Jay's CDT-3 Mk III.

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2019
2,913
2,393
350
I feel a bit of a flipper on this topic. But I have heard a few respected people now say a good CD is better than a server. For one, the CD can use a COAX or AES output. It does not need USB.

Has anyone tries one of these Jays Audio CD transports. Do they indeed trump any server you have tried.
 

Golum

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2018
1,812
2,575
405
Lausanne, CH
I don't have Jays CDT 3 but Denafrips Avatar as CDT and Accu CDP which I use as transport and both of course via DAC (Horizon).With Avatar I use i2S (RJ45 connection) and Accu Spdif.
Indeed they sound sublime all in their own right but would never say they trump my server which I still use most of the time.
I would rather be inclined to say that all depends on the media you serve any of these two options but of course question arises if you say file of xy album vs same album on CD. Variables are present still and my answer would be again depends... :)
But it is great to have both as sources that is for sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alrainbow

montesquieu

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2019
271
420
148
If you haven't seen it, worth a look at my latest post on this thread:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...istening-impressions.27044/page-2#post-824327

I think a lot depends on the internal system synergies, but my experience is the opposite from described as above - streaming or computer audio of any sort generally leaves me cold. Going round Munich hi-end (which is the only place I would customarily hear hi-end computer audio) I generally found that the most musical and enjoyable systems were pretty much exclusively the ones with turntables (or R2R), and that the vast majority of computer-based front ends sounded clinical and soulless. CD in my experience gets closer to vinyl (after all that's what many of us been working towards for 30-odd years).

That's quite apart from the dismal user experience associated with streaming - searching databases, clicking buttons, faffing with settings, worrying about resolution (when it's been fairly well established for solid technical reasons that well-done redbook typically trumps hi-res approaches), the hassle of inconsistent metadata. Had enough of that at work - why make listening to music like work? It puts an unwanted technological layer of distance between the listener and the music. It's also human psychology that an over-abundance (in this case, an infinite library) doesn't satisfy, rather it unsettles, cheapening the whole experience and encouraging a butterfly mindset.

Then of course you have the issue of fragmentation - it's already the case that certain labels are unavaiable on some platforms, and I suspect it's highly likely that over time audio streaming will suffer the same sort of walled garden disease as video streaming - requiring multiple streaming subscriptions to cover repertoire of interest, with the constant risk that whole labels or the entire back-catalogue of particular artists can be turned off for reasons far outside customer control. File-based audio gets round this, but then you have all the issues of storage, backup, bit rot - a fair degree of technological nous required to manage this securely. And all you own anyway is a limited license to 'use' the content, according to T&Cs that are constantly updated for commercial reasons.

Given all these factors it's no surprise at all that CD is making something of a comeback, and that from their nadir a few years ago, CD prices are on the rise again. Those of us who watched the madness of people dumping their LP collections first time (and filled our boots with vinyl at the time) round are unsurprised by this, but I suspect many who in recent years have junked their CD collections in favour of computer audio will live to experience similar regrets as those who sold off their LPs.

Give me the old world of casting an eye over the shelves, selecting an LP or CD, reading the sleeve notes and following the libretto, carefully selecting purchases and conducting repeat listening until a work is properly known and understood, and the comforts of long-term ownership - as with LPs, there is satisfaction in owning an object (including a CD) for many years, and using it repeatedly, with all the memories and associations over time that come with this experience.

To be fair I do have a Qubuz subsription and the means to play it into my DAC - but it's used primarily for selection of which LPs (and CDs - most recent classical music is unavailable on vinyl) to purchase. The notion of this being my main (or indeed only!) way of accessing music is quite horrific. Though I fully accept that my conclusions surrounding computer audio may be more influenced by my feelings on user experience than on sound quality, I still think it's a pretty awful way to listen.
 
Last edited:

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2019
2,913
2,393
350
Thanks Montesquieu. You have a lot of personal belief about music and libraries. That to me is just personal.
Your comments on the technical side of of the Jays is of interest. Especially the mods incorporated. Isn't it crazy a transport stand and puck can affect bits. Do you have the mk2 or mk3 .

I like my vinyl more than digital. Its easy to tell them apart. I have tried better digital and it sound like better digital. But it does not sound like vinyl. Neither sound like tape.

I don't know if I want CD for personal reasons. Storage, handling and so on. But I really don't think I want to bother if it just sounds like really good digital. I would personally rather have the streaming and playlist capabilities if they both sonically achieve the same ends.

What makes the Jays interesting to me is that a $5500 CD and a $6000 DAC can match a $70,000 steaming combo in sonics. That does interest me. I'm contradicting myself. If a used one popped up around $3k I would buy it.
 

montesquieu

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2019
271
420
148
As I mentioned in the review I linked to, it's the Mk 3, with the HQ Audio suspension modification and puck.

It's the most holistic, analogue sounding digital I've ever had, though an important part of that is my custom DAC. This is an AD1685-based DAC (so maximum 24/96) with some fairly serious power supplies + transformer driven tube output - similar in many ways to Audio Note DAC 5 or the top-end Lampis. I'm completely unconvinced by the current fashion for hi-res/oversampling etc. BY FAR the most important element of any DAC is the output stage, which is often little more than an afterthought in a lot of modern kit obsessed with the digital specifications.

My current combo gives me pretty close to the same enjoyment I get from my analogue setup - so much so that my customary 90% vinyl/10% CD has been somewhat altered since I got the Jay's, to be more like 60%-40%. Pretty radical for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hairyderriere

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2019
2,913
2,393
350
As I mentioned in the review I linked to, it's the Mk 3, with the HQ Audio suspension modification and puck.

It's the most holistic, analogue sounding digital I've ever had, though an important part of that is my custom DAC. This is an AD1685-based DAC (so maximum 24/96) with some fairly serious power supplies + transformer driven tube output - similar in many ways to Audio Note DAC 5 or the top-end Lampis. I'm completely unconvinced by the current fashion for hi-res/oversampling etc. BY FAR the most important element of any DAC is the output stage, which is often little more than an afterthought in a lot of modern kit obsessed with the digital specifications.

My current combo gives me pretty close to the same enjoyment I get from my analogue setup - so much so that my customary 90% vinyl/10% CD has been somewhat altered since I got the Jay's, to be more like 60%-40%. Pretty radical for me.
Who did your DAC modification. I know the power supplies in mine are very good and it is not designed to upsample. 24/192 max. Its made to run very quiet. I bet the output is good, but not great. I believe there is something to a good output and no one really talks about it.
 

montesquieu

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2019
271
420
148
A friend of mine in the UK did the work - not sure if you are UK-based or not? if so then ping me directly.
 

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2019
2,913
2,393
350
No, I'm USA. Interesting idea. I would hate to ruin my DAC. Getting a new one would set me back $12K or so.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
As I mentioned in the review I linked to, it's the Mk 3, with the HQ Audio suspension modification and puck.

It's the most holistic, analogue sounding digital I've ever had, though an important part of that is my custom DAC. This is an AD1685-based DAC (so maximum 24/96) with some fairly serious power supplies + transformer driven tube output - similar in many ways to Audio Note DAC 5 or the top-end Lampis. I'm completely unconvinced by the current fashion for hi-res/oversampling etc. BY FAR the most important element of any DAC is the output stage, which is often little more than an afterthought in a lot of modern kit obsessed with the digital specifications.

My current combo gives me pretty close to the same enjoyment I get from my analogue setup - so much so that my customary 90% vinyl/10% CD has been somewhat altered since I got the Jay's, to be more like 60%-40%. Pretty radical for me.
Hi Tom,

Unless Lampi has changed recently, the only transformers used are for the power supplies namely toroid and chokes. They weren’t transformer coupled on the output or interstage - having said that I haven’t followed the pacific and horizon but I doubt they have changed in this respect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alrainbow

montesquieu

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2019
271
420
148
Thanks Bill I wasn’t aware of that. I had thought they were modelled on the Audio Note approach. A Lampi GG visited here it was very nice indeed but I preferred mine by a whisker :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Audiophile Bill

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Thanks Bill I wasn’t aware of that. I had thought they were modelled on the Audio Note approach. A Lampi GG visited here it was very nice indeed but I preferred mine by a whisker :)

No Lampi are their own thing in that sense. S1W are an Audio Note copy cat though lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Golum

montesquieu

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2019
271
420
148
No Lampi are their own thing in that sense. S1W are an Audio Note copy cat though lol.
Don’t remind me of S1W I tried several DACs in the run up to having mine majorly rebuilt, and home demo’d the S1W DAC III …it was pretty dire, well short of what I had already never mind what I was aiming for. Got the blingy look sorted … but it’s no Audio Note!
 

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2019
2,913
2,393
350
As I mentioned in the review I linked to, it's the Mk 3, with the HQ Audio suspension modification and puck.

It's the most holistic, analogue sounding digital I've ever had, though an important part of that is my custom DAC. This is an AD1685-based DAC (so maximum 24/96) with some fairly serious power supplies + transformer driven tube output - similar in many ways to Audio Note DAC 5 or the top-end Lampis. I'm completely unconvinced by the current fashion for hi-res/oversampling etc. BY FAR the most important element of any DAC is the output stage, which is often little more than an afterthought in a lot of modern kit obsessed with the digital specifications.

My current combo gives me pretty close to the same enjoyment I get from my analogue setup - so much so that my customary 90% vinyl/10% CD has been somewhat altered since I got the Jay's, to be more like 60%-40%. Pretty radical for me.
This is from Mojo Audio, the manufacturer of the DAC I use. He does have some points about how additional parts in the signal are coloring the sound.

The analog output stage is direct-coupled to provide the most linear and extended frequency response possible by eliminating output coupling capacitors and transformers that color the sound, narrow the bandwidth, and cause phase and time distortion. For ultimate transparency the direct-coupled output stage incorporates Staccato class A discrete op amps and ultralow-noise Vishay TX2575 "Nude" resistors laser matched to 0.1% tolerance.
 

Solypsa

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2017
1,811
1,400
275
Seattle
www.solypsa.com

allvinyl

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2013
361
82
935
73
Burnsville, MN
...
I don't know if I want CD for personal reasons. Storage, handling and so on. But I really don't think I want to bother if it just sounds like really good digital. I would personally rather have the streaming and playlist capabilities if they both sonically achieve the same ends.
Yes, the main reason I'm putting together a streaming system; new music discovery.
What makes the Jays interesting to me is that a $5500 CD and a $6000 DAC can match a $70,000 steaming combo in sonics. That does interest me. I'm contradicting myself. If a used one popped up around $3k I would buy it.
Rex, I made a move to a standalone DAC; a demo X SE. Ben pointed me to the Jay's CDTIII/MkIII, as well, comparing it very favorably to the Project CD Box RS 2T + LTA LPS I'm currently using. I'm also testing some
 

allvinyl

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2013
361
82
935
73
Burnsville, MN
Yes, the main reason I'm putting together a streaming system; new music discovery.

Rex, I made a move to a standalone DAC; a demo X SE. Ben pointed me to the Jay's CDTIII/MkIII, as well, comparing it very favorably to the Project CD Box RS 2T + LTA LPS I'm currently using. I'm also testing some
new S/PDIF cables that are making a huge difference. Can't wait to get the new DAC as all this digital streaming is a first for me. Once I get the actual streaming setup going I can compare streaming to CD to vinyl.
 

montesquieu

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2019
271
420
148
Yes, the main reason I'm putting together a streaming system; new music discovery.

Yes it's really useful for that. Then you can go and buy the LP or CD with confidence knowing you'll like what's on it.
 

Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2019
2,913
2,393
350
new S/PDIF cables that are making a huge difference. Can't wait to get the new DAC as all this digital streaming is a first for me. Once I get the actual streaming setup going I can compare streaming to CD to vinyl.
Your going to have to change your account signature.
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,247
1,422
450
Cd transports / servers / steamers all can be excellent it’s the chain as it’s connected and the total makes the sound
no system is best or does not need components that add not subtract.
reg severs the most complicated over all. Steamers maybe complicated but mostly one Board and software 2 boards if they use an analog discrete outputs.
a cd transport is far less then both but still has many sounds anyway
if one’s Systems is under powered they may it hear
The totality of the chain anyway
Or if their system is tipped up they may need a component to give it warmth.
cd transports have these characteristics too.
Just saying is all
 

allvinyl

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2013
361
82
935
73
Burnsville, MN

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing