Martin Logan 11a suitable power amp

[dctom]

Hi, am thinking of getting a pair of Martin Logan 11a speakers, I am moving and need to downsize. I would need a suitable power amp, not sure if valve or solid state works best with them, also something sensibly priced in the UK, ie; 4-6k gbp.
Would be grateful for any experience members have had with ML ESLs.

 

[bonzo75]

Knowing your room it probably won't work well. Best to get vintage tannoys in that room your cost of electronics will also be cheaper

 

[Argonaut]

Hi, am thinking of getting a pair of Martin Logan 11a speakers, I am moving and need to downsize. I would need a suitable power amp, not sure if valve or solid state works best with them, also something sensibly priced in the UK, ie; 4-6k gbp.
Would be grateful for any experience members have had with ML ESLs.

Tom, Perhaps a little more information regarding your circumstances and personal predilections might help folks to make a/few suggestion, such as...
Vintage or modern manufacture, if the latter pre owned or new, any real preference as to valve or SS , associated equipment , size and dimensions of your new room.

 

[Gregadd]

It is a very daunting issue. From its inception ML struggled with the issue. Should they be technically correct or musically transparent? They choose the former and went with Krell. A pleasing but boring sound. Then came the magic of VTL. You get musicality and bass.
I OTOH went hybris. My choice would be the Moscode 402au.

 

[Hear Here]

Tom - I bought a pair of 13As a couple of years ago and regretted it. I read good reviews and heard them at a UK showroom, but in my own home they sounded far less good than the 17 year old Avantgarde Unos speakers the MLs were bought to replace. They are very room sensitive so ESSENTIAL to arrange a home trial first. I lost a ton of cash because MLs are grossly over-priced in the UK and the used market is poor. My £17K as new less than 12 month old speakers eventually sold for less than £10K - less than new 11As.

I even bought the amp that the Martin Logan Owners' forum guys seem to rate very highly, Sanders Magtech, but even that amp (specifically designed to power electrostatics) and Anthem room correction left the MLs some considerable way behind my ancient Unos sound wise. Not just my opinion but ALL visitors felt the same including one who owns Quad 2905s. If you can live with the barn door appearance of the Quad (I can't in my room) and are determined to go electrostatic, get the Quad 2912 instead. I has a pair of modded 2905s (to 2912 spec) and they sounded much better than I was expecting and bass was very much fuller and deeper than I thought possible. And at £8K new they are less expensive than 11As. Several used ones on the UK market for little more than half that price. PM me for more info by all means. Peter

PS - I should say that the MLs would sound great in ideal conditions if you can offer them this. I couldn't because of my room dimensions and shape.

 

[twitch]

what size room will they inhabit ? will you have enough space to bring them 4-6 feet from the from wall ?

as for amplification and your budget would you consider used ?

 

[Gregadd]

Hear Here,is it not time to "get over it?"

 

[Hear Here]

Hear Here,is it not time to "get over it?"

Absolutely not. I personally have got over it (though perhaps not my wallet), but if others are thinking of buying ML Master Series speakers, I think they should be aware of the placement requitrements they demand.

Had I read a similar posting to my own before making the £18K purchase of 13As, I'd have greatly appreciated the advice - and saved myself several thousand pounds.

Do you not agree that it's essential that potential buyes try out ML speakers at home before they part with a large dollop of cash?

 

[bonzo75]

I really like ML hybrids, I have already texted dctom (who is dave, not Tom), that he will be wasting his money with an ML hybrid in his room, which has no more than 3 feet behind the speakers, and a rack in between. Absorbers behind the panels will sound yuck. And for someone looking to downsize, ML cost of electronics is relatively higher though an used speaker is not.

 

[Hear Here]

I really like ML hybrids, I have already texted dctom (who is dave, not Tom), that he will be wasting his money with an ML hybrid in his room, which has no more than 3 feet behind the speakers, and a rack in between. Absorbers behind the panels will sound yuck. And for someone looking to downsize, ML cost of electronics is relatively higher though an used speaker is not.

This may be a first - I agree with you that in some rooms MLs are not the best route. If in his case he can only offer the speakers 3 ft of space behind them, this is a little tight. As previously suggested, they should be happy with 4-6 ft. My problem was that I couldn't offer them a nearby wall - only floor-to-ceiling glazing 12 ft behind one and 15 ft behind the other. Sadly, despite the efforts of Anthem room correction, there was nothing to be done other than selling them and keeping the far less fussy (with regard to rear and side walls) Avantgarde horns.

 

[bonzo75]

This may be a first - I agree with you that in some rooms MLs are not the best route. If in his case he can only offer the speakers 3 ft of space behind them, this is a little tight. As previously suggested, they should be happy with 4-6 ft. My problem was that I couldn't offer them a nearby wall - only floor-to-ceiling glazing 12 ft behind one and 15 ft behind the other. Sadly, despite the efforts of Anthem room correction, there was nothing to be done other than selling them and keeping the far less fussy (with regard to rear and side walls) Avantgarde horns.

No it's not a first. I am very careful about ML placement. And even a badly set up ML will sound better than AG duo or uno, sorry, those are just not speakers. If you want to defend your speaker go ahead, but otherwise take a step back and change given that have room for many including at a lesser price

 

[Gregadd]

Absolutely not. I personally have got over it (though perhaps not my wallet), but if others are thinking of buying ML Master Series speakers, I think they should be aware of the placement requitrements they demand.

Had I read a similar posting to my own before making the £18K purchase of 13As, I'd have greatly appreciated the advice - and saved myself several thousand pounds.

Do you not agree that it's essential that potential buyes try out ML speakers at home before they part with a large dollop of cash?

On the contrary. I think your experience is unique. It is akin to some one who had a bad relationship. Then follows the person around trying to poison every new relationship.
I got news for you. The fact that dipoles are room sensitive is hardly a revelation.

 

[Hear Here]

On the contrary. I think your experience is unique. It is akin to some one who had a bad relationship. Then follows the person around trying to poison every new relationship.
I got news for you. The fact that dipoles are room sensitive is hardly a revelation.

We don't know how familiar the OP is to dipole speakers (do you?) so any advice we offer may be appreciated. I'm with Bonzo in warning of possible disappointment, although as you'll see from my original posting here and elsewhere, I accept that MLs may be great in most "normal" rooms if plenty of space behind them is available.

 

[Gregadd]

You have your ow.n thread chronicling your disappointment with Ml.
If you want to start a thread on dipoles and room effects that is fine. Maybe it is just me,but you seem to concentrate on the money you lost. The op was a request for an amplifier match. I recall you had some success with Sanders Magtech. Perhaps that might be a better focus. That is my last comment.

 

[Hear Here]

You have your ow.n thread chronicling your disappointment with Ml.
If you want to start a thread on dipoles and room effects that is fine. Maybe it is just me,but you seem to concentrate on the money you lost. The op was a request for an amplifier match. I recall you had some success with Sanders Magtech. Perhaps that might be a better focus. That is my last comment.

With respect, the OP started with "Hi, am thinking of getting a pair of Martin Logan 11a speakers". He then asked for advice on a suitable amp.

This implies that he hasn't yet bought ML speakers, so my experience is surely a valid contribution - do you not agree?

In my second paragraph (maybe you didn't read it), I said "the Martin Logan Owners' forum guys seem to rate very highly, Sanders Magtech". Do you not agree that this may also be a useful contribution?

The subject of money is something most of us consider when parting with it in large quantities and I was making specific observations about the UK market as the OP is clearly from the UK and looking for an amp within his budget. The fact he has a budget implies that it’s not “money no object” to him – as it wasn’t for me.

The OP is always free to ignore advice or experience anecdotes, but surely he wouldn't bother asking for opinions if he didn't want them - do you not agree?

Thanks anyway - I look forward to our next encounter, but hopefully on a friendlier note. Peter

 

[Gregadd]

We are friends I hope. I hope we do have friendly discourse in the future. Bur not on this issue. I have addressed these points previously. You have the last word.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . he will be wasting his money with an ML hybrid in his room, which has no more than 3 feet behind the speakers, and a rack in between. Absorbers behind the panels will sound yuck. And for someone looking to downsize, ML cost of electronics is relatively higher though an used speaker is not.

I agree with each of these three discrete points. I enjoyed Martin-Logan speakers for 18 years and I think each of these points reflects experience and wisdom about them.

 

[jespera]

I used to own a pair of cls 2z and had them in many locations. The best i got out of them was when i placed them on the long wall of a long room. I did this in two different locations. In this case I could place them quite close to the wall without suffering. As long as they were toed in.
This probably because the rear reflection would be sufficiently delayed not to cause trouble.

As for amps I’d suggest a robust sweet 50-100 transistor watts. The best i personally had on them was the modest copland csa 28 hybrid integrated. I have also heard them sound remarkably good with the musical fidelity a1. A fantastic amp of poor reliability.

Ive heard several big and small valve and transistor amps cry or mumble on them.

Anyways, vintage tannoys moved in and pushed out the martin logans.

 

[Joe Fedenecz]

For what it's worth my Luxman L 509X is a lovely match with my 11a's.

 

[Ron Resnick]

This is likely personal and idiosyncratic, so don't yell at me if you disagree. I have owned Martin-Logan Monolith Is, Monolith IIIs, Ascents, Sequel IIs and Prodigys over a span of 18 years. I have heard the Neolith at least four times.

I have never liked the sound of ML speakers driven by solid-state electronics. This includes Spectral driving Statements at Overture in Delaware.