteristics along with retaining what seems to be more in line with the instruments' actual sizes. I should also note that this recording did not take place on a soundstage at a concert hall yet much of the ambient info remains audible. And the room itself contains no room acoustic treatment. Listeniing via a decent set of headphones helps.

 

[RogerD]

Two ways of moving air. One is natural with plenty of ambience and the reproduction lacks the ambience and is limited by distortion, limited speaker size and power output.

 

[thomask]

Not quite sure what the intended purpose was because it’s not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.

I don't profess my ears to be very skiled but for example. The volume level of the playback could easily have been better matched to the live version. There is a thinness to the overall presentation though some of this can probably be explained. There is also breakup, harshness, and hardening in some of the higher frequency percussive instruments including the windchimes. Implying that playback system distortions are compromising the extended frequencies and hence all other frequencies but perhaps less noticeable. And though difficult to tell because of the playback's lower volume setting than the live performance, it does seem that the high frequency percussives are larger than life (another by-produce of distortions induced into the playback system). But again, hard to judge because of the volume differences.

But the real kicker is that although it’s an excellent idea for a demo on the surface, not sure why they would have the playback system sharing the same soundstage as the live performance. This implies that if the playback system is able to audibly reproduce the hall’s ambient information, there would be in essence a doubling up of the hall’s ambient information (that which is audible from the recording at the speaker and again the speakers interacting with the hall’s acoustics for the Youtube video recording. This could explain the perceived excess thinness and less warmth of the recorded / playback version.

However, it just occurred to me why the playback system and speakers are probably intentionally placed on the same soundstage rather than in a reasonable listening room so there's little potential of doubling up on the ambient info. There is most always a tremendous abundance of the hall’s ambient information embedded in even some of the most inferior recordings but this abundance of ambient info is the most difficult to capture during playback as our playback systems will bury a high percentage of this ambient info below the noise floor so that it remains inaudible at the speakers.

That is most likely the case here as well. Hence playing back the recorded version thru the speakers sharing the same soundstage should help recapture some of the ambient info for the Youtube recording that the playback system buried. Thus giving the playback version a more live sound than it deserves. Cute.

They obviously gave this some thought and I suspect some trial and error. But at the very least they would have benefited more had they at least matched the playback volume to the volume of the live performance. Then again, if playback distortions are suppressing much of the ambient info and inducing some breakup in the higher frequencies as I suspect, perhaps a louder playback volumes would have caused more breakup and other distortions elsewhere. So quite possibly they might not have dared play the recorded version any louder than they did for best compromise.

Again, I’m sure they went thru some trial and error with this demonstration as well as some serious risk management assessment prior to finalizing things.

I didn’t expect the playback to sound as well as it did but they obviously went to a lot of effort to produce this and I'd say overall, job well done. Though I’m pretty confident I could do significantly better at playback if I had the recording for that live performance via my own more humble yet more well-thought-out playback system than what they used. Below is a little in-room percussive demo recording via an iPhone and Shure MV88 microphone that should demonstrate little if any breakup during some complex moments while retaining the high frequency percussive instrument's pristine and even delicate characteristics along with retaining what seems to be more in line with the instruments' actual sizes. I should also note that this recording did not take place on a soundstage at a concert hall yet much of the ambient info remains audible. And the room itself contains no room acoustic treatment. Listeniing via a decent set of headphones helps.

I appreciate your long dissertation on this subject.

Most audiophile enjoy their system at home, so they hope that their system sound as close to live concert.

But reality is not that optimistic.

Thomas

 

[thomask]

Two ways of moving air. One is natural with plenty of ambience and the reproduction lacks the ambience and is limited by distortion, limited speaker size and power output.

Hello Roger

Your points are spot on.

Thomas