If you could..what would you......??

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
63
Beverly Hills, CA
#61
we did listen to the direct to disc pressing of Ray Brown--Laurindo Almeida 'Moonlight Serenade' with the double bass and guitar....but only on the ML3's as I recall.
Oh, yes, we did! I was not previously familiar with that track so I did not remember it. It was a stunningly realistic recording! I was transfixed listening to that.

Peter, I heard no driver integration issue whatsoever.

Mike, I am so glad you reminded me of that album! I even snapped photos of the front and back of the jacket, but I forgot to hunt down the LP for purchase. I could not find a sealed copy anywhere so I remedied the oversight which a couple of used LPs on Discogs! :)
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,054
33
48
Manila, Philippines
#62
Thanks Jack. My question was whether or not Ron listened to solo cello, piano or voice on MikeL's system. I also asked how the sound changed as he moved around the room. How did I answer that in the second paragraph?
By mentioning the other factors that Mike's speakers get right :)

I guess you can tell I'm an advocate of W-M/T-W designs :D To me, in general these configurations are the best combination of point source like imaging and even, room energizing mid-bass (even across a wide area in terms of height, width and depth). Generally speaking, speakers like Mike's have no problems with image stability over wide coverage areas as well as near field. As Ron mentions the driver distances are close together.

Cool thing is that there are "mini" or "smaller" concentric array speakers like those from Dynaudio, Monitor Audio, Triangle, Focus, Albedo, Endeavor, Tyler, Duntech , VSA's VR-100s and not just the really, really large like the Arrakis, VR-11s, U11s, MM3s, MM7s.

The only thing is these types are tall with lots of drivers and can dominate any room visually. Even the smaller ones. Not the best choice for a shared space for the vast majority to whom family acceptance factor matters. In a dedicated space however....yeehaw!

Overall though I think that while speakers can be made to work in spaces that may be small on the outset given smart planning, it is just easier to start with speakers in rooms they can breathe. One thing I did notice however is that there seems to be an exaggeration of just how much space is optimal. I dunno, maybe because exhibitors in shows have been putting small speakers in very large rooms 15 ft apart lately? HP's rule of thirds being applied where they shouldn't? shrug. Walls are our friends and too big a room is a harder problem to solve than too small IMO and IME. At the end of the day, it is always wise to ask the manufacturer how their speakers were intended to be placed and used. This information I believe, is very valuable.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
5,062
87
48
North Shore of Boston
#63
By mentioning the other factors that Mike's speakers get right :)

I guess you can tell I'm an advocate of W-M/T-W designs :D To me, in general these configurations are the best combination of point source like imaging and even, room energizing mid-bass (even across a wide area in terms of height, width and depth). Generally speaking, speakers like Mike's have no problems with image stability over wide coverage areas as well as near field. As Ron mentions the driver distances are close together.

Cool thing is that there are "mini" or "smaller" concentric array speakers like those from Dynaudio, Monitor Audio, Triangle, Focus, Albedo, Endeavor, Tyler, Duntech , VSA's VR-100s and not just the really, really large like the Arrakis, VR-11s, U11s, MM3s, MM7s.

The only thing is these types are tall with lots of drivers and can dominate any room visually. Even the smaller ones. Not the best choice for a shared space for the vast majority to whom family acceptance factor matters. In a dedicated space however....yeehaw!

Overall though I think that while speakers can be made to work in spaces that may be small on the outset given smart planning, it is just easier to start with speakers in rooms they can breathe. One thing I did notice however is that there seems to be an exaggeration of just how much space is optimal. I dunno, maybe because exhibitors in shows have been putting small speakers in very large rooms 15 ft apart lately? HP's rule of thirds being applied where they shouldn't? shrug. Walls are our friends and too big a room is a harder problem to solve than too small IMO and IME. At the end of the day, it is always wise to ask the manufacturer how their speakers were intended to be placed and used. This information I believe, is very valuable.
Thanks Jack.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,162
92
48
#64
Oh, yes, we did! I was not previously familiar with that track so I did not remember it. It was a stunningly realistic recording! I was transfixed listening to that.

Peter, I heard no driver integration issue whatsoever.

Mike, I am so glad you reminded me of that album! I even snapped photos of the front and back of the jacket, but I forgot to hunt down the LP for purchase. I could not find a sealed copy anywhere so I remedied the oversight which a couple of used LPs on Discogs! :)
it's a favorite of mine. I love the music.....and the way you have Beethoven and Monk so magically interweaved. the musical touch is outstanding for a direct to disc pressing which are sometimes less than spontaneous feeling.

Ray Brown's double bass is a real separator of a system's ability to make it real and capture both the texture, power and tone. it should project lots of power and seem in the room. it's also a good test for turntable feedback/isolation approaches as it will break down on the peaks if your system has lots of bass but not sufficient isolation. in my system, my tt is very close to my bass towers so it's especially pertinent.
 
Last edited:

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,162
92
48
#65
By mentioning the other factors that Mike's speakers get right :)

I guess you can tell I'm an advocate of W-M/T-W designs :D To me, in general these configurations are the best combination of point source like imaging and even, room energizing mid-bass (even across a wide area in terms of height, width and depth). Generally speaking, speakers like Mike's have no problems with image stability over wide coverage areas as well as near field. As Ron mentions the driver distances are close together.

Cool thing is that there are "mini" or "smaller" concentric array speakers like those from Dynaudio, Monitor Audio, Triangle, Focus, Albedo, Endeavor, Tyler, Duntech , VSA's VR-100s and not just the really, really large like the Arrakis, VR-11s, U11s, MM3s, MM7s.

The only thing is these types are tall with lots of drivers and can dominate any room visually. Even the smaller ones. Not the best choice for a shared space for the vast majority to whom family acceptance factor matters. In a dedicated space however....yeehaw!

Overall though I think that while speakers can be made to work in spaces that may be small on the outset given smart planning, it is just easier to start with speakers in rooms they can breathe. One thing I did notice however is that there seems to be an exaggeration of just how much space is optimal. I dunno, maybe because exhibitors in shows have been putting small speakers in very large rooms 15 ft apart lately? HP's rule of thirds being applied where they shouldn't? shrug. Walls are our friends and too big a room is a harder problem to solve than too small IMO and IME. At the end of the day, it is always wise to ask the manufacturer how their speakers were intended to be placed and used. This information I believe, is very valuable.
+1 both on the coherent driver configurations and the 'right sizing' and placement of speakers in rooms. at some shows, rooms are so large you have to think near-field to get 'hook-up' on detail and musical energy. there are no rules preventing situational adaption. the listener has to have the correct musical energy connection first. you can't fix that if the listener is too far away (or the speakers are too far apart). if you can't get sufficient boundary reinforcement, then you have to find the energy with proximity.
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,054
33
48
Manila, Philippines
#66
Exactly :D
 
Aug 6, 2012
1,386
7
38
Milford, Michigan
#67
If money was no object the MBL X-Treme would be my only choice. I would have to move my set-up into one of my large rooms. I doubt I would ever pay that much for speakers so I have seriously been considering going with the 101 MK ii's. I doubt there is anything else I would consider.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
63
Beverly Hills, CA
#69
it's a favorite of mine. I love the music.....and the way you have Beethoven and Monk so magically interweaved. the musical touch is outstanding for a direct to disc pressing which are sometimes less than spontaneous feeling.

Ray Brown's double bass is a real separator of a system's ability to make it real and capture both the texture, power and tone. it should project lots of power and seem in the room. it's also a good test for turntable feedback/isolation approaches as it will break down on the peaks if your system has lots of bass but not sufficient isolation. in my system, my tt is very close to my bass towers so it's especially pertinent.

+1

Thanks to Peter I just learned that there was a reissue, as well as the original direct-to-disc that Mike played for me. I had ordered three used records, and it turns out that only two of them were the original, so I was able to cancel the inadvertent order for the reissue.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
63
Beverly Hills, CA
#70
If money was no object the MBL X-Treme would be my only choice. I would have to move my set-up into one of my large rooms. I doubt I would ever pay that much for speakers so I have seriously been considering going with the 101 MK ii's. I doubt there is anything else I would consider.
That, to me, is a very interesting first choice, coming from big Wilsons. And I understand it. I was floored when I heard the 101E Mk. IIs for the very first time.

What do you like most about what you hear with the MBLs? (I suspect your Dag amps would be great on the MBLs!)
 

LL21

Active Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,589
10
38
#71
Lloyd, at the time when I heard the Nautilus, I don't think the XLF's were out, or for that matter the Focal Grandes. However, having heard the Focal's and the XLF's since, I would say that the Nautilus is a superior sounding speaker to the Focal's ( which to be honest do very little for me) and in some ways better than the XLF's. ( although the sense of scale from the XLF's is better). I thought that the Nautilus was exemplary in its imaging abilities and in overall tonal reproduction ( and in this way superior to the XLF's!). Now remember, I heard these speakers with very different ancillary gear and in very different rooms etc., Therefore, saying one is better than the other is not really fair. Although, I have heard the Focals on several occasions , they did not impress me that much; whereas when I heard the Nautilus it was extremely impressive. Today, there are a few speakers that i would take over it, but not too many.
If you ever get a chance to hear the original Nautilus, it's certainly very well worth while to do so.
Can you run the Nautilus with one stereo amp? i have heard they can be run with multiple amps...but do they have to be?
 
Aug 6, 2012
1,386
7
38
Milford, Michigan
#72
That, to me, is a very interesting first choice, coming from big Wilsons. And I understand it. I was floored when I heard the 101E Mk. IIs for the very first time.

What do you like most about what you hear with the MBLs? (I suspect your Dag amps would be great on the MBLs!)
Prior to moving to my X2's I owned 111f's (and before that 111e's). I have always enjoyed the soundstage of MBL from my first listen. When I actually heard properly set-up X-Tremes it was an my audio epiphany. I have never heard any system since (9 years ago) that comes close to what I heard then. It was as if the room was energized by the music.

I understand that not everyone likes omni-directional speakers and prefer that tight centered soundstage. I have no complaints with my current set-up but do miss that "live concert" feel I derive from MBL's better speakers.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,369
150
63
Beverly Hills, CA
#73
Prior to moving to my X2's I owned 111f's (and before that 111e's). I have always enjoyed the soundstage of MBL from my first listen. When I actually heard properly set-up X-Tremes it was an my audio epiphany. I have never heard any system since (9 years ago) that comes close to what I heard then. It was as if the room was energized by the music.

I understand that not everyone likes omni-directional speakers and prefer that tight centered soundstage. I have no complaints with my current set-up but do miss that "live concert" feel I derive from MBL's better speakers.
I understand. Those speakers surely do energize the room!
 
Jan 7, 2018
76
1
8
#75
I bought the Salon2, but had the VA 'The Music" or Raidho D1.1 been local I would have found a way to hear them in my listening room. Truly can't even dream bigger than this, must be getting old and practical:(
 

asiufy

Member Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
2,830
49
48
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
#76
Very easy... One end of the room with YG Sonja XV and D'Agostino Relentless, and the other end a WAMM with darTZeel 468.
Wire an MSB SELECT to both, and I'm all set :) And for fun, I'd have the amps on wheeled platforms, so I could move them between the two speakers!


cheers,
Alex
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,862
52
48
La Jolla, Calif USA
#77
Alex, LOL. Your room is so huge that not only do you have plenty of room for the two systems you mention, but you could also place a full size grand piano into the middle and have plenty of room for an audience around it! Kind of reminds me of the space ( HUGE hall) that was being utilized by Magico a few years back when they demo'ed their new S7's along with the Synergistic room treatments. The space was so large, that there were people in the rear talking away...and nobody at the front heard a word they were saying...and they weren't talking softly! ( no, yours isn't quite that crazy size!)
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
331
10
18
Munich
#78
In my dreams I'd like a custom 3-way horn system with a plasma horn supertweeter and a linear-basshorn that goes down to 10hz. All driven by my own tube-amplifier design.

In the real world I'll would be happy with an active crossover-biamped apoggee scintilla.
 
Aug 2, 2013
233
10
18
#79
I would be very happy with a new set of Magnepan 3.7i
 

christoph

Active Member
Dec 12, 2015
558
75
28
Principality of Liechtenstein
#80
In my dreams I'd like a custom 3-way horn system with a plasma horn supertweeter and a linear-basshorn that goes down to 10hz. All driven by my own tube-amplifier design.

In the real world I'll would be happy with an active crossover-biamped apoggee scintilla.
I like both of your wishes but I would go with Henk refurbished Apogee FullRanges. Scintillas I already had ;)

After re-reading this thread, I think I would invite @kodomo to my place for an extended period of time and let him go wild with a passive multiway horn System like his :D
If possible with Plasma horn tweeter. Are they able to do 100dB?
The Subwoofer could use the room over the winter garden/TV room (should be a few thousand Liters).
 

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