In-wall cable question

Kingrex

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Feb 3, 2019
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This is twisted #10. It hold together with no tape. Its work to take it apart. It has to be pulled in a pipe. ENT, PCV or steel. If steel, I add a isolated ground wire.

The other image is how to spring the wire out of the box when attached to a duplex. You need to be neat and clean. You have to press the duplex into place, then re-torque before actually landing it permanatly. I don't know the jumper from screw to screw helps much. I don't think it hurts. Otherwise, the only connection between the top and bottom outlet is a piece of brass. I have friends who will land the branch wire, then weld a piece of copper bar across the two screws. Its not legal and your never taking it apart.
It does not hurt to be aware if the wires are in the top and bottom screw to know which outlet might be the primary and which the secondary.
Rex


Wire Twist Copy Resize.jpg Duplex in wall make up.jpg
 

MarkusBarkus

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Feb 6, 2021
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...the two-stage process of wiring the outlet, pushing into place, then pulling it out and re-tightening is *very* important, as Rex said.

And BTW: this is not an audio-specific activity. It's a best-practice, IMO. Especially for 10 gauge (but 12 benefits too). It's how I was taught and how I have always done it.

I have gone on service calls in a former life where an outlet has a reported issue from a customer, and you open up the outlet box and the duplex screw is black, a sign of arc-ing at some point. You never want to see that, and never want to create a situation where that is possible.

I also use jumpers in my home audio outlets, and I identify the primary "plug" for sure. Why not? Easy to do.
 
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joaovieira

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What’s the general opinion about using the gear connected directly to the outlets or using a power distributor?
I use 3 double Furutech NCF outlets, but some have recommended me to use a power distributor for resonance matters.
 

Halydean

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Apr 9, 2023
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What’s the general opinion about using the gear connected directly to the outlets or using a power distributor?
I use 3 double Furutech NCF outlets, but some have recommended me to use a power distributor for resonance matters.
I think the general consensus among most audiophiles is to use a power distributor. This affords one a lot of choices for personal taste. For analog I use a Shunyata with component-to-component isolation, no surge "compression", all cold-welded outlets, and filtration without chokes. My digital front end goes through a PS Audio filter, which is more severe filtering. I like the flexibility to listen and try different options. However, if you want a power strip with no filtration, no surge suppression, and you won't be moving to a new home anytime soon, then the in-wall option could be great.
 
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poonbean

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Jul 30, 2020
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Terrific information here, thank you all.

Re the twist, have you tried twisting just hot and neutral with ground alongside? It’s an approach that AVI in San Rafael advised.
Is it California code compliant to run in wall the twisted romex without that outer jacket ?
 
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Kingrex

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My belief is, every break in the power line is an opportunity for insertion losses. Every power cord is 6 breaks that are most likely dissimilar metal contact points. You have screws holding a wire to the duplex, the blade of power cord into a duplex, the cord end screws to cord wire. This is all on both ends of the wire. A simple power distributor is break points and metals that add colors. You can very much alter the sound of your stereo with a power cord, duplex and power strips.

What does this mean. If you only have 1 or 2 duplex at the rack and you have 6 or 7 power cords, you have to have a power strip. If your building out a room, I always advocate multiple branch circuits to a single duplex each, partly to eliminate the need for a power distributor.

I made a power strip years back. I still use it at it works so well. Let it be known this image is not NEC compliant. A power cord is suppose to have 2 ends. I made a more industrial connection and bolted the wires together in the wall. There is no duplex or male ends from the wall to power strip. In keeping with this idea, the 2 cords exiting the unit are also bolted inside the power strip and go to my preamp. This is sonically by far the best sounding application I have tried. Its not legal.

The 2 wires to the left, out the wall. That is how I compare inwall wire. I don't want a duplex and power cord influencing the sound. That is my twisted wire and a 10 awg romex, both with the same Furutech end directly from my power panel to my amp. No breaks, no duplex, no power cord. Just the wire and a cord end. This way I can quickly move between 2 wires and asses the sonic signature. I have a chunk of Encore steel MC in my basement I am going to insert soon and listen to.

The other image is how "I" like to splice in a wall. Good luck getting an electrician to do this. A wire nut is what they will use. But a wire nut creates vortices and eddie currents where the wires are place parallel. And an engineer told me the wire spring in the wire nut becomes a tiny transformer. All noise. Audible???? I'm just experimenting and going as far as I can.

This last wire splice is how I would do a double duplex. I never break the primary branch wire. I strip a little casing back and use an Ilsco C crimp to lock a tag end onto the wire. This is difficult to do correctly. This splice is NEC complient and uses UL parts. Totally legal. Your not going to get your electrician to do this. But its fundamentally better practice on many levels.

A power strip and power filter are 2 totally different devices. A power strip has no filters at all. Maybe a built in SPD. A filter is just that. If you need to distribute power, you can use either. My personal preference is a large isolation transformer in another room and multiple branches to the room. Or a large isolation transformer to branches with a power strip in the room to allow multiple devices to be landed.

I have also shipped a couple of these integrated power panels. These are UL listed and labeled and NEC compliant. They take up to a 200 amp feed and have 8 individual duplex built in. Its just a way to get loads of power to rack with many power hungry devices. The cover opens and there are 8 x AFCI breakers inside.
Rex
 

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Kingrex

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Terrific information here, thank you all.

Re the twist, have you tried twisting just hot and neutral with ground alongside? It’s an approach that AVI in San Rafael advised.
Is it California code compliant to run in wall the twisted romex without that outer jacket ?
You can twist the hot and neutral only. Leave the ground loose. I have done this and had 0 mV potential 50 feet way at the duplex.

Any THHN wire, my twisted included has to be in some sort of raceway. I need to amend my website to make this more clear. It can be ENT, PVC or steel.
 
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poonbean

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Jul 30, 2020
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You can twist the hot and neutral only. Leave the ground loose. I have done this and had 0 mV potential 50 feet way at the duplex.

Any THHN wire, my twisted included has to be in some sort of raceway. I need to amend my website to make this more clear. It can be ENT, PVC or steel.
“Any THHN wire, my twisted included has to be in some sort of raceway.”
So does this mean that for romex cable, the jacket surrounding the 3 thhn wires counts as a raceway?

And yet another question, just read that the Furutech FP S55N 10g cable is rated 20A 125V / 16A 250V. Presumably that’s the same rating for twisted solid 10g Thhn. Right now there’s 12/2 romex running 240v to the future 3rq equitech (not yet here) on a 20a circuit (electrician installed using the romex already in the wall). So I’m looking change the inwall supply wire to 10g per discussion w Terry at equitech (thus my question prompting this thread to come back to life). But now, per the furutech rating, 10g might be too small for 240v/20a. So, should it be 8/2 twisted? Thoughts?
 
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MarkusBarkus

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So does this mean that for romex cable, the jacket surrounding the 3 thhn wires counts as a raceway?
Romex doesn't require a conduit/raceway as the sheathing itself is rated for in-wall applications. Some types of Romex have additional ratings for UV, in-ground, etc. Some applications (outside, pool, etc.) require specific types/rated wire/cable.

THHN (and similar types) are individually jacketed and code requires they be run in conduit or raceway, for a number of reason.

BTW: all of these wire/cable types have codes which describe how/how often they should be affixed, conditions, etc. When in doubt, hire an electrician. Better safe than homeless!

ps: 10 gauge is used for 30 amp circuits. There are distance and ambient temp aspects of this rating spec.
 
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poonbean

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I think there would need to be more demo and repair to install ent, pvc, or steel than to simply pull romex.
The run from my sub panel to the outlet is 25ft., with 2-3 right truths. Can I simply put the twisted thhn in some sort of jacket, perhaps there’s a romex style jacket to be had ?

any experience with the audience hidden treasure in wall wire?
 

MarkusBarkus

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...if you could run Romex, you could *probably* use FMC (Flexible Metal Conduit). Or the lighter plastic variant. These products are the "jackets" for loose wires.
 

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poonbean

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Thx, that’s a nice tight bend radius. If the plastic variant has a similar bend, might be easier to pull through the holes in the studs and floor plates.
 

agisthos

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There is another audiophile in-wall option, Gigawatt LCY EVO. It’s 11-12 gauge, and has an extra drain wire that touches the copper shield. You float the drain wire at the wall end but connect it to earth at the breaker box end.

I had a 10m run installed and so far it seems fantastic but I don’t have any real means of comparing it.

Maybe the gauge is borderline thin for a run that length, but I could not afford the JPS or Audience wire, while this Gigawatt popped up for sale as an off cut from an aborted multi run installation.
 

AMR / iFi audio

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There is another audiophile in-wall option, Gigawatt LCY EVO. It’s 11-12 gauge, and has an extra drain wire that touches the copper shield. You float the drain wire at the wall end but connect it to earth at the breaker box end.

I had a 10m run installed and so far it seems fantastic but I don’t have any real means of comparing it.

Maybe the gauge is borderline thin for a run that length, but I could not afford the JPS or Audience wire, while this Gigawatt popped up for sale as an off cut from an aborted multi run installation.
I heard that it is a great wire for the price. If you got it discounted, even better! Are you planning on using any sort of filtering/conditioning?
 

agisthos

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I heard that it is a great wire for the price. If you got it discounted, even better! Are you planning on using any sort of filtering/conditioning?

After all my decades long attempts to use power conditioners and a box full of parallel power filters, I actually found none worked best, and the Nordost Qbase power strip in particular sounded better than anything else. Power filtering always takes something away and its never apparent what it is until you remove it.

Of course, further upstream I have 3x iFi X and an iFi Elite powering a plethora of devices. :D They are the price performance champs.
 
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