Magnepans vs. Electrostatics. What is the better technology? What do you prefer?

bonzo75

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ack

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I just read this entire thread from the beginning, which I had never done before. This thread confirms my view and faith that, despite the heated objectivist/subjectivist debates, and my "natural" post, on other threads, this is not a nihilistic hobby devoid of common and accepted understandings and determinate, meaningful (if subjective) descriptions.

Many of the posts on this thread reflect wide agreement on subtle nuances of the characteristics of electrostatic speakers versus planar magnetic versus ribbon and versus various hybrids thereof. Putting it more simply, we understand -- and actually hear -- exactly what each other is talking about. I think this thread is successful significantly because many of the members who posted here have literally one or more decades of experience with one more of the planar speakers and technologies discussed here. Subtle differences and subjective preferences aside, most members on this thread agree that the different speaker technologies discussed on this thread are just different flavors of wonderful.

Now back to directly relevant thread comments . . .

I enjoyed MG-IIIAs for three years before choosing in 1989 between staying with Magnepan or switching to Apogee or MartinLogan. I switched to MartinLogan and have enjoyed ML speakers (now Prodigys) for the last 26 years. I have always been well aware of imperfections in ML speakers, and I understand and respect the critiques of ML hybrids. Only this year have I begin to consider alternatives to ML.

1) Through my auditioning recently of a couple of top-of-the-line dynamic driver speakers I have begun to realize the importance of truly non-resonant cabinets. I think that phenolic resin and carbon fiber cabinets are the primary reason for the high cost of Wilson and Rockport speakers versus Magnepans and MartinLogans -- and for the transparent sound quality of those conventional cone driver speakers.

When you think about the relatively flimsy wood frames of Magnepan speakers (yes, I know the 20.7 weighs about 160 pounds) and the not very inert MDF boxes housing ML woofers in the hybrid models, imagine how much better those planar speakers would sound if their sound-producing components were housed in cabinets of phenolic resin. Imagine the innards of the Magnepan MG-20.7 encased in a phenolic resin frame 79" tall and weighing 400 or more pounds. Imagine the resonances in the Magnepan wood frame which would disappear in such a phenolic resin frame. Imagine the improvement in sound quality from those resonances disappearing. Imagine the ML Summit cabinet not vibrating from the woofers inside playing music, and the woofer cabinet not vibrating the electrostatic panel.

I described in my T.H.E. Show Irvine review of the ML Neolith why I do not care for full-range electrostatic panels, and in which frequency range ML hybrids leave me wanting more impact and dynamics. See MartinLogan Neolith, post #64 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14722-Martin-Logan-Neolith/page7&highlight=neolith

ML, in my opinion, has made a breakthrough in hybrid planar design by encasing the Neolith's panel and dynamic drivers in a rigid, phenolic resin frame and cabinet. Dynamic driver speaker companies realized a long time ago the importance of making their cabinets as inert as possible. Planar speaker companies have rested on the laurels of their technologically advanced driver designs for far too long. I do not know if Jim Winey will follow suit (I doubt he will) but I think encasing panel components in non-resonant cabinets will usher in a new level of performance from planar speakers (resulting in a weight of 375 pounds for the Neolith versus 130 pounds for the Prodigy).

2) I suspect -- I have yet to confirm in a quiet, leisurely listening audition -- that the ML Neolith is a breakthrough product A) because the phenolic resin cabinet (which looks it was made by Wilson, and I intend that to be high praise) will reduce unwanted resonances far better than the wood woofer boxes and the hard plastic panel frames of the Prodigy and Summit and Statement I and II, and B) the 12" woofer which reaches to 450 Hz (higher than any cone in ML history, including the Statement I and II) will go a long way to satisfying people (including me) who have found the ML hybrids unsatisfying dynamically in the upper bass/lower midrange frequency range.

Great post! I don't know why I never participated in this thread, having owned MLs and Magnepans (MG IIIAs) at the same time in two different systems for decades, and also think very highly of Analysis Audio and Apogees, and panels in general. The issues you describe with the older hybrids, like yours and mine, can be easily fixed to a very large degree, and that's what I have done. I can point you to the detailed threads on martinloganowners.com if you are interested (or just look up my system's thread here), to see the structural and crossover changes.

Keep in mind, though, it's a lot of work, and requires that you obtain the crossover schematic from MartinLogan and obviously be able to understand it - the good thing is that, because these speakers are truly bi-ampable, they actually sport different crossovers for the panels and woofers (in fact, it's three crossovers, one per woofer, one for the panel - try finding anything like this in mega-buck speakers; the point being, you can voice the speaker any which way you want, which is what I eventually did: find the best spot for the panels in the room, then voice the woofers to the room, and there is probably nothing better that this, not even DSP). The results, though, are completely transformational; and if you complete the work with new higher-tech woofers (as I have), then all there is left from the originals is the power supply, panel and outter MDF shell. One thing you cannot fix is the stators' own vibrations, which ought to color the sound in some way or another.

PS: Folks on this forum have been instrumental in helping me with crossover-related decisions...

PPS: I know very little about the Neolith, but I can tell you, I've never owned nor cared for a single ported speaker in my life.
 

Gregadd

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I have previously referred to Magnepanr and Martin Logan as Betty anf veronica. Betty Gets along with everyone and Verronica is a snob. "If you hear the Magnegnepan you will buy them". Literally true for me. I took them home the same day I heard them.(Actually they were delivered the next day.) They sounded good with everythng. ML -CLS They were "dtuck up" and had to wooed. Once you get them the right "frignds" around it was fantastic.

When it comes to saxophone and double bass the Maggies are a revelation. Magnepan never rested on its laurels and the ribbon tweeter version may actually be better. The Martin Logan Statement e2 is one of the best I ever heard.
 

TitaniumTroy

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Jan 11, 2011
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I prefer Magnepan's with true ribbon tweets, for the following reasons: The True Ribbon tweeter IMO sounds better and has less distortion than an ESL and has better dispersion. A planer magnetic has greater excursion and so can move more air. Hence it can play louder and play deeper in a comparative size panel. I prefer the planer bass of the Maggies vs the ML Hybrid woofers, even though they can play louder and lower than a Maggie. ESL's seem to have the edge in midrange detail, but hey I never said Maggies were perfect.

However I did like the sound of the ML Neolith hybrid woofers. Compared to the CLX's with the Descent subwoofers, just somtehing about having a larger panel made them sound better to me.
 
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Mendel

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I just read this entire thread from the beginning, which I had never done before. This thread confirms my view and faith that, despite the heated objectivist/subjectivist debates, and my "natural" post, on other threads, this is not a nihilistic hobby devoid of common and accepted understandings and determinate, meaningful (if subjective) descriptions.

Many of the posts on this thread reflect wide agreement on subtle nuances of the characteristics of electrostatic speakers versus planar magnetic versus ribbon and versus various hybrids thereof. Putting it more simply, we understand -- and actually hear -- exactly what each other is talking about. I think this thread is successful significantly because many of the members who posted here have literally one or more decades of experience with one more of the planar speakers and technologies discussed here. Subtle differences and subjective preferences aside, most members on this thread agree that the different speaker technologies discussed on this thread are just different flavors of wonderful.

Now back to directly relevant thread comments . . .

I enjoyed MG-IIIAs for three years before choosing in 1989 between staying with Magnepan or switching to Apogee or MartinLogan. I switched to MartinLogan and have enjoyed ML speakers (now Prodigys) for the last 26 years. I have always been well aware of imperfections in ML speakers, and I understand and respect the critiques of ML hybrids. Only this year have I begin to consider alternatives to ML.

1) Through my auditioning recently of a couple of top-of-the-line dynamic driver speakers I have begun to realize the importance of truly non-resonant cabinets. I think that phenolic resin and carbon fiber cabinets are the primary reason for the high cost of Wilson and Rockport speakers versus Magnepans and MartinLogans -- and for the transparent sound quality of those conventional cone driver speakers.

When you think about the relatively flimsy wood frames of Magnepan speakers (yes, I know the 20.7 weighs about 160 pounds) and the not very inert MDF boxes housing ML woofers in the hybrid models, imagine how much better those planar speakers would sound if their sound-producing components were housed in cabinets of phenolic resin. Imagine the innards of the Magnepan MG-20.7 encased in a phenolic resin frame 79" tall and weighing 400 or more pounds. Imagine the resonances in the Magnepan wood frame which would disappear in such a phenolic resin frame. Imagine the improvement in sound quality from those resonances disappearing. Imagine the ML Summit cabinet not vibrating from the woofers inside playing music, and the woofer cabinet not vibrating the electrostatic panel.

I described in my T.H.E. Show Irvine review of the ML Neolith why I do not care for full-range electrostatic panels, and in which frequency range ML hybrids leave me wanting more impact and dynamics. See MartinLogan Neolith, post #64 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14722-Martin-Logan-Neolith/page7&highlight=neolith

ML, in my opinion, has made a breakthrough in hybrid planar design by encasing the Neolith's panel and dynamic drivers in a rigid, phenolic resin frame and cabinet. Dynamic driver speaker companies realized a long time ago the importance of making their cabinets as inert as possible. Planar speaker companies have rested on the laurels of their technologically advanced driver designs for far too long. I do not know if Jim Winey will follow suit (I doubt he will) but I think encasing panel components in non-resonant cabinets will usher in a new level of performance from planar speakers (resulting in a weight of 375 pounds for the Neolith versus 130 pounds for the Prodigy).

2) I suspect -- I have yet to confirm in a quiet, leisurely listening audition -- that the ML Neolith is a breakthrough product A) because the phenolic resin cabinet (which looks it was made by Wilson, and I intend that to be high praise) will reduce unwanted resonances far better than the wood woofer boxes and the hard plastic panel frames of the Prodigy and Summit and Statement I and II, and B) the 12" woofer which reaches to 450 Hz (higher than any cone in ML history, including the Statement I and II) will go a long way to satisfying people (including me) who have found the ML hybrids unsatisfying dynamically in the upper bass/lower midrange frequency range.

Totally agree with this post.
If Mr. Acoustat was still with us (very much missed, RIP Mr. A) he would tell you about his friend Jocelyn in Quebec who custom builds frames for Acoustats out of thick steel and real wood. The resulting speakers are extremely heavy and non resonant. This is supposedly a major boost in their performance. His 1 plus 1 were rebuilt this way and weighed well over 100 pounds each.
The Sound Lab Ultimates also use very heavy steel frames.
This is the next frontier in electrostatic performance.
 

Lee

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I prefer Magnepan's with true ribbon tweets, for the following reasons: The True Ribbon tweeter IMO sounds better and has less distortion than an ESL and has better dispersion. A planer magnetic has greater excursion and so can move more air. Hence it can play louder and play deeper in a comparative size panel. I prefer the planer bass of the Maggies vs the ML Hybrid woofers, even though they can play louder and lower than a Maggie. ESL's seem to have the edge in midrange detail, but hey I never said Maggies were perfect.

However I did like the sound of the ML Neolith hybrid woofers. Compared to the CLX's with the Descent subwoofers, just somtehing about having a larger panel made them sound better to me.

Great post and I agree with it.
 

TitaniumTroy

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I have to agree the Sanders transmission bass blends very well with the ESL panel. Best I have heard so far, though I am not fond of Sanders asymmtrical room set up. While it might help with room nodes, it screws up the imaging for me anyway.

I would also agree with Ron Resnick that a Magnepan speaker in a non resonant frame, be it steel or phenolic based would be a definite upgrade. I was lucky in that my used Magnepan 3.6s came with MYE stands, if I was more of a DIY guy I would take on the so-called Razoring mod. Done by some of the guys over at the Planer Asylum, which involves using a vibration deadening material like Dynamat. Applied in razored sections to the pole piece and the steel perforated sheet, in order to damp down resonances.
 

DonH50

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Various stand mods for Maggies (and ESLs) have been around for ages. They do improve the (measured) impulse response, but IME most of the time are not heard in a blind test. Not always true, especially in the low frequencies, where bracing can help. Another oft-overlooked issue with panels is that they exhibit modes that are essentially the planar equivalent of cone breakup. And of course distortion goes through the roof with deep bass (measuring 40 Hz tones at 90+ dB SPL was revealing and somewhat vexing; part of what drove my sub design back in the early 80's). The integration problem in hybrids is an issue but seems much better these days at least with my limited listening experience (mainly ML). ML had a huge (IMO) problem maybe 10 ~ 15 years ago but today's designs seem much better. Setting the crossover too high leads to a very audible shift in dispersion that corrupts the image, again IMO, and that has been a drawback for many hybrid designs. Crossing over at or below the panel's transition frequency (from line to more conventional dispersion) makes a big difference.

I love my Maggies, but am looking seriously at Sanders when they finally die. I have long had mixed feelings on Magnepan vs. various ESLs vs. good conventional designs. I will stick to panels but whether dynamic or electrostatic is TBD.

All IME/IMO/FWIWFM/etc. - Don
 

TitaniumTroy

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Don, any thoughts on GT Audio's True Ribbon Tweeter, planer midrange and sealed dynamic woofers? I mean design wise as neither one of us has heard them?
 

bonzo75

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I think GT Audio is great and I wanted to post them on the State of High End Audio thread for FrantzM's cheap giant killer system, but am worried about joining that thread.
 

DonH50

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Don, any thoughts on GT Audio's True Ribbon Tweeter, planer midrange and sealed dynamic woofers? I mean design wise as neither one of us has heard them?

Thoughts, yes, but without more research and hearing them I am not really competent to comment.

Sealed woofers have historically been preferred with planars (planar magnetic, ribbon, or ESL) because they were better damped than vented designs. Ports lead to ringing around the port frequency but I am not a speaker designer able to debate their merits. My original DIY sub was ported but used a servo circuit so was very clean. My current subs are sealed and servo'd. My experience, mostly very dated, is that good design and a low-impedance amplifier (which usually means big, as in high-wattage) can make a clean sub, servo or no.

My issues through the years have been more about the crossover frequency and integration (primarily phase and impulse response) than sealed vs. ported. That said, listening tests clearly showed my servo design bested some of the best subs available back then, and the biggest measurement differences were lower distortion and much less ringing in the time domain. I built ported and sealed versions but with the servo the biggest differences were in the size of the box rather than audible differences (within their respective frequency and output ranges, natch). With the servo turned off, the vented design did ring more as expected, though distortion was still comparable to the sealed design over most of the range.

Since this is about comparisons, I'll dip back into hot water by saying I have not really liked the full-range ESL's I have heard, mainly Soundlabs and big Accoustats. I found the top end to be a bit rolled off or "strained" and the bass a bit boomy or bloated. The big caveat is that I have not heard Soundlab in ten years or more and folk tell me they are much improved. And you need a good amp to handle the low impedance at HF; I loved the sound of tubes in the midrange, despite the knowledge that was due largely to higher distortion, but felt bass and high treble (which I can no longer hear, alas) was better with a SS amp driving Maggies or ESLs. I used to use a tube mid/treble amp and hybrid (tube in/SS output stages) bass amp when I bi-amped my MG-IIIa's. These days I drive them with a fairly cheap SS amp but they sound OK to me.

As an aside, Quad developed a clever driving scheme to help compensate both dispersion and panel modes. I never heard those in something like an HQD system, always wondered how they might have sounded (only heard the originals in an HQD, though the store I worked carried Quad so I was able to compare them by themselves). For that matter, for all their output power and sheer awesomeness, I never felt those big Hartley woofers sounded that clean, nor went all that low...
 

roberto

Well-Known Member
Hola. First of all, I have to say that the speakers options on these days are stunning. We have a big different kinds of speakers and sound liking. What I do like most is quality. I am a happy owner of a pair of ML model CLXs, and I do love what I get from them. The most important is to be happy and enjoying what we have. Perhaps there are other speakers options, that performs better, but I am again, very happy with them.

My very first planars were Magneplanar, most models at that time, and ended with the Tympany 3B, until I listen a pair of CLS. I lived with them various years, because I did like the look, and of course their sound. I also had them with a pair of good subs.

Sound liking is like food. There are food that you do not like, and other that drives you crazy for it, right? And my liking could be totally different than yours. It is just a matter of taste. Some people love garlic, other hate it!.

To my liking, what its important (than having bass energy, or crystal mid range, or sweet silky highs), are the musical instruments, voices, and the way that they are projected in my place. I listen how a piano or a cymbal is right there, at my imaginary stage. Having the air between instruments and vocals, having a not sore throats singing for me, or just a Spanish guitar player plucking the strings and listening carefully which strings he is playing is what I do love. Understanding the left hand vs the right hand of a piano player easily. Having the right size of each instrument, and also the right timbre. Also, the nuances and the feeling of the musician(s) playing right there...at my imaginary stage, produced by my CLXs.

Defending which speaker sounds better, its like the food that you like. You find good chefs and cooking the same meat or sea food, in so many different ways, adding different flavors for your taste. What its important, is to be enjoying the meal, and feel satisfaction.

All of you know the facts that having a driver with a very low mass, will response as fast as the signal is applied, moving at the speed of that signal, and when the signal is not applied, will stop moving (not changing any pressure at the air that its moving). The heart of ML stat panel is that fast, because its diaphragm weights less than the air that it moves. Another point that I do like from them, its their coherence. Having no crossover over 350 Hz, the are no phase shift. Just pure clear musical instruments and voices. Also, I do like to listen the musician at the stage, and not too near me. I do not like to listen details that are not at the distance that my imaginary stage is. Its just a matter of liking.

Another point that I would like to share, is that when the CLXs was presented for the first time, was at the Munich Audio Show. Two finalists were at the end, the Focal JMLabs Grand Utopia ( $180.000.00 pair) and the CLXs. For the first time at the show, the 11 judges unanimously voted the CLXs as the best sound of the show. This tells me that the judges and my ears like the CLXs a lot.

I do believe that I could live with any of the speakers that are made today.
Regards from Costa Rica!
 
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Big Dog RJ

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G’day fellow audiophiles, music specialists and enthusiasts;

We’re having some outstanding weather since Dec 2015 and into the New Year, we were at nearly 43C at one point and then dropped to 14C in a day.
This reminded me of some fascinating systems that I experienced over the break, and during our long weekends. Reproduction capable of exceeding the norms in frequency spectrum, sudden acceleration with speed and finesse, and the softness of moments that captivates your attention.
I also visited the vintage collection chap on several occasions and low & behold, finally saw a few items through the door. His Wilson's were finally fixed, the next owner in line opted to fix the burnt out caps caused by the lightning attack nearly 5 years ago… Vintage B&W’s, JBL’s and Martin Logan’s and Luxman amps/receivers were also parted with. However, even though many of the gear was gone, the rooms still seemed cluttered.

We both visited a few dealers as well, and disagreed a lot but most of our end conclusions were pretty well matched. Therefore, I thought I’d take the liberty of outlining the experience.

System 1: Stradivari, McIntosh amplification (MC275 monoblocks), and C2500 Pre with Mc transport & Dac and Michell Engineering Gyrodec with ARC phono stage.

System 2: Magnepan MG20.7, McIntosh MC452, C1100 Pre, similar Mc Dacs and transport compared to system 1, and Rega RP10 with Rega top of the line phono stage.

System 3: (had to visit my Quad/CJ bud): Quad ESL 2912, C-J ARTsa, ET5, Weiss Dac, McCormack Transport, Naim music server/pre, and a classic Linn TT with a c-j phono stage.

Power cords, cables and interconnects were nearly similar in all three systems. From Nordost, DH Labs to Audio Quest, plus a few QX4 units, QBase8 units with Transparent audio & Thor conditioners. I really didn’t pay much attention to the accessories. After first listening to system 1 & 3 over a period of two weeks, I thought I had it all figured out, until I seriously listened to system 2. Wow! those Maggies just do something with air movement, and when driven properly they really take off!

I cannot claim that one sound was overall better than the other, in fact I thought the Quad system was marvellous since I relatively have the same config. However, what I learnt is that there is no “better or best system.” Each system had its own signature sound even though two systems had the same amplification from the same brand.

As usual the Quad system with the Linn TT was very relaxing and had that warm expansive soundstage but with the Naim Dac/pre it had a greater kick with more clarity. The Stradivari system was also outstanding in its own special way, driven with the MC275 mono’s & C2500 pre, there was some awesome synergy going on with Gyrodec that I really enjoyed and could have easily owned for a lifetime!

The Maggie system with that awesome MC452 and the new C1100 pre was just a superb combination driving the MG20.7 to full effect. Listening to Miles Davis (My King of Blue) & Cassandra Wilson (New Moon Daughter) two of my all-time favourite albums, the presentation was beyond what I expected. I have heard the MG20.7 with other amplification and thought that was pretty good, especially with big solid state amps from Pass Labs, and Vitus Audio, which are all top notch gear sound wise. However, that C1100 mated with the MC452 creates a very realistic reproduction of your favorite recordings, it is nearly live! The Mc dacs were quite superb as well for the money but it was that Rega RP10 that made a massive difference.

Since one of my Quads has gone for a fix, I have been spending more time with the maggie system. Would I want to have it, of course! Would I actually purchase it, not sure because for what it’s worth I am sure after a few years even this will be outdone within the same price category.

In conclusion, for the moment this would be my reference system just to experience the absolute sound in its true form. Even for a relaxing evening and well into the wee hours of the morning, I could live very happily ever after, and with that we both agreed and had another beer!

So there it is folks, different systems in different flavours/colours. Superb soundstage and depth in all three, the maggies took those highs to another level. Unlike the previous maggies I’ve owned the highs were not too bright at all thanks to the control of the C1100 pre. Even though the Quad system was driven with c-j amplification costing comparatively more than the Mc gear, the maggie system had that extra edge of “realism with a sense of closeness” if that makes sense. The performance seemed closer than ever, and I do get this from the other systems as well but with a very slightly less factor. I did enjoy the ARTsa and ET5 very much but for that matter I get an equally superb soundstage from my existing Classic 60se with the ACT2 series 2. Therefore, to me the extra spend didn’t make sense. I think at present, my system has reached its full potential which gives me around 99% satisfaction. There really is no point pondering about that 1%...

The maggie system is just different, and delivers everything so differently it is hard to pinpoint any flaws in the other systems because there aren’t any, they all just sound different. So for those looking for the ultimate out there, I don’t think it exists, I would rather enjoy what I currently have and learn from what others have achieved, and enjoy along with them. If that’s not enough then perhaps it’s time to design and build your own.

Cheers to those who have SF’s, Maggies and Stats, with good digital front ends, solid state or tube amplification and superb-value phono stages/TT’s, enjoy to the fullest! I sincerely think you’ve achieved that wonderful sound in any case; Now just sit back and enjoy the music.
Cheers RJ
 

Gregadd

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Hi Don. Your Maggie's will not die. They will outlive you. Although they are stored away I have a pair of MG 1 since '77.
 

DonH50

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Maybe, but more likely due to my misspent youth leading to problems as I age, than because the Maggies last forever... :) My MG-I's were from 1978 but I sold them when I got my MG-IIIa's. I had repaired the MG-I's a couple of times due to adhesive issues.

Maggies die for several reasons:
  1. Blown ribbon tweeters -- not a true death as new ribbons are fairly easy to install and readily available from Magnepan;
  2. Overpowering them and physically separating (melting) the wires (this is very rare IME);
  3. Separation of the wires from the panels (dreaded "death rattle", buzzing) -- panels can be reglued at home or by Magnepan;
  4. Deterioration of the panels themselves (get brittle, adhesive dries out, rips and tears in panel membranes, also happens to ESLs) -- see above;
  5. Degradation of magnets (reduced field strength; "permanent" magnets really aren't though can live a long time; immersing in strong electric fields shortens their life);
  6. Physical damage, usually accidental (ball, foot, arm punches panel, cat claws membrane to shreds (that was a fun repair), etc.); or,
  7. Other (whatever I haven't thought of, probably lots of things).

Panels do not like very dry climate nor sunlight. Of course, you have to watch arcing in ESLs so too humid is not the best either... The good news is they, like most things we use, are usually happy (environmentally) when we are.

Magnepan's support is really good and they will refurbish my nearly 30 year old (1988) panels for nominal cost. So, it is really more a decision whether to upgrade to newer technology, or in my case change technologies to scratch my ESL itch. I have had both in my system at times, though never owned ESLs, and have heard many more. Maggies and ESLs have both suffered from how the image shifts as you transition across drivers, with Maggies usually winning for me mainly because the crossover from panel to woofer is set pretty high on most ESLs I have heard (whether hybrid or crossing over to an external sub). Both have gotten better, natch.

Given the state of my 401(k), I am in no hurry to upgrade, plus expect a massive tax bill soon (work bonus was larger than expected, time to pay the piper).

Aside: Gregg, do you own those big ML's in your avatar now?
 

Gregadd

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I have not even heard them. It is blasphemy for me to say this. $80k would be more than enough to assemble my dream system. You see given the music I like a SOTA system would just nag me. Source seems to be dumbing down. Don't get me wrong I applaud those who pursue SOTA. I know it is expensive. It must be extremely frustrating just owning a few recordings that allow you to enjoy their efforts. I went through that with the CLS.


.But if I had hit the power ball lottery I would assembled a system you guys could envy.

My niece and nephew were making the same complaint about their bonus.
 

DonH50

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Gotcha', thanks. As those of you who know me know, my plebian system and ears of clay are unfit for WBF; I snuck in by throwing out a technical bone now and then. Which usually just gets me in trouble... ;)

The state of recordings today is hideous IME/IMO. I have bought far too many CDs in the past few years that sound like they were remastered by a teenager in his car. That said, there are some extremely good recordings, they just tend to be harder to identify and find, and are often pricey when you do find one. I really like all the lists of great recordings that are splattered around WBF.

I have to keep reminding myself the bonus was great and adds to the bottom line even if 50% of it goes to taxes. I do get tired of hearing how I owe people and didn't earn it after thirty-plus years of workweeks averaging 50 ~ 60 hours to get where I am (a tiny fraction of the CEO salaries in the news) but that's another thread.

I really, really want to drive a couple of hours north and meet Roger Sanders (again) and Angela but frankly am too afraid of what would be in the back of the car on the way home! :) It is also depressing that no dealers seem to display, or even stock, the Magnepan 20's any more. Granted the 3.x's are more than enough in my room, but...

I have lowered my sights; my next big purchase is going to be a quad trumpet case, assuming work eases up enough that I have time to practice!
 
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Gregadd

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I met Roger at RMAF a few years back. He treated me like a high roller. Nice guy. Roger sales cables. $20k would buy his speakers amp and good dac. If you are into tubes, vinyl and cable you could run that to $30k.
As for the sweet spot most of us do critical listening alone. You can let your significant other sit slightly of axis. They will be asleep soon anyway.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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Monument, CO
Last time I met Roger was ages ago; I was a kid and he was most gracious (though does not shy from expressing himself!) One of the few big names I remember well.

I was looking at the new 10d's, includes one of his amps, and using my Emotiva XPA-2 on the panels. Figured I'd see if I could save shipping by driving up there, maybe get a deal on a second amp, though that will put the cheap engineer at odds with the audiophile in me. One drawback for me is that I'll have to pay sales tax, but at least I live out in the county where it's a little lower (4% or something like that). No plans to change the rest, though I keep toying with setting up my old TT again (Magnepan arm , not many of those around!)

No problem with sweet spot, usually just me, and the room is highly-treated so the sweet spot is bigger than usual for panel speakers.

Third or fourth year in a row I was all set to attend RMAF and something intervened. Maybe this year...
 

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