Is Wilson losing their marketing edge?

caesar

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In a recent issue of TAS, Jonathan Valin wrote a show report descriibing a Wilson / Spectral combination. For Wilson to mate with Spectral makes absolutely no sense to me. Yes, it probably sounds more true to the recording, but why bother?

Wilson has always prided themselves on producing a live show at home. Then comes Magico and it gets dubbed as the more accurate speaker - or a speaker that excels reproducing everything on the recording.

Why would Wilson want to fight Magico on their turf? Let Magico have the honor of being the speaker that goes for your head, while Wilson grabs your heart. And recently hearing the Alexandria with the new D'Agostino amps, it is hard to beat Wilson at producing the show experience, which is what most audiophiles are looking for.

Wilson won't convince guys like Valin about accuracy/ being true to the recording no matter how hard they try. Why not focus your marketing efforts on your strengths - that you have the speaker that recreates the emotions of a live show at home. Emotion is what sells the speakers. Seems like a very dumb move by a supposed marketing genius.
 

mep

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Is there part of this story missing because I'm not following your logic?
 

caesar

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If you are the speaker brand that is known for creating emotions of a live show at home while your adversary is known for creating a speaker known for stimulating the mind, why would you want to compete with them by presenting at shows with a brand of electronics that is known for stimulating the mind rather than moving the heart? A better strategy, IMO, would be to play to your strengths (emotions stirred by your speakers) while leaving the weaker position (thinking about the music) to your competitor. Present with D'Agostino amps!!!
 

mep

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I guess I didn't know that Wilson was known for creating emotions of a live show at home. I thought Wilson was known for building very high quality speakers with fanatical attention to detail.
 

caesar

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I guess I didn't know that Wilson was known for creating emotions of a live show at home. I thought Wilson was known for building very high quality speakers with fanatical attention to detail.

If you read Dave Wilson's interviews and Fremer's reviews, Wilson's goal is the "absolute sound".
 

caesar

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False dichotomy.

Not sure I agree. Listen to Wilson Alexandria driven by Dan's amps. It's as real as close as you can get to getting a real concert in your home. Listen to Magicos Q5 driven by Spectral. It's kind of watching a cell under a microscope - interesting but not emotional.
 

Ron Party

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I've heard the X-2s (Series I & II) driven by both SOTA SS, including without limitation Spectral, & tube amps, more times than I can count, with both analog and digital front ends. Fantastic sound every time. To suggest X-2s driven by Spectral delivers less than superb sound is to state a preference. To state this combination delivers sound more or less true to the recording or more or less *live* again is your opinion, no more no less. That you may hear what you claim to hear, well, ... But to suggest what you claim you hear is a fact is a giant leap of faith and one not borne out by the experiences of many, many others.

This is, of course, to state nothing of the false dichotomy you present in your OP. Attempting to be true to the recording and attempting to elicit an emotional response in the listener are not mutually exclusive.
 

mep

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Attempting to be true to the recording and attempting to elicit an emotional response in the listener are not mutually exclusive.

Nor should they be. If the emotion is in the recording, the speakers should reproduce it.
 

caesar

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I've heard the X-2s (Series I & II) driven by both SOTA SS, including without limitation Spectral, & tube amps, more times than I can count, with both analog and digital front ends. Fantastic sound every time. To suggest X-2s driven by Spectral delivers less than superb sound is to state a preference. To state this combination delivers sound more or less true to the recording or more or less *live* again is your opinion, no more no less. That you may hear what you claim to hear, well, ... But to suggest what you claim you hear is a fact is a giant leap of faith and one not borne out by the experiences of many, many others.

This is, of course, to state nothing of the false dichotomy you present in your OP. Attempting to be true to the recording and attempting to elicit an emotional response in the listener are not mutually exclusive.

Many talk of the Wilson bass hump - some derisively, some positively. I personally like the Wilson bass. I think it makes the speaker emulate the real thing better. Magico has leaner, thinner bass with less impact. Only the best recordings will sound great on a Magico. The rest suck. They don't stir emotions, but make one analyze the music. Most of the stuff I have heard on a Wilson sounds pretty damn good.

But even if we agree to disagree about our subjective interpretations, Magico Q5 has already staked out the space in the market place and in the consumer mind, whether any one likes it or not, as the more "truthful" speaker. No matter what Wilson does, this is not going to change. Someone interested in "high fidelity" will buy Q5/ spectral. Pick up the issue of TAS that has the Q5 on the cover. It says "high fidelity" below that. The same issue also has a review of Rockport Altair. The Rockport should have made the cover as it is closer to the absolute sound than the Magico, IMHO.

Magico also has Jon Valin as its unofficial marketing rep parroting every chance he gets that Magico is closer to the recording than any other speaker - sometimes a half dozen times in a 2 page review of an interconnect. So why would Wilson want to fight that fight when they already have the position in the market place as the speaker to reproducing the live show at home?
 

Ron Party

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It must be me. I read your posts on the one hand as addressing a marketing strategy but OTOH asserting subjective impressions as fact. I don't read any of the magazines to which you make reference, so I have no preconceptions about Magico, Wilson, Dan D'Agostino, or Spectral, either in the market place or in the consumer mind.
 

Gregadd

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Alon Wolf of Magico is hands down a better marketer than Dave Wilson of Wilson Audio IMO. Both are formidable.
 

Gregadd

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Mostly his ubiquitous presence and self promotion. The legend is definitely greater than the collective body of work IMO.
 

Steve Williams

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I've heard the X-2s (Series I & II) driven by both SOTA SS, including without limitation Spectral, & tube amps, more times than I can count, with both analog and digital front ends. Fantastic sound every time. To suggest X-2s driven by Spectral delivers less than superb sound is to state a preference. To state this combination delivers sound more or less true to the recording or more or less *live* again is your opinion, no more no less. That you may hear what you claim to hear, well, ... But to suggest what you claim you hear is a fact is a giant leap of faith and one not borne out by the experiences of many, many others.

This is, of course, to state nothing of the false dichotomy you present in your OP. Attempting to be true to the recording and attempting to elicit an emotional response in the listener are not mutually exclusive.

Caesar

I must admit that I agree with Ron here. Spectral with Wilson sounds superb

In fact at the recent Cali Audio Show my vote for best room was MAXX llls with Spectral
 

microstrip

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(...) Attempting to be true to the recording and attempting to elicit an emotional response in the listener are not mutually exclusive.

The big question is what means exactly "to be true to the recording". Duplicate the sound in the control room? Recreate the life experiment that generated the recording? Neither of the preceding?
 

audioguy

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Alon Wolf of Magico is hands down a better marketer than Dave Wilson of Wilson Audio IMO. Both are formidable.

I don't see it that way. I would love to compare the long term revenues of the two companies --- or number of speakers sold. Pretty sure Mr. Wolf would come in second. And the purpose of marketing is to generate recognition and then sales. So I'm pretty comfortable that Dave Wilson wins.

While I am not the world's largest fan of the Wilson sound (Steve's system may change my mind next week), I absolutely am a huge fan of his long term marketing genius. In fact, I can not think of many who have been any where near as successful over the long term. (Magnepan comes to mind).

As to your description of the sonic characteristics of the two speakers, I also could not disagree more. But that is just my opinion as your statement of "fact" is nothing but your opinion as well.
 

Ron Party

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The big question is what means exactly "to be true to the recording". Duplicate the sound in the control room? Recreate the life experiment that generated the recording? Neither of the preceding?
Well, I first would answer your question with a question: why ask me? Why didn't you ask Caesar, the OP, who first used that exact language as part of what I then called a false dichotomy and as such this was the ground for my appearing in this thread? Did you understand the term when he used it but then get confused when I repeated it?:)

Now as to your question, I am unclear on your terminology. What is the "sound in the control room"? What is "life experiment that generated the recording"?:confused:
 

RBFC

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I highly doubt that most folks who state claims about "closer to the master tape" have ever heard said master on the recording studio's reference system. Subtle differences in audio are usually expressed as preferences, not absolutes.

Lee
 

Gregadd

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I don't see it that way. I would love to compare the long term revenues of the two companies --- or number of speakers sold. Pretty sure Mr. Wolf would come in second. And the purpose of marketing is to generate recognition and then sales. So I'm pretty comfortable that Dave Wilson wins.

While I am not the world's largest fan of the Wilson sound (Steve's system may change my mind next week), I absolutely am a huge fan of his long term marketing genius. In fact, I can not think of many who have been any where near as successful over the long term. (Magnepan comes to mind).

As to your description of the sonic characteristics of the two speakers, I also could not disagree more. But that is just my opinion as your statement of "fact" is nothing but your opinion as well.

I seem to be rubbing everyone the wrong way this evening. No problem. Reread the Post. IMO means in my opinion. By definition not an assertion of fact.

Dave has been around as long as I can remember. Comparing Daves' long term earnings to Alons would not be fair. I became aware of Magico when a dealer asked me about the "mini" at an audio show. "based in Berkeley, Calif., has established itself as a major American high-end speaker manufacturer in just a few years." I think Dave made a slower rise correlated to the phenominal success of the WATT puppy. I don't really know whether that was due to the speakers quality or his marketing genius. I have already heard Steves' system. I suggest you are in for a treat. Not just for the sound of his system but his world class hospitality.

With respect to my opinion of the speakers from the two companies, See my assessment of the Q5 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?61-Magico-Q5-Demo-at-Overture-Audio/page2 For my opinion of the SASHAhttp://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?780-Wilson-Sashas.../page3. Please enjoy the remainder of your Sunday evening.
 
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