I am sick of failing amplifiers

[Kingrex]

The last 3 amps I bought have all been duds. I bought an Altec Lansing 1570B redone by Tom Tutay with Transition Audio. I had to get into the amp and change out signal caps, input wires and solder a couple loose connections. After that the amps worked fine, but they were not quite what I was looking for.

Round 2 I figure I will get a new amp with a manufacturer warranty. This is maybe the 5th set of amps I'm buying. I buy the Ampsandsound Casablanca. They sound nice but I am plagued with humming I blame on home for years. In the end I have a different manufacturer get into the amps and $1,000 later the faulty internal grounding, incorrectly installed input and some other issues are corrected and the amps are now suppose to be much more quiet. I have not received them back yet.

In the interim I get excited about trying SET due to the long thread here. I buy a used pair of Audion Black Shadow. The sound is pretty good. Its not perfect. I have been struggling to get them to really click in my system. The problem now is in the last 2 weeks (3) three Telefunken E88cc and (1) one Amperex 6922 have all gone microphonic shrieking within days of being installed in the amps. I can blame 1, maybe 2 tubes on my tubes. But 4 is becoming an amp problem in my mind. Seeing how each of these tubes cost me close to $200, and they are dam hard to find good ones, I'm at full halt on music until I either spend thousands with the shipping to get the Black Shadow repaired. Or until my repaired Casablanca are returned. They are on a slight hold as its $200 round trip to ship them so I only sent one to ensure they could actually be repaired. I need to get the other in the mail.

In short, I'm getting pretty sick of audio crap. Crap being the headaches and just Crap gear. I have been wanting to try a SS amp, but honestly, I don't know I want a used one as it may just shit the can any time and be an anchor for my boat. And I'm tired of tubes. I even tried a new tube amp and got a turd. Or at least I had to send it to another shop that could understand why it had such bad humming issues and for the most part repair them. I have been advised, they will never be totally quiet due to the design.

Maybe I am just a snob now, but "new" these days is really out of my grasp as pricing is unreasonably high. I have steep expectations for PRAT. I want a decent amp. For goodness sakes, I cold purchase a darn nice car with the amount of money I have buried in my audio now. And I just keep bleeding, all with issues now. It's actually quite gut wrenching. When I got up today and fired up the system and a brand new set of Amperex 6922 started to squeal. My stomach really dropped out and I have been in a pissed off fog all day. This merry go round of wasted money on audio has to stop. And that is not just me now talking. My wife is really starting to put the screws down. She has had enough of the bleed herself. When I get upset over issues such as this, I'm getting the "dump the stereo if it does not make you happy". She may not be all that far off base. With all the fiddling, pondering, reading, modifying it takes to tune a setup to get the most, at some point, the fun in it starts to run dry. Failing amps is just flat out no fun. Not only do they make the owner mad, but decent relationships with audio members can really go sour when your sitting on used gear that is not working correct. Orrrrrr, is it something else that is really something else. At least when I bough my used CJ and the fuse blew every turn on, I had a real case to take to the seller. I got compensated for repairs there. God only knows why input tubes are going microphonic within days of being installed. Or a darn good tech. Of which am not.

 

[Lagonda]

The last 3 amps I bought have all been duds. I bought an Altec Lansing 1570B redone by Tom Tutay with Transition Audio. I had to get into the amp and change out signal caps, input wires and solder a couple loose connections. After that the amps worked fine, but they were not quite what I was looking for.

Round 2 I figure I will get a new amp with a manufacturer warranty. This is maybe the 5th set of amps I'm buying. I buy the Ampsandsound Casablanca. They sound nice but I am plagued with humming I blame on home for years. In the end I have a different manufacturer get into the amps and $1,000 later the faulty internal grounding, incorrectly installed input and some other issues are corrected and the amps are now suppose to be much more quiet. I have not received them back yet.

In the interim I get excited about trying SET due to the long thread here. I buy a used pair of Audion Black Shadow. The sound is pretty good. Its not perfect. I have been struggling to get them to really click in my system. The problem now is in the last 2 weeks (3) three Telefunken E88cc and (1) one Amperex 6922 have all gone microphonic shrieking within days of being installed in the amps. I can blame 1, maybe 2 tubes on my tubes. But 4 is becoming an amp problem in my mind. Seeing how each of these tubes cost me close to $200, and they are dam hard to find good ones, I'm at full halt on music until I either spend thousands with the shipping to get the Black Shadow repaired. Or until my repaired Casablanca are returned. They are on a slight hold as its $200 round trip to ship them so I only sent one to ensure they could actually be repaired. I need to get the other in the mail.

In short, I'm getting pretty sick of audio crap. Crap being the headaches and just Crap gear. I have been wanting to try a SS amp, but honestly, I don't know I want a used one as it may just shit the can any time and be an anchor for my boat. And I'm tired of tubes. I even tried a new tube amp and got a turd. Or at least I had to send it to another shop that could understand why it had such bad humming issues and for the most part repair them. I have been advised, they will never be totally quiet due to the design.

Maybe I am just a snob now, but "new" these days is really out of my grasp as pricing is unreasonably high. I have steep expectations for PRAT. I want a decent amp. For goodness sakes, I cold purchase a darn nice car with the amount of money I have buried in my audio now. And I just keep bleeding, all with issues now. It's actually quite gut wrenching. When I got up today and fired up the system and a brand new set of Amperex 6922 started to squeal. My stomach really dropped out and I have been in a pissed off fog all day. This merry go round of wasted money on audio has to stop. And that is not just me now talking. My wife is really starting to put the screws down. She has had enough of the bleed herself. When I get upset over issues such as this, I'm getting the "dump the stereo if it does not make you happy". She may not be all that far off base. With all the fiddling, pondering, reading, modifying it takes to tune a setup to get the most, at some point, the fun in it starts to run dry. Failing amps is just flat out no fun. Not only do they make the owner mad, but decent relationships with audio members can really go sour when your sitting on used gear that is not working correct. Orrrrrr, is it something else that is really something else. At least when I bough my used CJ and the fuse blew every turn on, I had a real case to take to the seller. I got compensated for repairs there. God only knows why input tubes are going microphonic within days of being installed. Or a darn good tech. Of which am not.

I feel for you ! Tried tubes for the first time last year. My Io Eclipse broke down after 6 months of use, had to be sent to the factory for repairs, spent extra $5k on an extra input and volume, and waited over 6 months til it was returned.
After 2 weeks it broke down again, the distributor in Sweden( a great guy) paid
transportation and had it repaired locally with sketchy help from Aesthetix, i truly feared a new trip to the US, and hope it will work a little longer this time, the phono has spent more time being repaired than played the last year

 

[analogsa]

For anyone who has spent time in this hobby it is clear that a good tech within a driving distance is essential to have on a speed dial. And by good i mean someone with the specific high end experience. Surely this is not so hard to arrange in most urban locations.

 

[microstrip]

I have been using mostly tube amplifiers from known manufacturers for tens of years. I can count on the fingers of the two hands the number of times I had problems with them, and any of them was easily serviced.

Surely I also ran into problems when I got "garage" built designs, or suspicious brands - some I could easily solve, others were only permanently solved selling them cheap as electronic waste.

As far as I see the situation many people have problems with tube equipment because they use poorly chosen tube replacements or do not replace them at due time - and people should remember that good tested and matched tubes can be expensive.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Kingrex, I feel for you. I struggled w Elrog 845s on my Black Shadows, although this was the tubes not the amps. The Audion Quattro preamp was a bugger from start to finish. I got rid of it, then the BSs...and invested in another tube amp that potentially could have let me down even worse. Thankfully they've been good for 5 years, other than preamp munching driver tubes leaving them not as quiet as they could be.
The only SS issues I've had related to Tom Evans phono, and I'd struggle to recommend the brand.
Good luck, and w yr wife...I find our partners are maybe the critical part of the audio chain Lol.

 

[Folsom]

I've never heard of any of that stuff. Why not try something like Decware?

I don't know anyone else with as bad of experience as you.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Kingrex,

I feel for you, too. You certainly have had more than your share of bad luck.

Modified vintage gear seems to me like a big risk from the get-go, unless the builder is somebody who is a world-renowned expert on that particular component.

I have never heard of the brand of the amplifier you bought new, so maybe that is not more than a garage-type "company." "One man band" manufacturers are inherently risky.

Tube components can be frustrating.

 

[dan31]

There are some nice SS amps to try. The pass labs xa25 might be just what you need. If you want to spend less the benchmark stereo amp has a low gain setting. Parasound is a great value if you want to spend less. I use the parasound zamp v3 in a second system, dead quiet.

 

[Al M.]

I have been using mostly tube amplifiers from known manufacturers for tens of years. I can count on the fingers of the two hands the number of times I had problems with them, and any of them was easily serviced.

My Octave RE 320 power amp runs flawlessly since 2.5 years on its first set of tubes, my newer Octave HP 700 preamp does so since one year. Both components, heavily used in my system, run a "soft start" procedure to prolong tube life.

As to the OP's post, I share steep expectations on PRAT, and it is to die for with this Octave gear.

 

[Empirical Audio]

The last 3 amps I bought have all been duds.

That's unfortunate for you. I have had pretty good experiences with the main 2 amps that I have used over the last 15 years, the Parasound JC-1 monoblocks (modded by me) and the Arte Forma Due Volte SET monoblocks (also modded by me).

The Parasound JC-1's are SS and a John Curl design. Unfortunately, the protection circuits were designed by someone else. If you short the output, it may be too slow to protect the amp and many output transistors can be fried. I always measured the outputs to make sure they were not shorted before powering on whenever I touched the cables.

The Arte Forma SET monoblocks were early prototypes, hand-made and point-to-point wired. I rewired them with better wire and twisted-pairs and better caps etc.. When I did this, I found a wiring error in one of the amps, so I corrected that. I also found that the 805A/T output tube would only last about 1 year and then the filament would open. To fix this, I installed an inrush limiter. Now, the output tubes can last for 3-5 years.

The new version of the Due Volte uses a circuit board, so it's unlikely that there will be any wiring errors anymore. This is an excellent SET design that is all DC-coupled and the iron for the output is first-class. Incredible bass and superb HF extension and dynamics. I can highly recommend these monoblocks. See:

http://arteformaaudio.com.tw/due-volte.asp

If you put the right tubes in these monoblocks, you will have years of trouble-free operation. You will still need to add the inrush limiter to the 805A/T filament voltage.

BTW, I recommend the NOS Siemens grey-plate CCA E88CC instead of the 6922 you are using. Get them on ebay.

If you are set on getting SS for your next amp, I can recommend Wells Audio or Merrill Audio.

 

[Kingrex]

Thanks all. I guess I was on a pretty sour rant. I'm still pretty off feeling. Provided my repaired Casablanca are as quiet as the last tech who worked on them said, I should be able to cover myself for a while. They have decent tone.

My preamp also uses the 6922 so what I have left working well has a good use. That First Sound preamp has been rock solid since I got it. I'm still on the first set of tubes and they sound just the same as any new set I put in to evaluate. I have never had a problem with my tube preamp.

Maybe this is the push I need to really evaluate what is a good, long lasting SS amp out there and make the move. I sure wish there were some shows running. I don't want to go jumping in not really knowing what is out there, and how it sounds "to me". So much talk about class D. There is a lot of chatter about good sound for not a lot of dough "New".,

 

[microstrip]

There are some nice SS amps to try. The pass labs xa25 might be just what you need. If you want to spend less the benchmark stereo amp has a low gain setting. Parasound is a great value if you want to spend less. I use the parasound zamp v3 in a second system, dead quiet.

You refer to brands known for high reliability. But even with SS people must be careful - many good sounding class A amplifiers were inadequately dimensioned and were a permanent source of problems, mainly due to the short life of the electrolytic capacitors due to the high current and temperature.

 

[Barry]

IMHO audio is largely a cottage industry, the owners of the audio companies are getting along in years (and may not be around when you need them), and audio reviews are a mixed bag at best, and a poor means of determining product reliability. Foreign companies may be difficult to communicate with and involve expensive shipping issues - US dealer networks are tenuous. It's hard to know what you're buying as there are no more bricks and mortar stores to go see and hear equipment. If you don't take all this into account when you buy a piece of equipment, you're likely to have problems. Yes, it limits your choices.

Finding a good tech is equally difficult, they are a dying breed too, literally. The best are always weeks or even months behind because they're so busy. Since most people don't understand what they bought, or what it takes to diagnose, or fix something; they often think they're being overcharged or taken advantage of. As stated above, a good tech (or two!) is absolutely essential. If you've been an audiophile for 50 years and never had a problem, you are a unicorn!

This really is a crazy hobby.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Maybe this is the push I need to really evaluate what is a good, long lasting SS amp out there and make the move

See:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9a240-wells-audio-innamorata-amplifier-solid-state

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa0c32-merrill-audio-veritas-solid-state

These should be trouble-free and a big improvement over what you have. In 15 years of going to shows, these impressed me the most. D'Agostino monoblocks are also very good, but a bit spendy.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...-power-amplifier-pair-m-400-24178-solid-state

I have had much better sound quality from tubes, so I'm partial to the SET monoblocks from Arte Forma. They are out of Singapore. I believe this guy may still be the US distributor:

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/mlgill

 

[microstrip]

(...) The Parasound JC-1's are SS and a John Curl design. Unfortunately, the protection circuits were designed by someone else. If you short the output, it may be too slow to protect the amp and many output transistors can be fried. I always measured the outputs to make sure they were not shorted before powering on whenever I touched the cables. (...)

As far as I see it this will happen with most high power highend SS amplifiers - a short in the output will kill a few output transistors or even fry the PCB tracks - a friend of mine stumbled the speaker cables in his Krell FPB600c's shorting the output while playing loud and the number of damaged output devices was very high.

What kind of modification did you carry in the Parasound JC-1's? After reading the debates in DIYaudio involving John Curl I got a pair a couple of years ago - it is now my reserve amplifier for those Summer hot days when I do not dare to turn-on tube amplifiers. An excellent match with the SoundLab's A1PX. BTW, the JC-2 is also very good sounding.

Do you have experience with the Jack Bybee Music Rails? https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US7521990.pdf

 

[DSkip]

Hey King, what kind of speakers do you use?

 

[BruceD]

Indeed Kingi!--I feel your pain we sometime are nothing but bunch of ego driven mascochists--

in my case I have front end source unit at $20/30K RRP with broken 5c part the size of your little finger nail.

My tech quoted me $2310 to repair--#%!!!!

K--I think I'll join you in the nuthouse

BruceD

 

[Empirical Audio]

As far as I see it this will happen with most high power highend SS amplifiers - a short in the output will kill a few output transistors or even fry the PCB tracks - a friend of mine stumbled the speaker cables in his Krell FPB600c's shorting the output while playing loud and the number of damaged output devices was very high.

What kind of modification did you carry in the Parasound JC-1's? After reading the debates in DIYaudio involving John Curl I got a pair a couple of years ago - it is now my reserve amplifier for those Summer hot days when I do not dare to turn-on tube amplifiers. An excellent match with the SoundLab's A1PX. BTW, the JC-2 is also very good sounding.

Do you have experience with the Jack Bybee Music Rails? https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US7521990.pdf

It is a complicated mod to the JC-1's and I still offer it. All of the wiring harnesses are replaced. Capacitors changed and added on the baseboard. Lots of new parts on the input board, including wiring changes. Rare new Black Gates on the boards. Planar ceramic power resistors. Control board changes to the inrush limiters. Adjust the Class-A cross-point. Makes a big difference in the slam factor and particularly HF dynamic response. More detail rendered and less of a "soft" top-end, which I never liked.

No experience with the Bybee Music Rails.

 

[thedudeabides]

I've had my Pass Labs X250.5 for 13 years now with an average of 2 to 3 hours a day of playtime. Other than a bug getting into the "needle assembly" that stopped the needle movement, no issues whatsoever. And no desire to upgrade. And if I sell, I can get 55% of what I initially paid. FYI, the JC1+ just hit the market.

 

[Kingrex]

See:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9a240-wells-audio-innamorata-amplifier-solid-state

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa0c32-merrill-audio-veritas-solid-state

These should be trouble-free and a big improvement over what you have. In 15 years of going to shows, these impressed me the most. D'Agostino monoblocks are also very good, but a bit spendy.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...-power-amplifier-pair-m-400-24178-solid-state

I have had much better sound quality from tubes, so I'm partial to the SET monoblocks from Arte Forma. They are out of Singapore. I believe this guy may still be the US distributor:

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/mlgill

Not sure why but Dagostino Wilson is not my cup of tea. Nothing can really point too. Only tube gear has given me goosebumps. Hence I have a hybrid open baffle/horn speaker and low power tube amps. When I hook my Allo Volt+D up, such as I have in now, im amazed at the linearity and quiet. But it does not make me stop and listen.