Maganpan .7 Subwoofer Choice?

[Lgm656]

Hello, group. I have a new, unopened pair of Magnapan .7 Speakers.
Was thinking about adding a Subwoofer.

I know the Magnapans are somewhat picky about their subs. That being said, what are everyone’s thoughts on a JBL 1200p? Good price on a high quality Sub, just curious if this would work well with my .7s ?

Thanks everyone for your feedback, suggestions, and replies.

 

[jep123]

Hi.
The REL T/x series is a good choice with Maggies IMO.

JP

 

[Alrainbow]

I would try a sub that’s non servo powered
the Maggie’s are fast and a servo will be slower sounding and a possible leading to muddy sound in low frequencies
the panels will be playing the same frequencies unless you modify the cross over.
lastly use a self powered sub that can use speaker level as an input.
in this method the tone of the amps used for the panels will match better.
dsp can be used to better integrate the sub
but consider this choice carefully as it also is a slight delay due to its processing the signal
as I own a pair of Maggie’s 3.6r they do need a sub in certain situations
ps I’m not anti servo but do feel fixing the sound after it’s sounded already is a Time Machine event.

 

[Lgm656]

Hi.
The REL T/x series is a good choice with Maggies IMO.

JP

Thank you so much for your reply. Will check them out! Happy Holidays!

 

[DonH50]

I have had a variety of subs with Maggies over the years and always preferred servos. The bandwidth of the sub sets the "speed" in terms of frequency response, so is roughly the same for any sub, but transient response is better with a servo to control cone movement. My current choice is Rythmik; their voice-coil based servo has some advantages over accelerometer-based servo sensors used in many other subs.

 

[Lgm656]

I have had a variety of subs with Maggies over the years and always preferred servos. The bandwidth of the sub sets the "speed" in terms of frequency response, so is roughly the same for any sub, but transient response is better with a servo to control cone movement. My current choice is Rythmik; their voice-coil based servo has some advantages over accelerometer-based servo sensors used in many other subs.

Thank you so much for your reply, Don. Will certainly check them out.

 

[Alrainbow]

I have had a variety of subs with Maggies over the years and always preferred servos. The bandwidth of the sub sets the "speed" in terms of frequency response, so is roughly the same for any sub, but transient response is better with a servo to control cone movement. My current choice is Rythmik; their voice-coil based servo has some advantages over accelerometer-based servo sensors used in many other subs.

Have you tried any non servo subs ?
Not just by measuring alone but listening and placement ?
I do agree in voice-coil over Accel types
but no matter what is done it’s after things have happened. this is why measuring is not all there is.
sometimes I think what we think is better or correct is in effect wrong as it should be
many servo have the boom but not the pop as they control the rise and chase the top and slow the decay.
we look for tight bass but tight is not always what’s correct. a foot stop on stage can show how sometimes things go sideways
I am in the process of installing new woofers in my nyc place to remove servo sound effects

 

[DonH50]

Have you tried any non servo subs ?
Not just by measuring alone but listening and placement ?

Many times, probably dozens of subs over the years, from cheap to pushing $100k USD, servo and various conventional (and less conventional like panel or open-baffle) designs. Mostly without measurements, or very few, until the last decade or two, and rarely have I bothered to measure a subwoofer by itself. The first sub for my Maggies I designed and built myself, and it was a servo model because the conventional models of the time (ca. early 1980's) did not have the performance to integrate well with my Magnepans. There were a couple of commercial servo subs at the time but they were out of my budget as a college kid.

I do agree in voice-coil over Accel types

Common ground!

but no matter what is done it’s after things have happened. this is why measuring is not all there is.

I did not mention measuring nor have I ever said that is all there is. People seem to think because I am an engineer that I never listen. I am also an audiophile, and a musician, and find the continual attacks on my personal inclusion of measurements as part of system development and fine tuning rather insulting.

sometimes I think what we think is better or correct is in effect wrong as it should be

I suppose it comes down to how you define and determine terms like "better", "correct", and "wrong". I tend to think in terms of accuracy, which for audio is accuracy to the source material. I will often enough give that up for preference, however, given things like my room is not a concert hall and I routinely listen at lower than concert hall levels.

many servo have the boom but not the pop as they control the rise and chase the top and slow the decay.
we look for tight bass but tight is not always what’s correct. a foot stop on stage can show how sometimes things go sideways

I do not know what "many" servo means (how many different servo and non-servo subs) but it doesn't really matter. Risetime is usually a function of sub design and crossover which limits the upper end of the frequency response. And rightly so IME/IMO; "pop" comes from frequencies well above the subwoofer range. The servo, if properly designed and implented, will provide much cleaner attack and decay that is truer to the source. Which may or may not be desirable to any given listener. A servo system can provide much better control of attack and decay for the sub itself, but so can a low-impedance high-power amplifier driving a conventional design. I have had very good results with either.

My usual response if that is off is that there is an integration or frequency response (balance) issue with the system. If a sub sounds boomy, servo or not, then to me something is wrong. Tight bass if accurate to the source will sound "loose" if the source sounds like that, for example a "loose" kettle drum in an orchestra. And of course the room has a major influence on the response.

I am in the process of installing new woofers in my nyc place to remove servo sound effects

Your choice, though I do wonder if there is something else going on, but arguing about it on the internet is unlikely to change any minds or resolve anything. Clearly our experiences differ and all that matters is what you (I, anyone) like(s) to hear.

 

[Alrainbow]

I did not mention measuring nor have I ever said that is all there is. People seem to think because I am an engineer that I never listen. I am also an audiophile, and a musician, and find the continual attacks on my personal inclusion of measurements as part of system development and fine tuning rather insulting.

I had no intention to insult you nor did I know what your background is.
I’m not one to look up titles for people here but now I do see you have a long one lol. I don’t want to know how much a given product cost until I’m satisfied in its quality
It skews my thinking.
While it seems we do hear things different , the how you arrive at conclusions is not my concern.
One last comment how high the sub freq needed does effect the possible outcomes of using a servo do we agree on this point ?

 

[DonH50]

I had no intention to insult you nor did I know what your background is.

Apologies for assuming; it is the reason I rarely post here. Engineers and objective data are rarely welcome.

I’m not one to look up titles for people here but now I do see you have a long one lol.

It was given unto me by the forum owners and most folk ignore titles anyway.

I don’t want to know how much a given product cost until I’m satisfied in its quality
It skews my thinking.

I use price mainly to bound the upper end of what I listen to, though I tend in any listening test to include at least one product well above my upper end to see what I might be missing.

While it seems we do hear things different , the how you arrive at conclusions is not my concern.
One last comment how high the sub freq needed does effect the possible outcomes of using a servo do we agree on this point ?

I do not know what you mean by outcomes. The higher the subwoofer's frequency response the greater the servo bandwidth needed, and the harder it is to design a stable system, especially given the electromechanical nature of the loop that adds significant signal lag. If you need extended response above perhaps 200~300 Hz from your subwoofer, a servo design may be difficult if not impossible to find. Good and bad designs can exist with or without a servo circuit.

System integration requires good performance about an octave above and below the crossover frequency from the sub and mains respectively. That places additional demands upon the speakers and sub(s), servo or not, to provide smooth frequency response (amplitude and phase).

 

[Alrainbow]

You got what I meant and your Answer makes good sense to me.
This I totally agree with a servo below 60 or less freq
regarding titles I have to admit when I see expert lol this is a trigger warning lol. Not in your case you do take the time to make a meaningful reply.
I am willing to say my grammar and spelling are way below what’s needed and this does make it difficult to understand me.
but you did try lol
on my irs v the servo is old tech and accel on cone to add the woofers are below what can be had today.
Was pretty cheap to buy 13
new ones that can be in sealed cabinet and should work. One is a spare
Now box fill , placement and eq will be part of this modification
and I might end up with a Mid bass coupler as well.
I do have a speaker builder guiding me as this is above my pay grade. Not in understanding but knowing what’s correct
this is where experience is required.
you seem to have the tech , experience and knowledge learned in building.
anyway good replies

 

[DonH50]

You got what I meant and your Answer makes good sense to me.
This I totally agree with a servo below 60 or less freq
regarding titles I have to admit when I see expert lol this is a trigger warning lol. Not in your case you do take the time to make a meaningful reply.
I am willing to say my grammar and spelling are way below what’s needed and this does make it difficult to understand me.
but you did try lol
on my irs v the servo is old tech and accel on cone to add the woofers are below what can be had today.
Was pretty cheap to buy 13
new ones that can be in sealed cabinet and should work. One is a spare
Now box fill , placement and eq will be part of this modification
and I might end up with a Mid bass coupler as well.
I do have a speaker builder guiding me as this is above my pay grade. Not in understanding but knowing what’s correct
this is where experience is required.
you seem to have the tech , experience and knowledge learned in building.
anyway good replies

Thanks, I do try, but the language barrier can be difficult. Not English vs. some other spoken/written language, though that can be an issue, but using common engineering terms that are not common to most non-engineering readers. Of course the same can be said about audiophile terms, many of which everyone sort of "knows", but are not well defined. As an anal design engineer, that drives me nuts, but it's a short drive.

Perhaps ironically, my first subwoofer used a woofer from an IRS (I worked for a shop that sold and serviced them at the time). I used the second voice coil for feedback (in the actual IRS, it was part of the crossover network). Woofer cost me ~$300 ca. 1979 or 1980, a huge sum for me back then.

Audio was one possible career out of college but I took another path. High-end audio firms were by and large not hiring new grads even with some experience in the field. I enjoyed designing high-speed data converter and analog integrated circuits that wound up in some interesting places (space shuttle, fighter jets, medical scanners, etc.) Audio has been a hobby "forever" (rarely made money from it outside working for stereo shops) though now I mostly just buy the stuff and set it up rather than build my own.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I rarely post here. Engineers and objective data are rarely welcome.

You and your data are very welcome here, Don!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hello, group. I have a new, unopened pair of Magnapan .7 Speakers.
Was thinking about adding a Subwoofer.

Hello Lgm656,

Welcome to WBF!

I would add subwoofers to a ham sandwich. So I definitely would add subwoofers to Magnepan .7s!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Hello, group. I have a new, unopened pair of Magnapan .7 Speakers.
Was thinking about adding a Subwoofer.

I know the Magnapans are somewhat picky about their subs. That being said, what are everyone’s thoughts on a JBL 1200p? Good price on a high quality Sub, just curious if this would work well with my .7s ?

Thanks everyone for your feedback, suggestions, and replies.

I'd like to direct you (and others) to this site: https://www.vpeelectrodynamics.com/
One of its three proprietors. and the tech one, is Don Bingaman, an experienced aerospace engineer and audiophile. The company is commited to dipole speakers and woofers. While I cannot offer any personal experiences with the products but I know and respect Don. Might be of interest to you and other Magnepan devotees.