Jon Bon Jovi slams Steve Jobs for 'killing' music

[mep]

Damn it Mark. Now I feel like going and committing suicide . All great music already made? I hope not.....

Amir-Think about it. How many more times can labels make *new* recordings of all the classical music war horses? They have all been done to death and by great orchestras, conductors, and recording engineers. Who is composing new classical music these days that people want to go hear and buy? *New* classical music is kind of like Latin, it's a dead language. Ditto for opera. The great operas have all been written and performed and recorded to death. Anyone writing new operas that get anyone excited? What great rock bands are out there right now? Ditto for jazz. Do you think we will ever see a band fly into the U.S. again and have thousands of adoring fans screaming when they arrive? Now we have Brittney Spears, Jessica Simpson, and the Backstreet Boys. Woo-Hoo.

That's why we are chasing the best recordings of the greatest musicians.

 

[Ron Party]

What great rock bands are out there right now?

Too many to count. Just a starter:

• Transatlantic
• IQ
• Pendragon
• Marillion
• Joe Bonamassa
• Spock's Beard
• Kenny Wayne Shepherd Band
• Los Lonely Boys
• Muse
• Trion
• The Tangent
• Radiohead
• Porcupine Tree
• David Gilmour
• Peter Gabriel
• The Flower Kings
• Kaipa
• Sylvan
• Satellite
• Echolyn
• Gov't Mule
• Derek Trucks Band

And of course some of the old great ones still are producing new music, well worth buying.

Now we have Brittney Spears, Jessica Simpson, and the Backstreet Boys. Woo-Hoo.

FWIW, these are pop acts, not rock. Very few pop artists withstand the test of time.

 

[mep]

Too many to count. Just a starter:

• Transatlantic
• IQ
• Pendragon
• Marillion
• Joe Bonamassa
• Spock's Beard
• Kenny Wayne Shepherd Band
• Los Lonely Boys
• Muse
• Trion
• The Tangent
• Radiohead
• Porcupine Tree
• David Gilmour
• Peter Gabriel
• The Flower Kings
• Kaipa
• Sylvan
• Satellite
• Echolyn
• Gov't Mule
• Derek Trucks Band

And of course some of the old great ones still are producing new music, well worth buying.


FWIW, these are pop acts, not rock. Very few pop artists withstand the test of time.

All right Ron, how many #1 songs do any of the bands you listed have to their credit? How many of them had platinum albums? You can't count David Gilmour's time with Pink Floyd or Peter Gabriel's time with Genesis. The only ones that probably had a shot are Los Lonely Boys and Kenny Wayne Sheperd and I bet they didn't make it to the top of the charts either or had anything go platinum.

You are right about the old war horse bands are still making music worth buying. I went to see Steely Dan last year and the last time I saw so many people usings walkers, canes, and wheelchairs was at a nursing home.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

On this point I do agree with you Amir. It has always been shown that a 'monopoly' is a very bad thing for any consumer.

I agree as well. Good thing there's no imminent threat of monopoly and, so far this has only given consumers more choice at better pricing. iTunes has 80% of the paid digital download market. But are only 35% of the retail music market. The rest is physical media. We're nowhere close to monopoly. We're nowhere close to closing anyone else out of getting into the digital distribution business, either. Hell, it's so easy and cheap to get into that indy bands do it on their own to sell music to their fans without dealing with the labels. That's small scale. Medium? Chesky, HDTracks, etc. Large scale? Amazon. If physical product goes the way of the dinosaur, and no one is smart enough to compete with iTunes, and there is a real threat of monopoly, my advice is vote for the politicians who will enforce the anti trust laws instead of the ones who have consistently protected corporate interests from consumer choice. Simple enough.

One thing I agree with is that, long term, the very future of the major labels is in jeopardy. And they are whining like kittens with their tails caught in the door. And they have absolutely begged for this trouble.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

All right Ron, how many #1 songs do any of the bands you listed have to their credit? How many of them had platinum albums? You can't count David Gilmour's time with Pink Floyd or Peter Gabriel's time with Genesis. The only ones that probably had a shot are Los Lonely Boys and Kenny Wayne Sheperd and I bet they didn't make it to the top of the charts either or had anything go platinum.

You are right about the old war horse bands are still making music worth buying. I went to see Steely Dan last year and the last time I saw so many people usings walkers, canes, and wheelchairs was at a nursing home.

Mark, there was that golden period in the 60s and 70s, the era of the British invasion and then album radio that went beyond the cuts released as singles, when bands with depth and gravitas had hits. It wasn't like that before 1964 or so and it hasn't been like that since 1975 or so. It was an anomaly. This is normal.

Tim

 

[mep]

Tim-I guess I grew up in the anomaly period and it was awesome. I never had enough money to buy everything I wanted to own music-wise. There were some good rock bands in the 1980s that sold tons of albums. Van Halen comes to mind right away. I remember seeing Alice Cooper in the 1970s when their very first LP came out and hardly anyone knew them. They played at the Brown Theater in Louisville and it only held maybe 2000 people. I saw ZZ Top before anyone knew who they were at a place in Louisville that held less than 2000 people. ZZ Top was just flat awesome and they wouldn't quit playing. The owner's of the club finally turned the power off to make them quit.

Things are different now and I don't think it's for the better. I'm currently chasing jazz from the 1950s and 1960s. I wish I was buying brand new jazz that was as good.

 

[Ron Party]

All right Ron, how many #1 songs do any of the bands you listed have to their credit? How many of them had platinum albums?

If you mean #1 songs as in on the charts, the kind of songs that get FM airplay, zero. This may be another issue of semantics. The line in your previous post was:

What great rock bands are out there right now?

My definition of a great rock back has virtually nothing to do with whether or not they are a commercial, top 40 success, and everything to do with whether they have great musicians, great singers and great songs.

You can't count David Gilmour's time with Pink Floyd or Peter Gabriel's time with Genesis.

Agreed. But Peter Gabriel still is going strong as is David Gilmour.

The only ones that probably had a shot are Los Lonely Boys and Kenny Wayne Sheperd and I bet they didn't make it to the top of the charts either or had anything go platinum.

I've seen Kenny Wayne Shepherd in concert twice, the most recent being just last year, and he is a half-step away from Hendrix. The man can shred, and his band is great. I saw Los Lonely Boys in concert about 2 years ago. They are surprisingly good; 3 brothers who produce the same kind of full bodied sound that SRV & Double Trouble put out. Los Lonely Boys has a new album coming out. Oh, BTW, Heaven did reach the top 40, FWIW.

You are right about the old war horse bands are still making music worth buying. I went to see Steely Dan last year and the last time I saw so many people usings walkers, canes, and wheelchairs was at a nursing home.

While I see probably 20 to 30 shows a year, I tend to stay away from the old greats. In the first place, I've seen most of them already. But the whopper is those ticket prices that begin at $250.00 and go north from there. $250+ for Pink Floyd, Van Morrison, Steely Dan, Eric Clapton, just to name a few who've played here within the last year. Way too rich for my blood. I can see 4 or 5 other great, great shows for the same money, and that includes the bar bill.

Now, to get to the meat of the matter, the point of my post is that there is an awful lot of new, great rock music. But as you correctly pointed out, none of it gets FM play. Sometimes it takes a bit of effort to find out about these bands, but IMO it's well worth the effort. Check out some of the bands I listed. They may or may not be your cup of tea but if they are, fantastic!

 

[mep]

Ron-I don't remember exactly what I paid to see Steely Dan last year, but I don't think it was over $75.00. They are coming to Indy soon and I will probably see them again if I can get good seats-blue heads and all. I own several Radiohead LPs and I do like their music.

 

[JackD201]

Well, let me ask you this. Were all 45 singles priced exactly the same?


I am not here to defend labels. I am here to defend the business of distributing music once they are done with it. Between them and Apple, no one else can get into music distribution business. How is this right in anyone's book? Digital distribution was supposed to even out the odds, letting anyone get into the business. But the exact reverse has happened and we have folks dancing in streets, thanking Steve jobs and Apple with so honoring us with white little boxes. OK, overly dramatic . But I hope you get the point.

Longer term, we face a situation where the artist may bypass the labels and work directly with iTunes. Apple's power in that situation will become absolute as no else may be able to get a license for music at any price!

Downloads aren't priced exactly the same either, but if we recall, price variations of 45s were due just as much to variability of logistical costs as in exercising price elasticity.

Content is King. I download from two niche market sites. The price is the same but for a dollar more I can get WAV.

IF Apple demands exclusivity across the board for online content distribution, I will be on your side Amir but for as long as I can download the song from Amazon or Walmart or any other place, and these downloads are not locked out of iTunes and their hardware, I still don't see the same grim future you do. It may look as though Apple is all set for world dominance but history tells us a different story. There's always a dark horse ready and waiting to steal the prize.

 

[arthurs]

Downloads aren't priced exactly the same either, but if we recall, price variations of 45s were due just as much to variability of logistical costs as in exercising price elasticity.

Content is King. I download from two niche market sites. The price is the same but for a dollar more I can get WAV.

IF Apple demands exclusivity across the board for online content distribution, I will be on your side Amir but for as long as I can download the song from Amazon or Walmart or any other place, and these downloads are not locked out of iTunes and their hardware, I still don't see the same grim future you do. It may look as though Apple is all set for world dominance but history tells us a different story. There's always a dark horse ready and waiting to steal the prize.

Netflix.....

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Netflix.....

Napster... Again. Or some other subscription service. My friends in England hardly buy any music at all. They get everything they want from Spotify. It's likely, inevitable even, that Apple is making the last fortune to be made in selling music. Once we get the rest of the way past all of these bulky, pocket-sized hard-drive devices and everyone has a slim multi-purpose wifi thingy in their pocket, 99 cents a song will seem like highway robbery compared to unlimited access to all the songs, all the time, for $10 a month. Who listens to just 10 songs a month?

I wonder how much margin is in that for the record companies?

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

What a shame. Albums used to be like vegetables. Sold as is with no refund. Shame on us that we can actually debut music. Now kids can actually debut music in advance and only buy what the like and pass on the crap. I for one am happy the record industry has lost its iron grip on distribution.

Bon Jovi can relax. Thy can still overcharge for concerts.

 

[amirm]

Bon Jovi can relax. Thy can still overcharge for concerts.

That is the model in countries with 100% piracy and no effective copy protection law. The talent has given up on making any money on recorded music and videos. All money is made is from concerts.

In some sense, that may be one of the most likely futures.