How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Esoteric-CD.jpg
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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Hello,

Mine came with a large square piece of foam that filled out the space of the entire compartment above the laser mechanism which was to prevent the drawer from sliding open. I will try and attach a picture below...

View attachment 149716


In addition to this large square piece of foam, there was a second piece of foam inside the transport mechanism which kept the laser held securely in one place while in transit during shipping. I will try and attach a picture of this below...

View attachment 149717

I hope the photos will be helpful as an illustration of how mine Jay's arrived.

Best wishes,
Don

Ok, thank you. Mine came only with a large square piece of foam inside the laser compartment, not the second, smaller piece for preventing lateral movement of the laser.
 
Hello Kingrex,

It's a great dac, isn't it? I think Benjamin does an amazing job with the Mojo Mystique X dac.

At this time, I do not currently do any streaming. I either play vinyl records or I spin cd's on my Jay's Audio dedicated cd transport into my Mojo Mystique X dac.

Maybe some day I will consider streaming, but currently I simply enjoy the sound quality and the process of handling the physical media. I enjoy listening to entire albums - whether it be on vinyl or cd formats. I'm not one to hop, skip and jump around from one song, artist or genre song after song.

I realize I may be the odd man out when it comes to streaming, but it's just how I am, lol.

By the way, you have a lot of great components in your system! I especially love your First Sound line stage... I see we have that in common too :cool:

Best wishes,
Don
I remember now. You got the Jays Mk2. You said some people like it better rhan the 3. Wasn't that you.

Yes, our preamps are amazing. I use to role the E88CC. I don't anymore. Since Emmanuel last upgrade, the stock $40 tube is the best.

Ben with Mojo said the Jays Audio with AES as the best input. I really want to try one. First I want subs.
 
Maybe some day I will consider streaming, but currently I simply enjoy the sound quality and the process of handling the physical media. I enjoy listening to entire albums - whether it be on vinyl or cd formats. I'm not one to hop, skip and jump around from one song, artist or genre song after song.

I realize I may be the odd man out when it comes to streaming, but it's just how I am, lol.

[...]

Best wishes,
Don

Don,

You are not the only odd man out when it comes to streaming. I also like to handle physical CDs. Putting the disc clamp on top of the CD in this top loading transport, as opposed to the front loader that I had before, adds an extra flair as well.

I have heard good streaming, but I have also heard many failures. The Jay's Audio CDT3 sets yet another new standard in sound quality for me which is probably hard to equal or even beat by streaming.

Just like it is for you, physical disc satisfies my way of listening to music. I don't hop around either, rather I prefer to listen to pieces many times to really get to know them intimately. This is my way of getting a close connection to the music.

I stream on my laptop with cheap headphones, that's good enough.

Al
 
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I remember now. You got the Jays Mk2. You said some people like it better rhan the 3. Wasn't that you.

Yes, our preamps are amazing. I use to role the E88CC. I don't anymore. Since Emmanuel last upgrade, the stock $40 tube is the best.

Ben with Mojo said the Jays Audio with AES as the best input. I really want to try one. First I want subs.
Hello,

I think that sometimes there can be confusion with the various incarnations of the Jay's Audio CD transport.

There used to be the Jays Audio CDT2-MK2 - No longer available for purchase.

Then they updated it with much sonic improvement to the Jays Audio CDT2-MK3 (this is the one that I have and this is still available for purchase.)

They now also offer the Jay's Audio CDT3 - MK3 - which uses a completely different cd mechanism along with much more sophisticated power supplies with many more parts, capacitors, etc... and therefore it is larger in physical size and also heavier.

I have found reports from users that they love both the CDT2-MK3 and the CDT3 -MK3. I have forum friends that have compared both side by side in the same system... some say they really couldn't discern a reliable difference between the two. Some said they preferred the CDT2-MK3 stating it sounded a bit more analog in it's presentation.

I decided on the CDT2-MK3 for the following reasons....

1. If the majority of the people that I had talked to can't discern a reliable and repeatable difference in the sound between the two transports and I can get the CDT2-MK3 for 1/2 the price of the CDT3... it was a no-brainer for me and therefore I decided to get the CDT2-MK3 and put the savings towards more music.

2. The laser mechanism is also much less expensive to replace in the CDT2-MK3 than in the CDT3-MK3. It is also very much easily user replaceable for the CDT2-MK3. In fact, I bought a brand new laser mechanism to keep on hand for if/whenever mine would die. I honestly doubt I'll ever have to worry about this happening as the laser/transport mechanism in the CDT2-MK3 has a long reputation of being robust and and having an extremely long life.

3. I also like the slightly smaller size and weight difference of having the CDT2-MK3.

4. I can also switch back and forth with the upsampling from my listening chair via the remote, versus having to get up and toggle a switch on the back side of the unit for the CDT3-MK3.

I honestly believe that you can't go wrong with either version. There were just some things about the CDT2-MK3 that were more beneficial to me.

Best wishes,
Don
 
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Hello,

I think that sometimes there can be confusion with the various incarnations of the Jay's Audio CD transport.

There used to be the Jays Audio CDT2-MK2 - No longer available for purchase.

Then they updated it with much sonic improvement to the Jays Audio CDT2-MK3 (this is the one that I have and this is still available for purchase.)

They now also offer the Jay's Audio CDT3 - MK3 - which uses a completely different cd mechanism along with much more sophisticated power supplies with many more parts, capacitors, etc... and therefore it is larger in physical size and also heavier.

I have found reports from users that they love both the CDT2-MK3 and the CDT3 -MK3. I have forum friends that have compared both side by side in the same system... some say they really couldn't discern a reliable difference between the two. Some said they preferred the CDT2-MK3 stating it sounded a bit more analog in it's presentation.

I decided on the CDT2-MK3 for the following reasons....

1. If the majority of the people that I had talked to can't discern a reliable and repeatable difference in the sound between the two transports and I can get the CDT2-MK3 for 1/2 the price of the CDT3... it was a no-brainer for me and therefore I decided to get the CDT2-MK3 and put the savings towards more music.

2. The laser mechanism is also much less expensive to replace in the CDT2-MK3 than in the CDT3-MK3. It is also very much easily user replaceable for the CDT2-MK3. In fact, I bought a brand new laser mechanism to keep on hand for if/whenever mine would die. I honestly doubt I'll ever have to worry about this happening as the laser/transport mechanism in the CDT2-MK3 has a long reputation of being robust and and having an extremely long life.

3. I also like the slightly smaller size and weight difference of having the CDT2-MK3.

4. I can also switch back and forth with the upsampling from my listening chair via the remote, versus having to get up and toggle a switch on the back side of the unit for the CDT3-MK3.

I honestly believe that you can't go wrong with either version. There were just some things about the CDT2-MK3 that were more beneficial to me.

Best wishes,
Don

That now also explains the different packaging of our units. Yours has a swing arm mechanism, while mine does not. I should have recognized the difference from your very helpful photos about the packaging which you posted.
 
Hello, thanks for sharing all that and just wanted to add a few things about the Jay's CDT here. The CDT2 is a very good sounding CDT and I can't think of how anyone would be unhappy with it. But the CDT3 really is one of the best sounding sources available at any cost, truly. In direct comparison somehow it is even more clear and resolving than the CDT2. Speaking from my own side by side experience.

I assume it's at least partially because of the maximum effort CLK it has, the whole R 3rd of the unit is dedicated to that CLK and its PSUs. We tried to master CLK the CDT3 with a couple of expensive external units (eg, Esotriec) and it did change slightly but didn't improve IMO. A first really IME.
And I assume the more expensive Pro2 mechanism plays some role as well but I have no way to compare to the CDM4 in the same unit. They also treat the output logic almost like analog with some high end local supply bypassing. Etc.

The CDT also offer an upsampling feature which might be appropriate for a DAC that is NOS for example.

In general I'd rank the output SQ as I2S > AES > SPDIF so it's usually best to use the I2S out if you can. Or even AES out to a good DDC to the DAC. AES is "pro" SPDIF essentially but it generally gets the nod over regular SPDIF IME as it uses differential signaling at least. I use a Gaia DDC in my own system and really like it.

Thanks, TK
 
To those of you who own the Jay’s CDT3, do you prefer to stay with 16:44 setting, or use the upsampling option? There is a little toggle switch at the back that allows upsampling.. appreciate any feedback.
 
Hello Kingrex,

It's a great dac, isn't it? I think Benjamin does an amazing job with the Mojo Mystique X dac.

At this time, I do not currently do any streaming. I either play vinyl records or I spin cd's on my Jay's Audio dedicated cd transport into my Mojo Mystique X dac.

Maybe some day I will consider streaming, but currently I simply enjoy the sound quality and the process of handling the physical media. I enjoy listening to entire albums - whether it be on vinyl or cd formats. I'm not one to hop, skip and jump around from one song, artist or genre song after song.

I realize I may be the odd man out when it comes to streaming, but it's just how I am, lol.

By the way, you have a lot of great components in your system! I especially love your First Sound line stage... I see we have that in common too :cool:

Best wishes,
Don
Not sure why people seem to always equate streaming with skipping around and listening to different single tracks. I stream my music and 99% of the time I listen to complete albums.
 
I use streaming, have my own collection of files, as well as CDs and LPs. I enjoy each "source" differently:

- streaming I use to play anything, anywhere. I love the fact that I can find pretty much anything. I hate the fact that I don't always know where the music is sourced, when it was recorded, and who's playing, but that only bothers me for jazz, not for any other genre.

- my own collection is "curated". I essentially store albums that I like. I manage metadata for most of the albums in my collection. I love the fact that I can browse it, and see all my albums in an organized way. For artists that I like, I'm a bit of a "completist" and will have many of their albums. For most albums, I have the recording dates, the musicians, and often liner notes and comments added. I do skip around, but also listen to albums. I love playing albums randomly, or choosing a song and listening to 50 different versions, all by artists that I enjoy.

- I rip 99% of my CDs, so I rarely listen to them on a CD player.

- LPs are fun to listen to. Most of my small collection is made of albums you can't find on CD (there are not that many), or that sound significantly better than the digital version (and only for albums I realiy like).

Everyone sees things differently, and it changes over time.
 
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To those of you who own the Jay’s CDT3, do you prefer to stay with 16:44 setting, or use the upsampling option? There is a little toggle switch at the back that allows upsampling.. appreciate any feedback.

No experience with the transport myself, but on your point I remember the following from the Stereophile review/measurements that suggests you may want to consider the upsampling:

"I don't know what effect this dither will have on the performance of D/A processors that are connected to the Jay's CDT3-MK3, but it will limit the effective resolution of CDs played with the transport to closer to 15 bits rather than the 16 available on disc. By contrast, the upsampled output is bit-perfect with 16-bit CD data. Both types of output offer low jitter and well-resolved eye patterns, coupled with excellent error correction."

 
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To those of you who own the Jay’s CDT3, do you prefer to stay with 16:44 setting, or use the upsampling option? There is a little toggle switch at the back that allows upsampling.. appreciate any feedback.
I have 16,100 CDs. I tried the switch on at least a dozen CDs of various labels and dates of pressing. I prefer (as did several audiophile, music loving friends who heard it too) the 16/44 into a Lampizator Poseidon and Topping D70s DACs. While bit perfect, some loss of cohesive sonics were found at the higher sampling rate. We just did not like it as much. The Shanling ET3 transport sounded better (enjoyable) than the higher sampled CDt3 Mk3 so it remains at 16/44 for the past year.

Let me note that the power cable into the Jay's Audio transport is critical in my system. Five other low to high end cables were tried and they failed to sound acceptable. Only the Grover Huffman ZX+ and Westminster Labs Ultra power cables were great and enjoyable. The VS/Masterbuilt would probably be great too. Other cables tried sounded excellent on the DAC but not on the Jay's.

Another feature of the Jay's CDt3 Mk3 is that it flawlessly played disintegrating CDrs, wherein the CDrs were either poorer quality older or exposed to heat/sunlight. Attempting playing on many transports including a Philips CD player with it's CDM-9 swing arm mechanism did not work and the first tracks (2 28 and 27 track CDrs played up to 9 and then stopped) would play and then skips or stopped playing. I was able to copy the discs to my Alesis Masterlink via the Jay's transport through a DAC. The Jay's really obtains everything off a disc possible.
 
No experience with the transport myself, but on your point I remember the following from the Stereophile review/measurements that suggests you may want to consider the upsampling:

"I don't know what effect this dither will have on the performance of D/A processors that are connected to the Jay's CDT3-MK3, but it will limit the effective resolution of CDs played with the transport to closer to 15 bits rather than the 16 available on disc. By contrast, the upsampled output is bit-perfect with 16-bit CD data. Both types of output offer low jitter and well-resolved eye patterns, coupled with excellent error correction."


Not sure if I understand John Atkinson's reasoning here, how he arrives at "closer to 15 bits".
 
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Not sure if I understand John Atkinson's reasoning here, how he arrives at "closer to 15 bits".
Okay, maybe I'm only receiving 15 bits instead of 16 bits from my CDs. I have a decent high end system but I don't care as Ron Resnick would say, it's how it sounds. It sounds fantastic then at 15 bits. My friends systems also only use DACs and players at 16/44 and they sound great too. Perhaps the algorithms or other factors enable lowly 15 bit resolution to sound so spectacular. So 16/44 or 15/44 resolution is not up to WBF standards then.
 
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Okay, maybe I'm only receiving 15 bits instead of 16 bits from my CDs. I have a decent high end system but I don't care as Ron Resnick would say, it's how it sounds. It sounds fantastic then at 15 bits. My friends systems also only use DACs and players at 16/44 and they sound great too. Perhaps the algorithms or other factors enable lowly 15 bit resolution to sound so spectacular. So 16/44 or 15/44 resolution is not up to WBF standards then.

Well, I'm not sure about the math. Closer to 15 bits can mean anything, maybe 15.8 bits, 15.6 bits, 15.1 bits? I'd like to see some calculations here.

I agree, the transport sounds fantastic. Far superior to my previous Simaudio Moon 260 DT transport, which may feature 16 bits, who knows.

BTW, I have read a number of times the claim that analog tape, because of its signal to noise ratio, has about 13 bit resolution. Go figure.
 
Not sure why people seem to always equate streaming with skipping around and listening to different single tracks. I stream my music and 99% of the time I listen to complete albums.
Skipping songs is often a clear indication of “plastic” sound. Not all, but most DACs and streaming setups can trigger this reaction. It’s similar to eating a dessert made with artificial sweeteners—your brain craves real sugar, and in the hope of finding it, you keep trying the next bite… or in this case, the next track. But the satisfaction never comes.

This “plastic” character in the sound leads to a kind of restless skipping, especially with DACs and streaming. It’s much less common with CDs.

I’m glad to hear you can stream full albums without skipping. That suggests your setup must sound genuinely satisfying.
 
Skipping songs is often a clear indication of “plastic” sound. Not all, but most DACs and streaming setups can trigger this reaction. It’s similar to eating a dessert made with artificial sweeteners—your brain craves real sugar, and in the hope of finding it, you keep trying the next bite… or in this case, the next track. But the satisfaction never comes.

This “plastic” character in the sound leads to a kind of restless skipping, especially with DACs and streaming. It’s much less common with CDs.

Interesting. I have often used the same kind of term, "plasticky", to describe the synthetic sound that I have heard a lot from a mediocre streaming.

I’m glad to hear you can stream full albums without skipping. That suggests your setup must sound genuinely satisfying.

Yes, streaming can be done right.

I personally don't want to go through the effort and expense of trying to match the physical CD playback in my system with streaming, so I only stream over laptop and headphones where I don't care that much. But that is an individual choice.
 
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Skipping songs is often a clear indication of “plastic” sound. Not all, but most DACs and streaming setups can trigger this reaction. It’s similar to eating a dessert made with artificial sweeteners—your brain craves real sugar, and in the hope of finding it, you keep trying the next bite… or in this case, the next track. But the satisfaction never comes.

This “plastic” character in the sound leads to a kind of restless skipping, especially with DACs and streaming. It’s much less common with CDs.

I’m glad to hear you can stream full albums without skipping. That suggests your setup must sound genuinely satisfying.
Sorry, I couldn't agree less. I've heard analog, digital streaming and digital discs sound horrible and excellent and everything in between. There is no correlation to the medium whatsoever.

In terms of skipping - with physical media, it's convenient, let's say to just leave the analog and / or digital disc in the player rather than continually having to get up and change it which is why I'd argue most folks just leave it in until the end.

With digital streaming, you are your own DJ and can create your own playlist, fully editable on the fly, which makes the musical experience much more enjoyable.
 

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