Improving digital sound

[Echolane]

I'm at the point where I have all the main equipment to stream Roon to my two other audio systems but I haven't addressed the noise that I keep reading about that seems to infect digital streaming and I'd like to address this area, within reasonable financial boundaries of course. Honestly, I don't know enough about digital noise to store on the head of a pin, so t's hard to know which questions to ask (!) and what makes a good investment.

For example, I've heard raves about the EtherRegen and how it improves sq. But do I need it? I already have the Berkeley Alpha USB. Do I still want the Ether Regen? Where do I put it? What are some other choices?

What about replacing the wall warts with a linear power supply like HDPLEX – 200W LPSU LINEAR POWER SUPPLY (NEW VERSION) which I liked because it services more than one component and I have all warts at the Router and the Switch.

Are these noise reducing "gadgets" a good investment? I have four audio systems which I stream to via Roon Nucleus located at my computer.

I have this at my computer:
Netgear Nighthawk R7000 Router (wall wart)
Netgear Ethernet Switch (wall wart)
Roon Nucleus (wall wart)
Berkeley Alpha USB
Audio Alchemy DMP-1 Media Player and Roon endpoint
Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC which shares the Audio Alchemy PS-5 LPS with the DMP-1
Audiomat Arpege tube into amp
Spendor S3/5 speakers



I also have major stereo systems in my living room and the TV room. Roon can stream to all of my stereo systems, but I’m told that noise reduction is not necessary when at some distance from the computer. Is that so? However, I do have a Netgear Ethernet switch at each system and that means there is a wall wart there.

Also mentioned was how noisy Ethernet cables can be. I have Blue Jeans Ethernet cables and was told they were particularly noisy. Does that mean I have to buy Shunyata or equivalent cables everywhere I have a switch? (Ouch!).

 

[Sablon Audio]

I would definitely recommend using better LPS for router / switch / nucleus. Plixir is a decent option in terms of value / quality / availability. You will also make great gains with better ethernet cables.

 

[Mikem53]

I'm at the point where I have all the main equipment to stream Roon to my two other audio systems but I haven't addressed the noise that I keep reading about that seems to infect digital streaming and I'd like to address this area, within reasonable financial boundaries of course. Honestly, I don't know enough about digital noise to store on the head of a pin, so t's hard to know which questions to ask (!) and what makes a good investment.

For example, I've heard raves about the EtherRegen and how it improves sq. But do I need it? I already have the Berkeley Alpha USB. Do I still want the Ether Regen? Where do I put it? What are some other choices?

What about replacing the wall warts with a linear power supply like HDPLEX – 200W LPSU LINEAR POWER SUPPLY (NEW VERSION) which I liked because it services more than one component and I have all warts at the Router and the Switch.

Are these noise reducing "gadgets" a good investment? I have four audio systems which I stream to via Roon Nucleus located at my computer.

I have this at my computer:
Netgear Nighthawk R7000 Router (wall wart)
Netgear Ethernet Switch (wall wart)
Roon Nucleus (wall wart)
Berkeley Alpha USB
Audio Alchemy DMP-1 Media Player and Roon endpoint
Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC which shares the Audio Alchemy PS-5 LPS with the DMP-1
Audiomat Arpege tube into amp
Spendor S3/5 speakers



I also have major stereo systems in my living room and the TV room. Roon can stream to all of my stereo systems, but I’m told that noise reduction is not necessary when at some distance from the computer. Is that so? However, I do have a Netgear Ethernet switch at each system and that means there is a wall wart there.

Also mentioned was how noisy Ethernet cables can be. I have Blue Jeans Ethernet cables and was told they were particularly noisy. Does that mean I have to buy Shunyata or equivalent cables everywhere I have a switch? (Ouch!).

I’m running the same router and have similar upgrades planned, but maybe not to the extent you listed.
I have reduced some switches making my Ethernet path more direct. from my cable modem to my router and directly from router I ran a separate CAT6A to my MBP, cutting out one of the switches And replacing the CAT5e cables.
Im keeping an open mind, but I’m not necessarily subscribing to all these so called tweaks. I’ve seen switching PS that have less peak to peak “noise” than some linear PS.
I chose the Bluejeans CAT6a based on the low noise claimed, even came with a tech sheet for the cable showing the cable specs. I upgraded my USB cable from generic to a Shunyata USB audio cable..
Trying to keep an open mind when it comes to some of these “tweaks”. Being an IT techie all my life, it’s hard to accept some of these claims, but over the course of 5+ decades of audio... I’ve learned to accept the unexplained, and that there is some artistry and intangibles that make a perceived sonic difference..

 

[agillis]

I'm at the point where I have all the main equipment to stream Roon to my two other audio systems but I haven't addressed the noise that I keep reading about that seems to infect digital streaming and I'd like to address this area, within reasonable financial boundaries of course. Honestly, I don't know enough about digital noise to store on the head of a pin, so t's hard to know which questions to ask (!) and what makes a good investment.

For example, I've heard raves about the EtherRegen and how it improves sq. But do I need it? I already have the Berkeley Alpha USB. Do I still want the Ether Regen? Where do I put it? What are some other choices?

What about replacing the wall warts with a linear power supply like HDPLEX – 200W LPSU LINEAR POWER SUPPLY (NEW VERSION) which I liked because it services more than one component and I have all warts at the Router and the Switch.

Are these noise reducing "gadgets" a good investment? I have four audio systems which I stream to via Roon Nucleus located at my computer.

I have this at my computer:
Netgear Nighthawk R7000 Router (wall wart)
Netgear Ethernet Switch (wall wart)
Roon Nucleus (wall wart)
Berkeley Alpha USB
Audio Alchemy DMP-1 Media Player and Roon endpoint
Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC which shares the Audio Alchemy PS-5 LPS with the DMP-1
Audiomat Arpege tube into amp
Spendor S3/5 speakers



I also have major stereo systems in my living room and the TV room. Roon can stream to all of my stereo systems, but I’m told that noise reduction is not necessary when at some distance from the computer. Is that so? However, I do have a Netgear Ethernet switch at each system and that means there is a wall wart there.

Also mentioned was how noisy Ethernet cables can be. I have Blue Jeans Ethernet cables and was told they were particularly noisy. Does that mean I have to buy Shunyata or equivalent cables everywhere I have a switch? (Ouch!).

If you switch to a network player with optical Ethernet then you won't need new supplies for your Nucleus, ethernet switch etc or a new Ethernet switch.

Optical fiber filters out 100% of the network noise so if you did some like this

Netgear Ethernet Switch -> Media converter -> fiber -> opticalRendu -> USB -> Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC

then only the opticalRendu and Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC would need good power supplies. The noise of all other devices on the network would be filtered out.

And all Ethernet cables are eliminated from the "clean" side so you don't need any expensive ethernet cables.

This is probability your lowest cost solution to the best sound.

 

[Echolane]

If you switch to a network player with optical Ethernet then you won't need new supplies for your Nucleus, ethernet switch etc or a new Ethernet switch.

Optical fiber filters out 100% of the network noise so if you did some like this

Netgear Ethernet Switch -> Media converter -> fiber -> opticalRendu -> USB -> Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC

then only the opticalRendu and Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC would need good power supplies. The noise of all other devices on the network would be filtered out.

And all Ethernet cables are eliminated from the "clean" side so you don't need any expensive ethernet cables.

This is probability your lowest cost solution to the best sound.

Andrew, This is the kind of advice I had hoped for - thank you! I would love it if I didn’t need new gadgets for the Nucleus, the Ethernet switch (or a new Ethernet switch (do I need a new Ethernet switch??))..

But I have to confess that that the digital world and the many gadgets and new terminology continue to confuse me! For example, I am confused about your suggestion which starts with the Netgear Ethernet Switch -> Media Converter -> etc. Does it mean I would have to replace my Berkeley Alpha USB?. The Alpha USB comes between my computer and my DAC. Its input is a USB cable from my computer and it outputs AES/EBU to my DDP-1 DAC and it presumably tames USB noise. This is where I am getting really confused..... Doesn’t your recommendation of Media Converter > fiber > opticalRendu > duplicate what the Alpha USB is doing? Which tames USB noise. OTOH, your recommendation seems to tame Ethernet noise. Which brings me back to a confused state as both those solutions lead to the DAC.

Continuing on, can you clarify what do you mean by “new network player” in your first sentence? (If you switch to a network player with optical Ethernet....). can you give me an example here? or which product do you mean to suggest I replace?

Thinking this might be helpful, my present music chain looks like this:

Computer via USB > Berkeley Alpha DAC via digital AES/EBU cable > Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC* > PS-5 linear power supply* > Audiomat Arpege int.amp > Spendor S3/5 Speakers.
and
Netgear Nighthawk R-7000 Router > BJC Ethernet cable >
Netgear Ethernet switch > BJC Ethernet Cable > Intel Nucleus
Netgear Ethernet Switch > BJC Ethernet Cable > 1st Computer
Netgear Ethernet Switch > BJC Ethernet Cable > 2nd Computer



* The Audio Alchemy DAC has its own Audio Alchemy PS-5 linear power supply.

 

[Echolane]

I’m running the same router and have similar upgrades planned, but maybe not to the extent you listed.
I have reduced some switches making my Ethernet path more direct. from my cable modem to my router and directly from router I ran a separate CAT6A to my MBP, cutting out one of the switches And replacing the CAT5e cables.
Im keeping an open mind, but I’m not necessarily subscribing to all these so called tweaks. I’ve seen switching PS that have less peak to peak “noise” than some linear PS.
I chose the Bluejeans CAT6a based on the low noise claimed, even came with a tech sheet for the cable showing the cable specs. I upgraded my USB cable from generic to a Shunyata USB audio cable..
Trying to keep an open mind when it comes to some of these “tweaks”. Being an IT techie all my life, it’s hard to accept some of these claims, but over the course of 5+ decades of audio... I’ve learned to accept the unexplained, and that there is some artistry and intangibles that make a perceived sonic difference..

I vacillate between thinking I have to adopt all of the most reasonable tweaks but then I hesitate because I am equally challenged by my ignorance of so many gadgets and how they work or why they are needed. When a so-called expert insists there is digital noise I want to tame that noise, but I wish I could hear the noise before I applied taming methods and then after. That’s likely to be too expensive or impossible to accomplish. I just don’t understand enough to KNOW what to do.

I’ve always been impressed by the extra verbiage on the BJC website, the way they test their Ethernet cables, the way they explain about HDMI cables, etc. It builds trust and as a result I have BJCables all over my house on all of my systems, whether interconnects or speaker wire or Ethernet cables and so on. So I was dismayed to learn that BJC Ethernet cables are among the worst offenders in producing digital noise. This according to experts in my audio club. I’ve been advised to use Shunyata cables out of my switches. I’d love to but even short lengths are rudely expensive and I would need around five or six of them.<sigh>?

 

[plasmod3]

I'm at the point where I have all the main equipment to stream Roon to my two other audio systems but I haven't addressed the noise that I keep reading about that seems to infect digital streaming and I'd like to address this area, within reasonable financial boundaries of course. Honestly, I don't know enough about digital noise to store on the head of a pin, so t's hard to know which questions to ask (!) and what makes a good investment.

For example, I've heard raves about the EtherRegen and how it improves sq. But do I need it? I already have the Berkeley Alpha USB. Do I still want the Ether Regen? Where do I put it? What are some other choices?

What about replacing the wall warts with a linear power supply like HDPLEX – 200W LPSU LINEAR POWER SUPPLY (NEW VERSION) which I liked because it services more than one component and I have all warts at the Router and the Switch.

Are these noise reducing "gadgets" a good investment? I have four audio systems which I stream to via Roon Nucleus located at my computer.

I have this at my computer:
Netgear Nighthawk R7000 Router (wall wart)
Netgear Ethernet Switch (wall wart)
Roon Nucleus (wall wart)
Berkeley Alpha USB
Audio Alchemy DMP-1 Media Player and Roon endpoint
Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC which shares the Audio Alchemy PS-5 LPS with the DMP-1
Audiomat Arpege tube into amp
Spendor S3/5 speakers



I also have major stereo systems in my living room and the TV room. Roon can stream to all of my stereo systems, but I’m told that noise reduction is not necessary when at some distance from the computer. Is that so? However, I do have a Netgear Ethernet switch at each system and that means there is a wall wart there.

Also mentioned was how noisy Ethernet cables can be. I have Blue Jeans Ethernet cables and was told they were particularly noisy. Does that mean I have to buy Shunyata or equivalent cables everywhere I have a switch? (Ouch!).

have a look at a melco switch and connect your roon system to the melco with fiber - viola noise gone as much as possible. thats how i have mine set up.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

When a so-called expert insists there is digital noise I want to tame that noise, but I wish I could hear the noise before I applied taming methods and then after.

Aha! I think you are on to something.

 

[plasmod3]

Aha! I think you are on to something.

noise is not static that you hear from a speaker ...the concept is not what you can hear but rather what you are not hearing. looking at it from another angle - it is the character of the music , detail, clarity and nuances that get obscured by 'noise' for lack of a better word.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

noise is not static that you hear from a speaker ...the concept is not what you can hear but rather what you are not hearing. looking at it from another angle - it is the character of the music , detail, clarity and nuances that get obscured by 'noise' for lack of a better word.

I know that is the premise.

 

[Mikem53]

I vacillate between thinking I have to adopt all of the most reasonable tweaks but then I hesitate because I am equally challenged by my ignorance of so many gadgets and how they work or why they are needed. When a so-called expert insists there is digital noise I want to tame that noise, but I wish I could hear the noise before I applied taming methods and then after. That’s likely to be too expensive or impossible to accomplish. I just don’t understand enough to KNOW what to do.

I’ve always been impressed by the extra verbiage on the BJC website, the way they test their Ethernet cables, the way they explain about HDMI cables, etc. It builds trust and as a result I have BJCables all over my house on all of my systems, whether interconnects or speaker wire or Ethernet cables and so on. So I was dismayed to learn that BJC Ethernet cables are among the worst offenders in producing digital noise. This according to experts in my audio club. I’ve been advised to use Shunyata cables out of my switches. I’d love to but even short lengths are rudely expensive and I would need around five or six of them.<sigh>?

I feel your pain.. I also use cables from BJC, Canare, acoustic Zen... for same reasons you mentioned.
Im always trying to improve my system but spend too much time looking for what might be missing..
I really enjoy my system as is, but always looking for a brighter rainbow. I’m not at a level where expensive cables will make big improvements in my system, Money is better spent elsewhere first, I’m more into optimizing and simplifying, using what I have. My system really sounds good and I’ve been enjoying the music! Beware Of some of those so called experts and wild claims.. Maybe just listen to more music instead.. I’m trying to practice what I preach..

 

[rbbert]

What are "MBP" and "MBA" in your systems?

 

[Mikem53]

What are "MBP" and "MBA" in your systems?

MacBook Pro, MacBook Air Jrivers and as a streamer

 

[plasmod3]

I feel your pain.. I also use cables from BJC, Canare, acoustic Zen... for same reasons you mentioned.
Im always trying to improve my system but spend too much time looking for what might be missing..
I really enjoy my system as is, but always looking for a brighter rainbow. I’m not at a level where expensive cables will make big improvements in my system, Money is better spent elsewhere first, I’m more into optimizing and simplifying, using what I have. My system really sounds good and I’ve been enjoying the music! Beware Of some of those so called experts and wild claims.. Maybe just listen to more music instead.. I’m trying to practice what I preach..

Ye indeed Mikem, anyone can be a expert but there are bias and hidden agendas behind them - in this day and age unfortunately none more true than our hobby - snake oil peddlers are aplenty happy to empty your shekles. Never take advice enface - and if you can't listen - do not buy. I have been caught out and it was an expensive lesson.

 

[Echolane]

have a look at a melco switch and connect your roon system to the melco with fiber - viola noise gone as much as possible. thats how i have mine set up.

I looked at the Melco switch and I wish I had the money to pay for it. I would struggle to justify one and I would need three. This is one of my discoveries (and pet peeves) about going digital, that after you buy the necessary gear you're not really done; instead you need to spend equal or greater amounts to shut down noise.

 

[Echolane]

I feel your pain.. I also use cables from BJC, Canare, acoustic Zen... for same reasons you mentioned.
Im always trying to improve my system but spend too much time looking for what might be missing..
I really enjoy my system as is, but always looking for a brighter rainbow. I’m not at a level where expensive cables will make big improvements in my system, Money is better spent elsewhere first, I’m more into optimizing and simplifying, using what I have. My system really sounds good and I’ve been enjoying the music! Beware Of some of those so called experts and wild claims.. Maybe just listen to more music instead.. I’m trying to practice what I preach..

I'm a prime candidate for unwittingly succumbing to so called experts and wild claims. I don't think I've wasted too much money pursuing impossible dreams just yet, but the point is I would like to. So far I have purchased one beefed up power cable. I cannot for the life of me hear any difference and I hate its fat anatomy which makes it impossible to fit neatly behind my stereo console. And besides all that it wants to fall out of the socket and I kept thinking it will stretch the socket on my precious Oppo 205. I finally removed it and it sits in my closet. The other thing I've purchased is hospital grade sockets. I seriously doubt they've made a difference but I do feel they make a tight fit and I suppose that's good for something. My husband clearly thought I was chasing angels, but he was kind enough to install them. I really wish I had a degree that would better fit my audio needs of today.

 

[DoctorWhy]

If you switch to a network player with optical Ethernet then you won't need new supplies for your Nucleus, ethernet switch etc or a new Ethernet switch.

Optical fiber filters out 100% of the network noise so if you did some like this

Netgear Ethernet Switch -> Media converter -> fiber -> opticalRendu -> USB -> Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC

then only the opticalRendu and Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC would need good power supplies. The noise of all other devices on the network would be filtered out.

And all Ethernet cables are eliminated from the "clean" side so you don't need any expensive ethernet cables.

This is probability your lowest cost solution to the best sound.

Hey Andrew,

You make some bold recommendations and then fail to respond to questions. As an industry leader, MORE is expected of you. Please respond to ALL questions posed to you
Thanks

 

[Onepoint5]

When experiencing crappy sounding digital it's usually from the DAC forward to the music files. This entails cables, servers, and Ethernet devices, switches, routers and the like. I first noticed that USB cables can attenuate either common mode or differential mode noise. The results ranged from 'switch it off' to a smile, or a wow sometimes. The yardstick I use is listening to music and if any of:

a) - Soundstage
b) - Placement of instruments and voices
c) - Stage Height
d) - Details that are easily heard

then there's too much noise afoot that wrecks the signal enough for the DAC to process wrongly. Comparison is a direct A-B with SACD or CD against the digital rip of the same spinning media. Spinning media has trumped digital, but only recently has there been a razor thin line between the two. Equipment List

In assessing noise, the source needs to be known, then work out how to eliminate, shunt (bypass), or block. For rendering Ethernet systems, routers, switches are noisy. I cannot afford the uber switches, and they cannot 'eliminate'. All they could do is partially block or shunt to a low noise, is that a start? No. Effective means is blocking common and differential mode noise created by switches, routers, computers, SMPS the lot to the DAC.

I use a Lumin U1 and USB cables to DAC, so the primary source of noise is all the above dirty IT 'equipment'. To block noise from the router/switch, I leave them as is with SMPS powered from a separate transformer, like all my IT equipment and use a simple Baaske filter which blocks common mode noise dead to the JCAT NET Femto NIC in the music server. The 2nd port is wired directly to the Lumin U1. The sound is very good, has all the attributes I wish to retain, but it's still not quite to SACD/CD standard.

Enter the EtherRegen. I gave it a week and was ready to throw it in the toilet. a) to d) were either low, non existent, or made the sound worse. After 2 weeks of breakin, the sound is now so close to SACD/CD. Probably, the capacitors in the EtherRegen were behaving more like resistors and letting the noise through in retropsect.

An important rework is in the computer interior, a veritable treasure of SMPS and PWM controllers, the blatant enemy to great reproduction in a DAC. All exposed metal in standard ATX style towers is pop riveted, not welded usually. This creates a bad place that creates voltage drops over the metal fueled by noise. To shunt this noise, hard drives, mobo, output PCIe cards were star bonded to one point on the chassis using braids and wires, like they used to in the olden days of computing. This rework yielded a major uptick in SQ and it's DIY. Details are here.

Power supplies for the secondary type of equipment like EtherRegen can be powered from an LPS. Which one is best? The one that interferes the least on the AC side, that will sound the best. Plug that into the same IT garbage AC network on that separate transformer. AC crud can live with the other garbage quite happily, but it won't cross to audio components, you do have a Topaz for that, right?

This post is a summary of what worked for me over the last 12 months. It works for me at low cost, direct connections and no inkling to use fibre cables, and the messy media converters it needs.

 

[StreamFidelity]

An important rework is in the computer interior, a veritable treasure of SMPS and PWM controllers, the blatant enemy to great reproduction in a DAC.

Thank you for the interesting contribution. I think a lot of what you write is right.

You linked that. Is it allowed to post a photo from it here? I hope.

I am posting another pictures for this.

I think the differences are obvious. In my opinion, a good Audio PC must:

- be fanless,
- have high-quality and precisely fitting cabling
- have a reference class gaming board with a stress-resistant power supply
- be equipped with a linear power supply
- have a resonance-free chassis

Of course, this building is not perfect either. SMPS and PWM controllers are still active on the motherboard.

(To better classify my contribution, the disclosure of my financial interests: I sell the illustrated fis Audio PC in Europe.)

 

[Onepoint5]

Thank you for the interesting contribution. I think a lot of what you write is right.

You linked that. Is it allowed to post a photo from it here? I hope.

I am posting another pictures for this.

I think the differences are obvious. In my opinion, a good Audio PC must:

- be fanless,
- have high-quality and precisely fitting cabling
- have a reference class gaming board with a stress-resistant power supply
- be equipped with a linear power supply
- have a resonance-free chassis

Of course, this building is not perfect either. SMPS and PWM controllers are still active on the motherboard.

(To better classify my contribution, the disclosure of my financial interests: I sell the illustrated fis Audio PC in Europe.)

There's a few ways to experiment and try to keep the noise inside the computer and avoid any conducted noise via Ethernet or USB .

With a DMM measure various chassis points like the expansion cards and mobo to the psu ground, it must be 0V. If not add a Braid to keep the potential low.

Fans are ok if they are low noise and driven from an external fixed supply. My server is in the garage, where only the spiders hear the noise of fans . At 25m cable length, there's some natural attenuation of noise between the server and Lumin, the ER blocks the rest.

I chose a Xeon since my old server HP Z800 was actually great sounding, but reliability problems caused me to build a new one. The Xeon just does the job, although now AMD 8 core and tasks split over the cores seem a good way out.

Your server looks good, but needs a metal top and wire to bond it to the rest of the case