Lampizator Big 7

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Thanks,

I can see paying that kind of money for some gear...BUT not for a DAC. IMO, the digital world is moving so fast right now, this unit would more than likely be a boat anchor in a year, outside..two!

DaveyF,

Its hand built so can be continually upgraded if you wish. Most people love theirs even from years ago and dont bother. It is a destination type Dac, not so suited for Nervosa.

You can also buy used...if you like. I have seen some great deals from time to time.

One thing I will say, is that PCM can be debated (I love it), but DSD playback cannot. There is no other DSD like this on the market....NONE.

To be super economical about this, I can imagine someone getting a Lite7 with DSD only. SS recti and DHT output tubes.
 

bmoura

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Sep 6, 2013
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DaveyF,

Its hand built so can be continually upgraded if you wish. Most people love theirs even from years ago and dont bother. It is a destination type Dac, not so suited for Nervosa.

You can also buy used...if you like. I have seen some great deals from time to time.

One thing I will say, is that PCM can be debated (I love it), but DSD playback cannot. There is no other DSD like this on the market....NONE.

To be super economical about this, I can imagine someone getting a Lite7 with DSD only. SS recti and DHT output tubes.

I'd agree. There are ways of getting Lampizator's unique analog filtered approach to DSD other than the Big 7 and Golden Gate if you're looking to spend less. In my case I went with their DSD DAC which starts at $3,400 and blows away the competition at that price and significantly above as Bruce Brown has noted.

Going obsolete? No I don't see that. Especially now that Lampizator is offering upgrades to DSD 256 support. With that, you'll have all you need to play DSD downloads with excellent sonics. Very enjoyable - and recommended !
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Well, I just called Poland and asked about DSD256 vs 128 and the consensus is that it will be better at all rates. The PCB will be ready in about a week or so and I will definitely line up for that. AFAIK only a few have been hand built and not sure if this has been played outside Poland yet as I know only the GG guys would have it and they would need a Windows ASIO transport to play at that rate.

What about double stereo DSD256 vs single DSD256? the jury is out on that for the moment. It has not been tested yet and will likely be marginal at best.
 

bmoura

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Sep 6, 2013
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Well, I just called Poland and asked about DSD256 vs 128 and the consensus is that it will be better at all rates. The PCB will be ready in about a week or so and I will definitely line up for that. AFAIK only a few have been hand built and not sure if this has been played outside Poland yet as I know only the GG guys would have it and they would need a Windows ASIO transport to play at that rate.

What about double stereo DSD256 vs single DSD256? the jury is out on that for the moment. It has not been tested yet and will likely be marginal at best.

That's my understanding as well. The new card will result in better quality DSD at all rates (64, 128, 256). Since most downloads are still at 64 and 128 - except for Yarlung and Eudora - glad to hear that is the case. Looking forward to the upgrade.
 

joaovieira

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Feb 16, 2013
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My B7 came with DSD256. But not mono, as it wasn't available last month.
Can't wait to take it out of the box. But still rebuilding my complete system, so I have to wait for pre and set mono blocks.
 

DaveyF

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joaovieira..." But not mono, as it wasn't available last month".

That would seem to bolster my point. IMHO, in the world of digital, what is new and current today is far from it next month. To buy a new DAC for $10K and have to either a) upgrade it within a few months ( at presumably some considerable expense) or to b) let it become obsolete within a year or two, seems to me to be impractical at best.
In the world of digital, I think it is best to buy the prior generation and for usually a considerable savings...as wisnon states...."he has seen some great deals from time to time"....Great for the BUYER, NOT so great for the SELLER.
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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It will not cost that much to upgrade to 256 and many people will do it themselves if brave enough.

You dont NEED to upgrade, but if you do it will be a fraction of the cost of the whole Dac. Lampi is almost never obsolete as being hand built you can just keep upgrading it instead of having to sell. You cant do this between signal tube Lampis and DHT Lampis though.

In summary, Davey, Its not as bad as you think.
 

Elberoth

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Dec 15, 2012
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IMHO, in the world of digital, what is new and current today is far from it next month. To buy a new DAC for $10K and have to either a) upgrade it within a few months ( at presumably some considerable expense) or to b) let it become obsolete within a year or two, seems to me to be impractical at best.
In the world of digital, I think it is best to buy the prior generation and for usually a considerable savings...as wisnon states...."he has seen some great deals from time to time"....Great for the BUYER, NOT so great for the SELLER.

From what I have seen, the Lampis sell for around 50-65% of the original retail, depending on age.

How is that different to selling say a preamp after owning it for 3 years ?

I've been hearing about the 'huge advancements in digital' for the last 30 years. And the truth is - you can die waiting for next best thing to come to market. Lampi, with reasonable depreciation and easy upgradebility, seems like a very sensible choice.

If $10k is too much for you, ?ukasz has plenty of other options, starting with as little as $2000 (Amber DAC). No need to start with the top of the range DAC.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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How is that different to selling say a preamp after owning it for 3 years ?
.

Not sure what preamps you are referring to, BUT the one's that are on my radar sell for a LOT more than 50-65% of their original value in only 3 years.
BTW, IF you think that Digital advancements are slow....and haven't come that far in 30 years...well I guess YMMV.
 

Alpinist

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Jun 17, 2014
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joaovieira..." But not mono, as it wasn't available last month".

That would seem to bolster my point. IMHO, in the world of digital, what is new and current today is far from it next month. To buy a new DAC for $10K and have to either a) upgrade it within a few months ( at presumably some considerable expense) or to b) let it become obsolete within a year or two, seems to me to be impractical at best.
In the world of digital, I think it is best to buy the prior generation and for usually a considerable savings...as wisnon states...."he has seen some great deals from time to time"....Great for the BUYER, NOT so great for the SELLER.

I have to agree with Davey on this one. Hard to spend $10K on a DAC that seems to be updated almost weekly, no matter how great. When I bought my Digital Player, I went with the K-01 because I felt it was really future proofed. It was three years before the K-01X came out. And the K-01 is currently upgradeable for DSD and 384 kHz PCM.

Ken
 

bmoura

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Sep 6, 2013
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And the K-01 is currently upgradeable for DSD and 384 kHz PCM.

The K-01 specs say it supports single rate DSD (DSD 64fs). Does it also support double rate DSD (DSD 128fs) as most modern DACs do? Or quad rate DSD (DSD 256fs) as the new Lampizators do?
At a list price of $23,000 one would hope so.... :)
 
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Alpinist

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The K-01 specs say it supports single rate DSD (DSD 64fs). Does it also support double rate DSD (DSD 128fs) as most modern DACs do? Or quad rate DSD (DSD 256fs) as the new Lampizators do?
At a list price of $23,000 one would hope so.... :)

You need to remember that my K-01 is three years old. Digital audio has moved light years in the last three years. Did Lampizator offer double rate or quad rate DSD three years ago? Did Lampizator offer single rate DSD three years ago? Did Lampizator even exist three years ago?

I'm not saying that Lampizator isn't offering a great product currently, I'm just stating that the frequency of their upgrades would make me want to wait until the point that they level off before investing big dollars in a purchase.

Ken
 
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bonzo75

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I agree with Elberoth. Given that I find B7 to be better than 35k+ dacs, I think B7 money is well spent and you can sit on it satisfied. Sure, there may be a better upgrade tomorrow but not really required. Below B7 levels the fall is drastic. Above that at least for me there isn't anything. I am quite satisfied not having to spend on GG.

Can there be a new dac cheaper better than the Lampi 7? Possibly. But how much cheaper will it be? At the B7 price levels, I am quite willing to move like today.
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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You need to remember that my K-01 is three years old. Digital audio has moved light years in the last three years. Did Lampizator offer double rate or quad rate DSD three years ago? Did Lampizator offer single rate DSD three years ago? Did Lampizator even exist three years ago?

I'm not saying that Lampizator isn't offering a great product currently, I'm just stating that the frequency of their upgrades would make me want to wait until the point that they level off before investing big dollars in a purchase.

Ken

Lampizator DSD came out 2.5 years ago and offered DSD128 from inception! People seem to be trying to hold them to a different standard than other makes out there, most of which came out with DSD AFTER Lampi and only had DSD64 initially.

Again, I say that people also confuse OPTIONs with upgrades. A balanced L7 is an option, not an upgrade and is meant for those who want in, but run fully balanced systems. A Lite 7 is again not an upgrade, but a cheaper entry point, that can be upgraded to a full B7 as budget permits. Finally, the Golden Gate was made after people pushed lukasz for an all out assault using the most expensive "Bugatti" parts. I have a Big7 and am satisfied, but can see someone else with say Kondo amps and $100K+ speakers wanting a GG to complement their system in terms of looks (Copper casing) and to ease their mind that the parts checklist is the finest imaginable. What difference it makes, I cant really say, but at this level diminishing returns hit hard. However, if I had a Kondo/Vox Olympian setup, I would go for the GG too, as it would seem "right".

Ken, go give the Big7 an honest listen and you will understand why people who have are so passionate about it. Ignore all the doubters who are scared that what we say is in fact true!
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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I agree with Elberoth. Given that I find B7 to be better than 35k+ dacs, I think B7 money is well spent and you can sit on it satisfied. Sure, there may be a better upgrade tomorrow but not really required. Below B7 levels the fall is drastic. Above that at least for me there isn't anything. I am quite satisfied not having to spend on GG.

Can there be a new dac cheaper better than the Lampi 7? Possibly. But how much cheaper will it be? At the B7 price levels, I am quite willing to move like today.

You are not alone bonzo, Al discovered the same thing too. He still has his $35K retail Dac, a D-Stream, Hugo, Ifi Micro iDSD, Mytek, Master 7 and TWO Lampizator Level 7 Dacs. Yes, TWO!!!
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Lampizator DSD came out 2.5 years ago and offered DSD128 from inception! People seem to be trying to hold them to a different standard than other makes out there, most of which came out with DSD AFTER Lampi and only had DSD64 initially.

Again, I say that people also confuse OPTIONs with upgrades. A balanced L7 is an option, not an upgrade and is meant for those who want in, but run fully balanced systems. A Lite 7 is again not an upgrade, but a cheaper entry point, that can be upgraded to a full B7 as budget permits. Finally, the Golden Gate was made after people pushed lukasz for an all out assault using the most expensive "Bugatti" parts. I have a Big7 and am satisfied, but can see someone else with say Kondo amps and $100K+ speakers wanting a GG to complement their system in terms of looks (Copper casing) and to ease their mind that the parts checklist is the finest imaginable. What difference it makes, I cant really say, but at this level diminishing returns hit hard. However, if I had a Kondo/Vox Olympian setup, I would go for the GG too, as it would seem "right".

Ken, go give the Big7 an honest listen and you will understand why people who have are so passionate about it. Ignore all the doubters who are scared that what we say is in fact true!

Kondo/Vox is overrated. I have heard a Kondo dac that used to retail at 35k once. No biggie. Vox is good, of course, but a lot of the hype is because of the gold etc finish that causes it to be super expensive. Very tough to write against a super expensive component. If I had the money to buy a Vox, I would buy a GIP - Western electric, and after that, the 30k Tune Audio Anima.
 

Alpinist

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Jun 17, 2014
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Lampizator DSD came out 2.5 years ago and offered DSD128 from inception! People seem to be trying to hold them to a different standard than other makes out there, most of which came out with DSD AFTER Lampi and only had DSD64 initially.

Again, I say that people also confuse OPTIONs with upgrades. A balanced L7 is an option, not an upgrade and is meant for those who want in, but run fully balanced systems. A Lite 7 is again not an upgrade, but a cheaper entry point, that can be upgraded to a full B7 as budget permits. Finally, the Golden Gate was made after people pushed lukasz for an all out assault using the most expensive "Bugatti" parts. I have a Big7 and am satisfied, but can see someone else with say Kondo amps and $100K+ speakers wanting a GG to complement their system in terms of looks (Copper casing) and to ease their mind that the parts checklist is the finest imaginable. What difference it makes, I cant really say, but at this level diminishing returns hit hard. However, if I had a Kondo/Vox Olympian setup, I would go for the GG too, as it would seem "right".

Ken, go give the Big7 an honest listen and you will understand why people who have are so passionate about it. Ignore all the doubters who are scared that what we say is in fact true!

Hi Norman,

I would honestly enjoy giving the Big 7 a nice long listen. I know the magic of DHTs and how they can take you right to the recorded venue, while still sitting in your own listening room. But what really intrigues me is Lampi's DSD conversion process. It would be really interesting to be able to isolate it versus one of the best DSD DAC chips (i.e. AK4495S) to determine the true difference in sound quality. It's hard to know how much of the Big 7's excellent performance is DHT magic and how much is DSD conversion magic.

Ken
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Hi Ken,

Bruce Brown and BMoura (PFO) gave rave reviews to the Level 4 DSD Only Dac. many of the online positive feedback is about the L4 DSD, which uses small signal tubes like the ECC40. Only the L7 Lampis with SD have the DHT combo with DSD. I think its a bot better, but there is not an enourmous gulf in performance. As you know, when you are already at a high level, diminishing returns hit hard and that is what people are paying for. YES, I agree DSD loves DSD, but it also loves the ECC40 tube almost as much. Of course the L7 uses more upgraded parts than the L4 and that matters too. Indeed the whole circuit design of his DSd is quite pure and it shows thru in the music, as you can likely tell from the many accolades given by experienced Industry people and audiophiles. I really appreciate teh confirmation, as when I first heard Lampi DSD, I could not be sure that I was not imaging that superb SQ. I had to pinch myself…and it was an early demo unit. When I (much later) heard the B7, I was smitten.

I would love for you to hear it and tell me what you think. Are you going to Axpona? The Lampi guys will be there.
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Kondo/Vox is overrated. I have heard a Kondo dac that used to retail at 35k once. No biggie. Vox is good, of course, but a lot of the hype is because of the gold etc finish that causes it to be super expensive. Very tough to write against a super expensive component. If I had the money to buy a Vox, I would buy a GIP - Western electric, and after that, the 30k Tune Audio Anima.

Bonzo, i was going off price, as I never heard the Vox and only heard the Kondo (amps) once…though it was for a whole weekend (I really liked them). i was not talking about the Dac, which I never heard…I was talking about a hypothetical Kondo amp/Vox system and which Lampi would be the natural complement for that setup...
 

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