In the enemy camp

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Gregadd

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I noticed that a certain audio forum had reviews of some headphones I was interested in. Despite this forum being heavy on measurements I decided to join. It is much easier to navigate a forum if you are a member as opposed to a casual visitor. It turned out that they had in fact reviewed the Sennheiser HD800S I found it to be informative and well done complete with measurements.
I had elected not to use my normal screen name of gregadd. I chose the name Judas. The name of the Forum is Audio Science Review Forum and the thread is Message to Golden Earded Audiophiles posting at ASR for the first tine. Although I don't have Golden Ears nor do any such thing exist, I was pretty sure they were referring to me. I decided t check it out.

I did not see anything new. It was the usual attacks on audiophiles. Blind testing, measurements, not trusting your ears, only speakers and room matter, etc. You know the drill . There were plenty of members chiming in about how happy they were since they had drunk the Kool Aid. My First instinct was to move on. But what the heck I new I could neve change their mind but I could not resist the temptation to jerk their chain.
I then informed them that I held a view contrary to their own. There first response was to treat me politely as though I were ignorant and just need to be enlightened. But when I still refused to drink their tone changed dramatically . Calling me a troll and following up with the usual ad hominem attacks. Ultimately I was blocked from the thread for being a troll and lacking scientific evidence. After being blocked they continue to attack me. I am not banned just censored.
I should have known better.
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I noticed that a certain audio forum had reviews of some headphones I was interested in. Despite this forum being heavy on measurements I decided to join. It is much easier to navigate a forum if you are a member as opposed to a casual visitor. It turned out that they had in fact reviewed the Sennheiser HD800S I found it to be informative and well done complete with measurements.
I had elected not to use my normal screen name of gregadd. I chose the name Judas. The name of the Forum is Audio Science Review Forum and the thread is Message to Golden Earded Audiophiles posting at ASR for the first tine. Although I don't have Golden Ears nor do any such thing exist, I was pretty sure they were referring to me. I decided t check it out.

I did not see anything new. It was the usual attacks on audiophiles. Blind testing, measurements, not trusting your ears, only speakers and room matter, etc. You know the drill . There were plenty of members chiming in about how happy they were since they had drunk the Kool Aid. My First instinct was to move on. But what the heck I new I could neve change their mind but I could not resist the temptation to jerk their chain.
I then informed them that I held a view contrary to their own. There first response was to treat me politely as though I were ignorant and just need to be enlightened. But when I still refused to drink their tone changed dramatically . Calling me a troll and following up with the usual ad hominem attacks. Ultimately I was blocked from the thread for being a troll and lacking scientific evidence. After being blocked they continue to attack me. I am not banned just censored.
I should have known better.
You should have indeed known better. That’s Amir’s forum. :eek:
 

Gregadd

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Steve Hope springs eternal. Color me red.:mad:
 

spiritofmusic

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Maybe these guys believe you must have a Nobel Prize in chemistry to be a reasonable cook.
 

Robh3606

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You know it's really a shame that either of these Forums be considered the "enemy camp" I am member of both and typically don't have any issues. More importantly both sides could learn from the other if they took the time to not be provocative and actually listen to what others have to say.

Rob :)
 
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rbbert

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I have noticed an unfortunate tendency in engineers of a certain intelligence level (much smarter than average but not genius) to need to be "right" (and of course this is not confined to engineers but that is what is most relevant to this discussion). That personality quirk is on full display at ASR; it's too bad that they can't realize that this is not rocket science or biomedical engineering but rather a hobby (although admittedly one with some serious money involved).

I have never found that trait to be present in true geniuses in any field, and of course those of us with more experience and less intelligence know that we can never always be right.
 
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Gregadd

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J wonder if they would tell Betsy Devoss that all yachts are the same/? Or Jay Leno all cars are the same?
 

thedudeabides

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Jan 16, 2011
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You know it's really a shame that either of these Forums be considered the "enemy camp" I am member of both and typically don't have any issues. More importantly both sides could learn from the other if they took the time to not be provocative and actually listen to what others have to say.

Rob :)

I had a similar experience with the Audio Sharks forum. I stopped posting. Who wants to fight? Not I.
 

Gregadd

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I had a similar experience with the Audio Sharks forum. I stopped posting. Who wants to fight? Not I.
Uh, actually I love a spirited debate. I'll pass on the "food fights."
 

treitz3

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You know it's really a shame that either of these Forums be considered the "enemy camp" I am member of both and typically don't have any issues. More importantly both sides could learn from the other if they took the time to not be provocative and actually listen to what others have to say.

Rob :)
We tried that here once. We all know what happened.

Tom
 

Robh3606

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We tried that here once. We all know what happened.

Tom
Hello Tom

All I am saying is different forums are like little tribes. There is no reason to just stay in your tribe. You don't learn anything that way. It's good to have discussions of opposing views and as long as it stays civil you can agree to disagree and move on. At the very least the discussion helps you focus your point of view and if you keep your mind open you can learn something. I know I don't have all the answers.

As far as this forum I find it just fine there are both "sides" here and for the most part it seems civil to me. You would know better as a Mod.

Going on another forum to deliberately stir the pot is childish and brings nothing to the discussion and disrupts the forum.

Rob :)
 

rbbert

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marmota

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ASR is a cancer for audio and a cesspool of misinformation, do not visit.

For headphones, SBAF is a very, very good source of information.
Head-fi is too noisy, but if you search, there is good info buried there, specifically the older threads/posts (pre 2010 approx), before it turned into a collection of ad pages.
Head-Case is the go to place for electrostatic headphones, but just read and do not post there, it is very unfriendly to new users.
 

Mike Lavigne

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for the last 4-6 months i've been upgrading my Home Theater, and so in the course of doing research for various things, my efforts have led to ASR a few times. i found nothing nefarious and some useful info. Amir is Amir and does his measurement thing, and limits his listening comments, and the rest fall in line. i did learn a few things.

i just lurked, did not register. i know there are dart boards there with my picture on them. no worries. even when Amir was here he did have positive contributions. when i visited there i set aside my audiophile sensitivities as i have no agenda to get them to change. registering would be asking for grief.

they are not the enemy, they occupy an alternate universe.
 

marmota

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Feb 3, 2016
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for the last 4-6 months i've been upgrading my Home Theater, and so in the course of doing research for various things, my efforts have led to ASR a few times. i found nothing nefarious and some useful info. Amir is Amir and does his measurement thing, and limits his listening comments, and the rest fall in line. i did learn a few things.

i just lurked, did not register. i know there are dart boards there with my picture on them. no worries. even when Amir was here he did have positive contributions. when i visit there i set aside my audiophile sensitivities as i have no agenda to get them to change. registering would be asking for grief.

they are not the enemy, they occupy an alternate universe.

He does quite stupid things with measurements, all very well documented in several websites.
One of thousand possible examples:
measures Stax headphones, which require a good seal to achieve a correct bass response (read: correct). Marketing term for Stax headphones is "earspeakers", but it is just a marketing term, they do not float around your ears, like AKG K1000 or Raal Requisite, which are true "earspeakers", the Stax headphones require a tight seal for optimal sound.
What he did? Measured without a seal, because they are "earspeakers", measurement shows no bass, claims: "deficient bass".

He borks measurements, both by sheer incompetence or financial interests. His measurements are always the outlier and do not match the others done in different websites, which are quite consistent between themselves. He can't be trusted.

There's also a thread where he applies copious amounts of EQ to a $9 Sony headphone and claims it produces "reference quality sound" (his own words).

He is unprofessional, misinformed, arrogant and delusional. And it's a fact, not an opinion, in the same category as "fire burns" or "the sun is bright", is not debatable.
 

microstrip

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What is the point of this thread? Create wars?
 
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