rbbert
Don't feel flustered, I felt the same way a few yrs ago, for serious listening it was not.
Don't feel flustered, I felt the same way a few yrs ago, for serious listening it was not.
Let's Talk Computer Audio
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
True, too cheap and too much plastic
If you want the convenience and capabilities of the squeezebox system, but prefer the sound from your computer, you can always run squeezelite on your computer.
Looking to see If it has advanced to be worth time and effort.Ah, I thought this tread was about computer audio...
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
It has, but it still takes time and effort. Don't expect any old computer plugged into even an exceptional DAC to give you the musical pleasure your CD/SACD transport is currently giving you. And yet, with the time and effort, the same DAC can sound better with a computer feeding it than the transport.
OK, but you seemed to support the statement by rbbert that hadn't managed to get his "Squeezebox setup to sound as good as a direct computer to DAC connection". If you don't use a computer to play music, then how can you compare the two?
Gary,
My main concern is the time and effort. Also is there a systematic and universal recipe, that is not dependent on specific brands and models, parts that are not easily available outside the US and will assure some continuity?
The difficult question - did anyone develop a music server that could surpass the DCS Vivaldi CD transport used with its own DAC?
The difficult question - did anyone develop a music server that could surpass the DCS Vivaldi CD transport used with its own DAC?
In terms of measured performance?
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Gary,
My main concern is the time and effort. Also is there a systematic and universal recipe, that is not dependent on specific brands and models, parts that are not easily available outside the US and will assure some continuity?
The difficult question - did anyone develop a music server that could surpass the DCS Vivaldi CD transport used with its own DAC?
My last recipe was based on a Toshiba Laptop - it's 2 years old, so the particular laptop model is already obsolete, but there is enough guidance given to pick an alternative. I don't think that there is such a thing as a universal recipe. I provided my recipe as a public service, and I do answer questions as much as I can when asked.
I have not tried it with the Vivaldi stack, but it does well with the MSB stack and it's own transport, and the Esoteric stack and it's own transport.
There have been much progress in the 2 years since I published the recipe. I just don't have the time to develop a next generation yet.
Hi
Our systems didn't arrive at their present state of excellence by just seating there. We experimented, we discussed, we heard, we listened, we went to shows , we discussed soem more and we improved our systems. It took us a lot of time .. Decades in most instances ... Any new medium one entertains be it Vinyl, tape or DVD requires a certain amount of time to become familiar and to extract the best from it .. I know it for a fact since I am trying to enjoy a Vinyl collection I have and it is somewhat maddening what with with arm geometry set-up and vast differences between cartridges, head amps , etc ... CA requires the same and maybe more if one is not computer savvy ... No! it doesn't mean that one needs to be a computer guru but if one doesn't want to go "under the hood"of a computer you will miss quite a bit unless you invest seriously in a packaged solution. There are many and each claims to be the best each but you already dealt with such claims so ...
Many of the problems reported here are easily solved. For example storage is not an issue ... 4 TB HDD are around $200~300 ... Will take 12,000 CD easily and if needs be you can have your collection in two discs ... for $600 ... that.s 24,000 CD for less than $1000... Does it require some investment in time ? yes!! Of course .. You can do something else and have your whole collection ripped by an outside service. I know of Musicshifter.com but there are many others .. It would cost you about $2500 for 2000 CD ripped to a HDD they provide including shipping both ways ... in FLAC and hopefully with the proper tagging ... For a sizable collection such as rbbert it would cost more you can talk to them about it and there will be some discount for sure ...
Now concerning the performance of CA. It will match and in most cases surpass most transport based solutions and with a fraction of the investment. The proof is in listening and in trying to remove the biases . We, audiophiles are violently against any notion of "blind"testing. I suggest to get over it .. Blind testing does mean DBT a specific protocol it means removing some of the cues that let you know what is playing ... This can be done with a few friends to get a feel of what are the differences if there are any ... As in many things necessary , blind testing is uncomfortable and unsettling. I would tend to think it , however provides more accurate results than sighted testings. I would say that a good PC or mac based music server will surpass most transports with the same and provide Hi-Res on top of that plus for those who care DSD. So do give the darn CA things a good, honest trial. They cost little (in the context of $2,000 Power cords!) and the benefits are incredible ...
As an aside I don't see how dealing with 12,000 physical CD can be easier than 12,000 CD on a hard drive even with the most minimal search from something like foobar, Media Monkey or JRiver .. As for sophisticated interface such as Soolos (Meridian) .... Once you test Soolos there is no way to go back. Storage of 12,000 by itself has to cost more than a serious CA rig with HDDs included ... What would be missing are the liner notes for those who care ... I am not missing the paper from books dooing most of my reading on my iPad anyway ... and I don't read much when I am listening seriously to music and there is the Internet and there is Wikipedia to exract arcane things from many CD and recording that would not fit on liner notes .... Questions to the initiate. Are there liner notes services on the Internet ? Yet?
A little good faith, a little open mind goes a long way toward enjoying a lot of music .. CA brings it to us ...
True, too cheap and too much plastic
...
I didn't mind my Squeezebox experiment at all. I ended up selling the hardware (external PS & Squeezebox) for about $75 less than I paid for it. And I learned what Gary posted: contrary to what many proponents espouse, to beat (or even match) a good disc player you really need to spend time, money and effort. I'm slowly moving in that direction.
As far as CD storage, nice oak dowel shelves which can hold ~1500 discs cost just over $100. It takes me at most 5-10 seconds to find a disc I want, perhaps another 5 to load it. I've played with a few dedicated music servers; none of them will search 12,000 discs (which is certainly more than 4 TB compressed) and load the title to play in that time.
Gary,
My main concern is the time and effort. Also is there a systematic and universal recipe, that is not dependent on specific brands and models, parts that are not easily available outside the US and will assure some continuity?
The difficult question - did anyone develop a music server that could surpass the DCS Vivaldi CD transport used with its own DAC?
My Mac mini (as well as an old MacBook Pro) are almost as good as my MSB Universal Transport, feeding into the MSB Diamond DAC.
"Almost" is not "as good as", and I know that, and I'm perfectly fine with that, since the mini costs a lot less than the transport, does a whole lot more, and allows me a whole new way of listening to music.
There are lots of reports of folks that moved on to CAPS servers, and that those are considerably better than a Mac mini. So, in the end, the computer might just as well be better than the MSB Transport.
And I don't see a reason why it can't be the same with the dCS stuff. At US$ 40k, that transport better beat a $2k server, but I don't think it would.
alexandre
Frantz --
To your point about Wikipedia (and I'd add allmusic and lots of other sites) if you have a computer in your lap or a pad in your hands, you have the internet. Any liner notes that can be printed in a little booklet are going to pale by comparison?
What are you doing under that hood that requires computer savvy?
Tim
To your point about Wikipedia (and I'd add allmusic and lots of other sites) if you have a computer in your lap or a pad in your hands, you have the internet. Any liner notes that can be printed in a little booklet are going to pale by comparison?
What are you doing under that hood that requires computer savvy?
Tim
FWIW, Elberoth (Adam) reported the Berkeley USB converter with his server (hi-man PC server with i5 processor, fast RAM, SSD, Seasonic fanless PSU, various SOtM bits including PCI/USB SOtM card), running Win 7/64, JRMC 17 and JPlay v4.1.) beat the DSC Scarlatti transport.
With an eye toward the future, I personally believe that time spent learning about and developing CA is necessary & worthwhile for audio lovers.
Remember that each new music delivery medium has undergone an evolutionary progression, and CA will be the same.
Lee
Remember that each new music delivery medium has undergone an evolutionary progression, and CA will be the same.
Lee
Kudos to your storage and retrieval skills .. I have a little over 2500 CD and they fit on about 600 GB ... 4 TB will hold 12,000 CDs easily ... even in wav.
At the end it is the enjoyment you derive from your possessions. if you think it is better to have the CDs physically by all means do enjoy so ... your collection on HDD would have been infinitely more accessible ...
bit-perfect and optimization of PC platforms take a little tuning. I am up to Vista and haven't made the move toward Win 7 or 8 ... Did have a Mac Pro but the whole iTunes thing turned me off. I preferred foobar: infinitely customizable ... and Gary server came up ... went to the dark side
.. Not regretting it one bit Similar threads
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