London Decca Jubilee revisited - combination with SME 3012R ?

UEM

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Dec 26, 2017
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Dear all,

I’m a Wannabe-DECCA-Newcomer and seeking advice on a topic that was indeed discussed already way back in at least one similar Thread.
I’m simply curious how this very different technology of the DECCA cartridges could sound.

Hence my query - and also as a possible stumbling stone :
How would a DECCA cartridge perform on a SME 3012R tonearm ?
(It has a bronze bearing, not the original plastic, but without the oil damping facility; suitable Headshells could be acquired if needed, currently I have JELCO, Schick Graphite, and also an ARCHE available.
Turntable is a THORENS TD520)

The opinions stated about DECCA and SME - also in other forums - were unfortunately neither really consistent, nor were they enthusiastically positive, to put it mildly.
Nevertheless, there were a few users, who were quite happy with this set up.

May be some other happy - or frustrated !?! - DECCA & 3012R owners care to comment ?

As indicated, as a “jump into this DECCA adventure”, I would tend to go for the Jubilee, that reportedly has due to the full-metal housing some advantages ?

Thanks for your advice ;) - or warnings !! :eek:

Regards

Urs
 
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Ovenmitt

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Thank you for posting this question Urs.... I am very interested in this cartridge - tonearm combination too. I hope that some WBF members have some direct experience that they can share.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Is this the Decca London Ref? A cart that really splits opinions...I know how I feel about it.
 

bonzo75

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Decca is fantastic on FR 64s and 66s. I get to hear regularly on the 66s
 

spiritofmusic

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Ok. I really struggled w the London Ref.
 

Ovenmitt

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@spiritofmusic what do you mean by "really struggling" with the London ref? I mean, in what way? Would this apply to the Jubilee?

Ked, Is the FR66 heavier (effective mass) than the 3012r? If so, I wonder how it would work on the 3012-series 1?

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread...
 

bonzo75

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@spiritofmusic what do you mean by "really struggling" with the London ref? I mean, in what way? Would this apply to the Jubilee?

Ked, Is the FR66 heavier (effective mass) than the 3012r? If so, I wonder how it would work on the 3012-series 1?

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread...

Am not sure about the details but it is not just the weight. I have been advised that unipivot don't work well with Decca, and linear trackers and fr64 does. Can't tell you exactly why. Decca does eat vinyl when not spot on. It sounds great when it is set up well.
 

Solypsa

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FR66S is quite a bit higher effective mass vs 3012R...opinions on 66S EM vary but it is on the order of +20g vs 3012R.
 

spiritofmusic

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London Ref...and I've only heard it in one system...just shredded at the top end. I could not take the treble for more than 5 mins. A problem when you've driven 2.5 hrs to the demo Lol.
 

Solypsa

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A bit of an aside but I wonder if anyone has tried a Decca with the magnesium-alloy Karmadon (Gray) unipivot?
 

BruceD

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London Ref...and I've only heard it in one system...just shredded at the top end. I could not take the treble for more than 5 mins. A problem when you've driven 2.5 hrs to the demo Lol.

Interesting there Mark--I cannot speak for the Reference--but possibly what the demo you experienced was due to inferior setup--?

I've owned probably 4/5 of the Decca sum and difference carts and when setup with care ( I used the "Pod") they can deliver superb dynamics and attack--plus the Bass is something to behold--only my Win Strain gauge could plug the depths as a could a properly aligned Decca.

I used my all-time fav Pivoted arms--the Breuers although the FR64S was also a credible performer. The 3012R I had was not around when the Decca's I owned were to the fore--sorry will have to pass on that, but I'd certainly be interested myself to learn if the knife edged SME's "chattered":oops:!

Good luck to the poster --interesting thread

BruceD
 

spiritofmusic

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Maybe Bruce. Ironically I still bought the tt and arm despite the cart being painful...and now have a SS Straingauge on it.
 
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miniguy

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Am not sure about the details but it is not just the weight. I have been advised that unipivot don't work well with Decca, and linear trackers and fr64 does. Can't tell you exactly why. Decca does eat vinyl when not spot on. It sounds great when it is set up well.
Decca carts should work very well with unipivot arm since Decca designed one for it.
C5772CF6-67CC-423C-B24F-364C9ECBEFE6.jpeg
 

Stacore

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Had the same question some years ago. Got a Jubilee on tests, installed in heavy Orsonic AV101 headshel. Had also FR200 damper, anticipating problems but don't remember if I finally used it al all. If so, with the smallest paddle. The combo performed beautifully, no tracking issues, resonances (test record measured) withing reasonable limits, no detectable HF ringing, very dynamic and alive as you could expect from a Decca. At that time it didn't stay, but recently we got London Reference into FR64S/Orsonic AV101. Absolutely top top in our experience! Spectacular emotional imaging!

Cheers,
 
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BruceD

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Maybe Bruce. Ironically I still bought the tt and arm despite the cart being painful...and now have a SS Straingauge on it.

Ha Yes well you know what they say re the Deccas-- "a little bit of Heaven and Hell"

Maybe yours had a bit to much to the Right--depends on your leanings I suppose:oops:!

Anyway I'm a big Strain Gauge fan--and I know Peter L as friend --he is one of the the most accommodating fellows in the industry

you are in safe hands there!

Good listening ,

BruceD
 

bonzo75

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London Ref...and I've only heard it in one system...just shredded at the top end. I could not take the treble for more than 5 mins. A problem when you've driven 2.5 hrs to the demo Lol.

That happens when it is not set up right
 
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bonzo75

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Audiophile Bill

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I have a nos Decca Blue - it requires quite a lot more time to dial in versus other carts I have owned. But if you do get it spot on, it brings unrivalled dynamics and life. There is nothing I have heard with that level of explosiveness and vibrancy. The very top end lacked the ultimate refinement of the best MC but it is a case of pick your poison. It is also very juicy on the tone front when dialled in perfectly.
 
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UEM

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There are many reports about incorrect set up of the DECCAs leading to all sorts of problems.
BUT, there is hope that sometimes small tuning steps can make a huge difference ....nothing new with Analogue...?! ;)
One tuning feature of the 3012R , not found in many tonearms, is the lateral balance adjustment – could be worth a gamble ? :cool:


Regards

Urs

PS: Bill, our posts just crossed....
 
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