Magico M9 vs. Magico Ultimate 3 Horn- Box vs. Horn! Which will be better? In which ways?

caesar

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Just a handful of years ago, Magico Ultimate Horn was considered the best speaker in the world - by some.

But after arguing for horn virtues for their flagship, Magico is moving away from horns.

Yes, M9 is better looking, but considering both require a dedicated room to bring out their full potential, what will Magico gain from going with box speakers? And what will they give up?
 

bonzo75

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Alrainbow

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Less Honk more crank .... :)
 

Mike Lavigne

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objectively; the M9 can stay with an all analog signal path, and expected advantage in bass integration and extension. likely more authoritative sounding and might scale better with big complicated music. likely better resale advantages as it can fit into most systems as it is.

Ultimates would be expected to be more immediate and micro-dynamic sounding and disappear better. very flexible amplifier choices, but you need four or five channels per speaker. there is an all analog crossover option for the Ultimates, but it's not the highest performing approach.

otherwise matters of taste, both visual and presentation. and both are likely neutral tonally, so season to taste with amp and set-up choices.
 
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morricab

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objectively; the M9 can stay with an all analog signal path, and expected advantage in bass integration and extension. likely more authoritative sounding and might scale better with big complicated music. likely better resale advantages as it can fit into most systems as it is.

Ultimates would be expected to be more immediate and micro-dynamic sounding and disappear better. very flexible amplifier choices, but you need four or five channels per speaker. there is an all analog crossover option for the Ultimates, but it's not the highest performing approach.

otherwise matters of taste, both visual and presentation. and both are likely neutral tonally, so season to taste with amp and set-up choices.

Did the Magico horn use DSP or did it use a Pass active analog xover?
 

the sound of Tao

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morricab

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objectively; the M9 can stay with an all analog signal path, and expected advantage in bass integration and extension. likely more authoritative sounding and might scale better with big complicated music. likely better resale advantages as it can fit into most systems as it is.

Ultimates would be expected to be more immediate and micro-dynamic sounding and disappear better. very flexible amplifier choices, but you need four or five channels per speaker. there is an all analog crossover option for the Ultimates, but it's not the highest performing approach.

otherwise matters of taste, both visual and presentation. and both are likely neutral tonally, so season to taste with amp and set-up choices.

What makes you think the M9 would scale better and sound more authoritative? I don't see that at all. Bass integration you have a potential point but I think the extension is probably pretty comparable. The horns will sound effortless with big complicated music...barely working at concert levels but the M9 will be pumping hard to do something similar and probably already compressing.
 

bonzo75

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objectively; the M9 can stay with an all analog signal path, and expected advantage in bass integration and extension. likely more authoritative sounding and might scale better with big complicated music. likely better resale advantages as it can fit into most systems as it is.

Ultimates would be expected to be more immediate and micro-dynamic sounding and disappear better. very flexible amplifier choices, but you need four or five channels per speaker. there is an all analog crossover option for the Ultimates, but it's not the highest performing approach.

otherwise matters of taste, both visual and presentation. and both are likely neutral tonally, so season to taste with amp and set-up choices.

Mike, what is this based on? Yours is the only cone SS system I have heard that scales more than horns. Henk's grands scale, but they are also a one off and not cones. Others are like 20 percent or less. They suffer at scale, dynamic range, tone, immediacy, coherence, bass, midbass, highs, and transparency. Every front, compared to the good horns.

Not saying anything in favor of ultimates vs M9 per se as I haven't heard either, the ultimate only at Munich (jazzhead heard it in the middle east he wasn't impressed).

Horns don't only excel at immediacy. And yes I haven't heard a DSP horn I like, but they can be made to scale as you please, like the ESD acoustics horn in Munich last year.

This is why I had unsubscribed from this thread, the discussion is pure masturbation
 

Duke LeJeune

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But after arguing for horn virtues for their flagship, Magico is moving away from horns.

The Ultimate put Magico in the awkward position of sending mixed messages. As a "statement" speaker it was arguably a fail, as the "statement" it made did NOT promote what Alon Wolff was doing in the rest of the lineup.

(Ironically in a way it DID promote what I was doing, as I could point to it and say, "See, even Magico knows that horns are the Ultimate!" Not that I scored any sales from doing so.)
 

caesar

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Yeah, we will have to see how the TAS reviewers will twist themselves out of the pretzel on that one...

But interestingly, Harley is reviewing the Wilson Wamm Junior. We all know the pattern with that guy: it's going to be the BEST...

But then Wolf will get this latest Magico to him, and it will undoubtedly trump that Wilson.
 

Blackmorec

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The horns will sound effortless with big complicated music...barely working at concert levels but the M9 will be pumping hard to do something similar and probably already compressing.
Surely that depends entirely on the size of the room in which the speakers are installed and the distance between speaker and listener? If a speaker like the M9 is compressing in order to provide realistic concert hall levels, its the room and speaker-listener distance that’s the problem.
 

andromedaaudio

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Yeah, we will have to see how the TAS reviewers will twist themselves out of the pretzel on that one...

But interestingly, Harley is reviewing the Wilson Wamm Junior. We all know the pattern with that guy: it's going to be the BEST...

But then Wolf will get this latest Magico to him, and it will undoubtedly trump that Wilson.
May be the sequence should be changed then , who to bring in first .
To give different outcomes
 

Alrainbow

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Not a fan of TAS or subjective only reviews . Mags like SP who do both subjective and objective measurements are more meaningful reviews IMO ..
 

totaldac

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Aug 17, 2012
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Hello,
The visitors at Totaldac in Europe can compare the Magico M6s and a large full horn system in a same place (door to next door with same electronics). Maybe it helps imagining M9 vs Ultimate.
Visitors have not been as numerous as before because of lock-down and consequences, so be welcome back!

Upgrading M6 with M9, maybe later...:)

totaldac_d150_magico_M6_4.jpg

totaldac_coax_horn_1200.jpg
 

jeffrey_t

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Jan 29, 2012
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Hello,
The visitors at Totaldac in Europe can compare the Magico M6s and a large full horn system in a same place (door to next door with same electronics). Maybe it helps imagining M9 vs Ultimate.
Visitors have not been as numerous as before because of lock-down and consequences, so be welcome back!

Upgrading M6 with M9, maybe later...:)

View attachment 69022

View attachment 69023
I absolutely love the large wood horn of the totaldac horn. I don’t see the subwoofer in the picture, how low do the speakers go without this horn?
 

totaldac

Industry Expert
Aug 17, 2012
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www.totaldac.com
I absolutely love the large wood horn of the totaldac horn. I don’t see the subwoofer in the picture, how low do the speakers go without this horn?
Thank you.
The front horns go to about 30Hz but with some room problems under 45Hz, so I added a subwoofer in a corner at the back of the room. From this corner the 28Hz-50Hz zone is pretty flat.
I like this subwoofer because it sounds clean and effortless. Efficiency is higher than 100dB/1W/1m.

sub_at_the_back2.jpg

It is a custom 2.5m tall tapped horn subwoofer using one 18inch driver, usable from 20Hz to 55Hz. It takes the signal from the main speakers (high level) and uses a 50Hz 6dB passive filter, then to a FP7000 Lab Gruppen power amplifier (made silent).

There is also a infinite baffle subwoofer above the bass horn, using 8 pieces of 15inch woofer, but using low efficiency woofers. They sound too slow so there are OFF for the moment. I may upgrade them with high efficiency woofers (with strong BL).
This infinite baffle covered 8Hz to 28Hz.

8IB15.jpg

IBrear.jpg
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2010
3,514
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498
Hello,
The visitors at Totaldac in Europe can compare the Magico M6s and a large full horn system in a same place (door to next door with same electronics). Maybe it helps imagining M9 vs Ultimate.
Visitors have not been as numerous as before because of lock-down and consequences, so be welcome back!

Upgrading M6 with M9, maybe later...:)

View attachment 69022

View attachment 69023

Hi TotalDac,
Brilliant stuff!

And your DACs are to die for! So emotionally satisfying. Truly a magical experience. Thank you for all the hard work to get it exactly perfect!

And yeah, I think it would be awesome if you could get a pair of Magico M9s in your place. It would make a great excuse for guys to get away from their family for a few hours during their trip to France. A win - win :)
 

totaldac

Industry Expert
Aug 17, 2012
284
219
275
France
www.totaldac.com
Hi TotalDac,
Brilliant stuff!

And your DACs are to die for! So emotionally satisfying. Truly a magical experience. Thank you for all the hard work to get it exactly perfect!

And yeah, I think it would be awesome if you could get a pair of Magico M9s in your place. It would make a great excuse for guys to get away from their family for a few hours during their trip to France. A win - win :)

Thank you!
Selling the demo pair of M6s would not even allow me to buy one piece of M9 :)

Yes some people decided to come and visit my region (Mont Saint Michel) with their wife, but I suspect their organised that to come for a visit here, even without the M9!:)
 

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