How good is MSB Discrete Dac?

thomask

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20181206_185858.jpg

On Dec 6th, 2018 I had attended Launching event of YG Acoustics Hailey 1.2 speakers in Seoul, Korea.

MSB Select II Dac and Pre was connected to Viola Legacy Mono Amplifier to drive the speakers.

Nordost Valhalla cables were used.

The system gave wide and deep soundstage with tight and tuneful bass.

There is no doubt it was top notch system in every way with the total cost of component over 200K $.





At the end of show, we decided to do interesting comparison between MSB Select Dac II (85K$) and vinyl system using Kronus turntable.

Kronus turntable was fed to Octave phono amp and Viola Pre amp,

MSB Select was used as Pre and Dac.


I got surprised to find that MSB and Kronus gave very similar sound.

MSB Select provided slightly more dense sound with little bit more details.

Kronus gave slightly more relaxed sound.


If I had to choose one, I would take Kronus over MSB on this music since I like relaxed sound as I get older.


But it could change with different music.

Unfortunately we could test only one music.

Other people may have different opinion.



Despite this conclusion, MSB Select II gave one of the best sound from any DAC that I had ever heard.

But Select II with price tag of 100K$ is out of reach for most of people.



Base Model of MSB Discrete Dac is under 10k$.

It is much affordable.


Now the question is how good MSB Discrete Dac is.


If possible, I would like to audition MSB Discrete Dac at my home.

But I could not find any dealer around Seattle area.

The closest one is located on Vancouver, Canada.


I welcome input from who experienced MSB Discrete Dac.
 
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Lee

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I am also curious. Trying to arrange a loaner.
 

Ron Resnick

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KeithR concluded the "sweet spot" of price/value and sound quality is the next DAC up, the Premier, with two power bricks. The Premier is the one I would get (if I wanted to get a DAC).
 
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asiufy

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We have the Discrete on demo at the store. It's an amazing product for what it costs. The key here is whether you've had experience with other MSB DACs.

If you've only heard chip-based DACs, listening to an MSB, even the Discrete, is eye opening. We've just had a local fclient who listened to it at home, and

BTW, the two power supplies should be mandatory with either Discrete or Premier. The difference is huge. That bumps up the price a little, but it's worth it.
 
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christoph

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BTW, the two power supplies should be mandatory with either Discrete or Premier. The difference is huge. That bumps up the price a little, but it's worth it.

Can you define "a little"? :oops:
 

CKKeung

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Jun 17, 2011
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View attachment 53067

On Dec 6th, 2018 I had attended Launching event of YG Acoustics Hailey 1.2 speakers in Seoul, Korea.

MSB Select II Dac and Pre was connected to Viola Legacy Mono Amplifier to drive the speakers.

Nordost Valhalla cables were used.

The system gave wide and deep soundstage with tight and tuneful bass.

There is no doubt it was top notch system in every way with the total cost of component over 200K $.





At the end of show, we decided to do interesting comparison between MSB Select Dac II (85K$) and vinyl system using Kronus turntable.

Kronus turntable was fed to Octave phono amp and Viola Pre amp,

MSB Select was used as Pre and Dac.


I got surprised to find that MSB and Kronus gave very similar sound.

MSB Select provided slightly more dense sound with little bit more details.

Kronus gave slightly more relaxed sound.


If I had to choose one, I would take Kronus over MSB on this music since I like relaxed sound as I get older.


But it could change with different music.

Unfortunately we could test only one music.

Other people may have different opinion.



Despite this conclusion, MSB Select II gave one of the best sound from any DAC that I had ever heard.

But Select II with price tag of 100K$ is out of reach for most of people.



Base Model of MSB Discrete Dac is under 10k$.

It is much affordable.


Now the question is how good MSB Discrete Dac is.


If possible, I would like to audition MSB Discrete Dac at my home.

But I could not find any dealer around Seattle area.

The closest one is located on Vancouver, Canada.


I welcome input from who experienced MSB Discrete Dac.
Hello Thomask,
The Select DAC being so expensive, it should give such performance. Haha

BTW I can see it performing with a MSB Reference Tranaport?
And the Select DAC was not a mono Powerbase version.
What clock module did it have?
There is room for further improvement.

Also, the 4-piece poweramp must be the Viola flagship Bravo poweramp (not sure mk1 or mk2).
 
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asiufy

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thomask

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Hello Thomask,
The Select DAC being so expensive, it should give such performance. Haha

BTW I can see it performing with a MSB Reference Tranaport?
And the Select DAC was not a mono Powerbase version.
What clock module did it have?
There is room for further improvement.

Also, the 4-piece poweramp must be the Viola flagship Bravo poweramp (not sure mk1 or mk2).
Hello CK, I had been tube guy for the last 20 years.

Although Viola did not sound bad, it did not touch my heart.

I do not have further information on Select II for clock.

I will audition Premiere and Discrete with two basic power supplies ( a little ;))in the same shop tomorrow. for comparison.

After audition, I will give my impression.
 
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KeithR

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I have not heard the Discrete, but have heard the Premier, Reference, and of course the Select - you will not get 80% of the Select for a Discrete price. I don't believe my Premier gets that either. As Alex mentioned, you need to really compare them with other dacs to see the value argument. What I have discovered is that even the lower priced MSB dacs are far better than others as there is an analog, continuous quality to them that others lack. And as you move up the MSB line, of course that difference will be wider.
 

asiufy

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I'll just add that, since he has auditioned the Select in that same system, he really must judge the Discrete for its own merit, and compare against other competing DACs at the same price points, and not to the Select.
 
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Golum

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…. you need to really compare them with other dacs to see the value argument. What I have discovered is that even the lower priced MSB dacs are far better than others as there is an analog, continuous quality to them that others lack. ....
I would entirely agree with you on this part of the statement as in my personal experience things are not that black and white as somebody might understand from your words. There for sure are DACs that sound mighty analog...
 
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christoph

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I would entirely agree with you on this part of the statement as in my personal experience things are not that black and white as somebody might understand from your words. There for sure are DACs that sound mighty analog...
Indeed there are ;)
 
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Golum

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Just to substantiate a bit what I wrote previously and this one is from Myles B Astor (guess he can be considered as an analog guy):
"Or analog meets digital....Al has one of the best digital based systems that I've heard. xyz newest top xyz DAC was very impressive and much better than I've heard at audio shows. (Just for transparency's sake: I have a warm spot in my heart for tube DACs and find them the only way can listen to digital). Al and I listened for over three hours and there was no evidence of that dreaded digititis anywhere..."
System:
Speakers infinity IRS V (X-overs redone by Arnie Nudell via PS Audio)
Preamp mark levinson no 26
Amp mark levinson no 33
xyz DAC and xyz DAC
Bespoke Windows 2016 Server with AO

I've excluded deliberately what was the used DAC but it was not MSB.
 

Al M.

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I would entirely agree with you on this part of the statement as in my personal experience things are not that black and white as somebody might understand from your words. There for sure are DACs that sound mighty analog...

I don't care if a DAC sounds "analog" or not. I take unamplified live music as reference, and that is what a DAC should sound like, as much as possible. And that's what an analog set-up should sound like, too.
 

thomask

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20190523_144410-2.jpg

I auditioned MSB Discrete, Premier and Lampiziator Pacific on 23rd May in Seoul, Korea.

The source was simple Roon Nucleus with Octave Tube pre and Viola Monoblocks.

I also added just one more power supply to MSB Discrete, Premier as suggested by other member.


I started with Discrete first.

It sounds balanced with good details which belies its price tag of 11,500$ with one more power supply.

I played two vocals(one classical and one Jazz) one classical concertos and one New Age.

After switching to Premier, the sound changed drastic with more refined sound and tone color.

The difference of sound between Discrete and Premier is not minor.

After listening to Premier, I can not go back to Discrete.


MSB discrete sounds just slightly better than my 10 years old EMMLab Dac2(New price 9K$).

No consideration for upgrade at all.


After switching to Pacific, the sound had more body, timber and bass slam.

Pacific cost 25K$ in USA so It may be fair to compare it with Premier with improved clock.

Unfortunately they did not have upgraded clock.

But the difference of sound between Pacific and Premier is not so drastic as those between Premier and Discrete.

I say Premier is better than Discrete by 40% but Pacific is better than Premier by 15%.

With power bass block or upgraded clock, Premier may match the sound of Pacific.


I try to limit my budget to 20K$.

Thus I had hoped that the difference between Premier and Discrete shall be minor.so that I can be happy with Discrete.

But I will not consider MSB Discrete at all after this audition.



On 26th, I will audition Trinity Dac and Aqua Formula XHd with SGM Extreme server.

Let us see what happens.;)
 
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bonzo75

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These are my observations on trinity and aqua. You can also PM the owner Jazzhead (Since he is not very active on the forum these days) of this system, our it's been over a year since we did this demo and he later sold off trinity and aqua

http://zero-distortion.org/neodio-origine-vs-trinity-aqua-formula-and-stahltek-opus-prime/


I personally rate Golden gate much above Pacific. Some do, many don't.

Al and audioquattr owned Lampi and MSB next to each other, and preferred the Lampi. Mike preferred the select to his GG. I preferred the GG to select in a compare.

With Lampi, you need to rotate valves as it causes a big change in system gain and matching to downstream components. At audioquattr, for example, I preferred his analog to his Pacific with some valves, and his Pacific to his analog with some valves. He has tweaked his analog set up sons and I haven't heard

I think apart from Lampi the main one especially for you to consider is the Silbatone dac.
 
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sbo6

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Interesting how your impression of the Aqua is almost entirely the opposite of what I hear in my system (less extension and not nuanced enough for complex music) having owned the Formula for 2 years. I also have my Aqua on Stillpoints and it's the opposite from making my ears bleed. I will say the mids, highs and bass is very organic sounding so we're partially aligned there. Would love to hear from other Aqua owners their thoughts especially with another upgrade being made available.
 

sbo6

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May 18, 2014
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Round Rock, TX
View attachment 53067

On Dec 6th, 2018 I had attended Launching event of YG Acoustics Hailey 1.2 speakers in Seoul, Korea.

MSB Select II Dac and Pre was connected to Viola Legacy Mono Amplifier to drive the speakers.

Nordost Valhalla cables were used.

The system gave wide and deep soundstage with tight and tuneful bass.

There is no doubt it was top notch system in every way with the total cost of component over 200K $.





At the end of show, we decided to do interesting comparison between MSB Select Dac II (85K$) and vinyl system using Kronus turntable.

Kronus turntable was fed to Octave phono amp and Viola Pre amp,

MSB Select was used as Pre and Dac.


I got surprised to find that MSB and Kronus gave very similar sound.

MSB Select provided slightly more dense sound with little bit more details.

Kronus gave slightly more relaxed sound.


If I had to choose one, I would take Kronus over MSB on this music since I like relaxed sound as I get older.


But it could change with different music.

Unfortunately we could test only one music.

Other people may have different opinion.



Despite this conclusion, MSB Select II gave one of the best sound from any DAC that I had ever heard.

But Select II with price tag of 100K$ is out of reach for most of people.



Base Model of MSB Discrete Dac is under 10k$.

It is much affordable.


Now the question is how good MSB Discrete Dac is.


If possible, I would like to audition MSB Discrete Dac at my home.

But I could not find any dealer around Seattle area.

The closest one is located on Vancouver, Canada.


I welcome input from who experienced MSB Discrete Dac.
This is great to read. More proof that digital $ for $ even at the higher end = analog and in some cases is better.
 
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morricab

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View attachment 53149

I auditioned MSB Discrete, Premier and Lampiziator Pacific on 23rd May in Seoul, Korea.

The source was simple Roon Nucleus with Octave Tube pre and Viola Monoblocks.

I also added just one more power supply to MSB Discrete, Premier as suggested by other member.


I started with Discrete first.

It sounds balanced with good details which belies its price tag of 11,500$ with one more power supply.

I played two vocals(one classical and one Jazz) one classical concertos and one New Age.

After switching to Premier, the sound changed drastic with more refined sound and tone color.

The difference of sound between Discrete and Premier is not minor.

After listening to Premier, I can not go back to Discrete.


MSB discrete sounds just slightly better than my 10 years old EMMLab Dac2(New price 9K$).

No consideration for upgrade at all.


After switching to Pacific, the sound had more body, timber and bass slam.

Pacific cost 25K$ in USA so It may be fair to compare it with Premier with improved clock.

Unfortunately they did not have upgraded clock.

But the difference of sound between Pacific and Premier is not so drastic as those between Premier and Discrete.

I say Premier is better than Discrete by 40% but Pacific is better than Premier by 15%.

With power bass block or upgraded clock, Premier may match the sound of Pacific.


I try to limit my budget to 20K$.

Thus I had hoped that the difference between Premier and Discrete shall be minor.so that I can be happy with Discrete.

But I will not consider MSB Discrete at all after this audition.



On 26th, I will audition Trinity Dac and Aqua Formula XHd with SGM Extreme server.

Let us see what happens.;)
Talk to the US distributor for Aries Cerat and try to get a Kassandra or the new Helene Dac, which should fit under $20k.
 
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skids929

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Just ordered the Discrete with the Pro USB...Plan on getting the extra PS supply soon after I take delivery and settle in with it. I auditioned alot of DACs, coming close to just keeping the Rockna Wavelight DAC. Hopefully the Discrete out does it the Rockna.

Either way, this should prove to be a long term DAC that meets the sound playback I prefer. Smooth, neutral, detailed. I will report back to let everyone know my thoughts on it, with 1 and 2 power supplies as well.
 

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