Master Built-What are Owners Hearing That They Didn't Hear With Other Cables

Folsom

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Notice what was posted earlier, and what the intent was: "The new Ultra Extreme alloy was developed during a contract with CERN to provide a “super conductivity” cable with close-to-zero resistance and/or signal loss"

Yes but without temperatures they're just mixing the typical old alloys or not creating the lowest resistance.
 

microstrip

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Notice what was posted earlier, and what the intent was: "The new Ultra Extreme alloy was developed during a contract with CERN to provide a “super conductivity” cable with close-to-zero resistance and/or signal loss"

This sentence only shows now in the pages of a retailer and in WBF posts. It was debated and explained in WBF - why repeating it and recreating the same drama again and again? :confused:
 

ack

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Folsom

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I've got to hand it to you Bob, such great information - fascinating stuff... a Rutherford wire??? Beautiful!

Use google to convert K (kelvin) they talk about to good old C/F* temps..
 

NorthStar

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I've got to hand it to you Bob, such great information - fascinating stuff... a Rutherford wire??? Beautiful!

Scroll down to the bottom for the 'Rutherford' cable: http://qps.web.cern.ch/qps/download/pdf/Quench_Wilson_1.pdf

<<>> When we have expensive, very, audio cables with impressive promo and literature; it requires all our attention.
Steve mentioned interesting listening comments, Jack and Mike added their touches, own touches about cables...other cables too.
Some of us already questioned some claims, we've read other comments by audiophiles, distributors, audio reviewers.
Even Amir contributed.

I have no bias, no money prejudice; I want to hear everyone, I want to learn, I want to know who is it for and is it truly worth it.
I know who it is for, those supercon wires. The ones with ultra high end sound systems, because it makes no balanced sense to buy $50,000/pair speaker cables in a $10,000/30,000 sound system. Unless...

So it's for a niche, and the ones with lesser expensive systems they can buy their lesser MB audio cable line...Purple, Signature...
I don't doubt for any second the sound improvement they made, because all wires are lossy. The race for lossless cables is on, and it's a luxurious expenditure.
Tomorrow they'll come with a new conductor, taken from the Moon's core.

I don't know, but to make audio cables that use the alloy used in the Large Hadron Collider from the Organisation Européenne pour la recherche nucléaire,
or CERN ("Conseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire"), in a northwest suburb of Geneva on the Franco–Swiss border, (46°14?3?N 6°3?19?E) and with 22 member states; it reads impressive for sure. The timing is right too: June 24, 2016 was the "Wake" project and we've seen pictures of the sky above the LHC...it looked like a portal into another dimension.
And today is the Autumnal Equinox. And after tomorrow we'll learn some new discoveries by NASA about Europa, the sixth-closest moon of Jupiter.
And just recently, hours ago, in Calgary, Canada, a Quantum teleportation was made over a long distance, a first.

I don't put much faith in life's coincidences; I try to remain objective with a doze of human common sense and balanced down-to-earth foundation.
All lies and hocus pocus magic powder and financial money grabbers of false promises by the crooks who prey on our elderly and handicapped people...it's a disease that requires swift transaction. There is a cure for it...it's all of us with a head on their shoulders. We all know the rest of the story.

But yes, I want to hear more about the Master-Built cables; I am highly interested.
I'm here now, alive, I decided to be here; I worked my way through in this world. I'm wide open to learn.
 
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Folsom

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I have a lot of respect for VSA, and so I fully believe the MB's are worth a shot. It really matters not what's in them - could be methane gas from the Dodo bird for all I care - if they sound good then they are good. Just to make that clear.
 

NorthStar

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Sure they sound good; we've read few reviews and comments:

"I recently purchased a complete set of the Von Schweikert Audio Master-Built cables. A four meter set of the VSA Ultimate Reference interconnects (balanced) now connect an ARC REF-3 control amp to a pair of Spectron Musician III Mk2 power amps (with V-cap and Bybee upgrades). VSA Signature biwire speaker cables connect the Spectrons to VSA VR-5 Anniversaries. A pair of the VSA Signature Chords power the Spectrons. A one meter set of the VSA interconnects (also balanced) will connect a new DAC to the REF-3. For the moment, I'm using a basic Sony BluRay player, a BDP-BX2, for digital input through old single-ended interconnects after my long term DAC lost a channel a few weeks ago. I got the VSA cabling all at the same time, receiving them ten days ago. I've used or heard various manufacturers' cables over the last 30 years or more, but this is my first experience with the VSA cables.

Last fall I moved from a house with a listening room of about 14' x 21' to one with a listening room of 20' x 50' to 70' with an arched ceiling of 9' to 10' 9". After moving to the new location, I've had several conversations with Albert regarding the possibility of adding a pair of his subwoofers. My system seemed to lack deep bass impact and extension in the larger space. First, though, I decided to try a set of the VSA cables. I ordered a full set, since Albert and the folks at Delphi Aerospace emphasize that to hear the cables' potential you need to have them throughout the component chain. A no-risk return policy convinced me to try the set.

The interconnects and speaker cables were conditioned at VSA for 300 to 500 hours on a cable cooker. The power cords were not conditioned. I was told that the power cords would reach most of their potential in two weeks or so, but would sound pretty good out of the box.

I installed the speaker cables first. This resulted in improved frequency extremes, speed, and dynamic contrasts. The most noticeable characteristic was a sense of balance and consistency throughout the frequency range. This is one of the things I expected with the high purity 100% copper design. Previous cables I've auditioned that had multiple metal alloy compositions always had dissimilar sonic signatures in various portions of the spectrum.

Next I added the interconnects feeding the Spectrons. This expanded the qualities I heard in the speaker cables. First, the sense of frequency balance and smoothness was increased. By smoothness, I don't mean rolled off or opaque, but a gentleness on the ear, still with fast transients when they occur (in spades) and with more air, not glassy or aggressive. I really noticed the correctness of the presentation after attending an opera on the day after the cables arrived. There's nothing like a live orchestra in an excellent venue and unamplified voices to recalibrate your aural judgment. The interconnects added, or more correctly, allowed more dynamics, micro dynamics, transient detail, and depth to come through. Instruments had more of their correct timbre and much of an upper midrange congestion that I had been living with was eliminated. Keep in mind that the source end of my system is still hobbled with an entry level player and single ended non-VSA interconnects, so this is an incomplete end-to-end evaluation.

The system was sounding much more impressive than before and since I had guests visiting, I didn't want to spend all of our time together in audioland. Since I already had some excellent power cables on the Spectrons (with prices over $1k each), I decided to allow my guests to just enjoy the rest of the weekend.

So, I didn't install the pair of VSA power cords until the following Monday. I was expecting another increment of improvement, if only from the suggested synergy of a full set of VSA cabling. Now, I know we've all read our share of audio hyperbole and purple prose about the component du jour, so I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible. I powered off the Spectrons, but left the source running at moderate volume, so music was playing when I powered up the amps. When I powered up the first Spectron with the VSA power cord in place, I was stunned by the transformation of the sound-- just standing between the speakers. After a minute of listening to the system, it was clear this was a wholly different quality than I've heard at home or at any dealer's setup.

The changes after the addition of the power cables are in three categories.
1) the timbre of instruments is much more accurate. The best description is that the timbres are more focused, what I'd call timbral coherence. The essence of woodwinds, strings, horns, vocals is much more intact whether in solo or in complex orchestral passages. It's not a subtle difference. You hear much more of the characteristic sound of each instrument. I especially notice this on woodwinds-- e.g. clarinets, oboes, etc., though it's evident with other instruments and voices.
2) Bass is more full and deep. I just saved the cost of adding subwoofers. The bass is also more integrated with the rest of the frequency range. The larger stringed instruments, especially the double bass have bowing transient detail now integrated with the weight of deep bass.
3) The image is much more spacious. The difference is like going from a very good movie theater to an IMAX. Yes, it is that much of a jump.

Remembering that I had inserted the power cords last, I tried removing the interconnect cables, leaving the other VSA cables in place. At first, it seemed like only a subtle change, but within a minute it was clear that micro dynamics were impacted and that much of that timbral coherence was compromised. So back in they went.

I want to avoid stressing or flexing the cables since that would affect the crystal structure over time. I purchased several short desktop microphone stands to clamp the cables in place. I use them on the power cables at the outlets and to clamp the speaker cables above the power amps so they approach the amps from the top instead of laying on top of the power cord at the IEC connection. I use a microphone stand with a boom to clamp the speaker cables at the mid/tweeter connection. One note, be sure to use a plastic clamp, not a metal one to avoid interacting with the signal.

A word on cost/benefit. If Spectron offered an upgrade to the amps at the price of the VSA power cords that elevated the amps' performance to a degree equal to what the VSA power cords provided, I'd have been very satisfied with the resulting improvements and counted the price as a bargain. For the record, I know Spectron offers their own power cords, but I haven't tried them. In my system and environment, the improvement also saved the investment in a pair of subwoofers.

I hadn't ordered a power cord for the REF-3, since my experience with trying other power cords didn't provide much improvement with it (others have reported the same result), so I was planning on keeping the very good one I had already installed. After hearing the impact of the power cables on the power amps, I've ordered another of the VSA power cords to try on the REF-3. If it doesn't prove worth the cost, I can always return it.

I haven't made a rigorous comparison of the VSA cables with a range of alternatives, so this isn't intended as a comprehensive review, but as a description of my experience with installing the VSA cables in my system. I've avoided referencing other manufacturer's products as much as possible, since I didn't approach this as a shoot-out. I'd like to hear others' experience with the VSA cables using their components.

Just FYI. I have no business relationship with VSA or any audio manufacturer, dealer, or for that matter any aerospace company."
 

NorthStar

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kernelbob

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NorthStar, that excessively long post that you reference in your #229 post was mine from several years ago. The MasterBuilt cables that I descibed were the Signature series as they are currently identified. As impressive as the Signatures are, the Ultras are a leap beyond that level.

Robert
 

ack

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Leif S

Industry Expert
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www.vonschweikert.com
The page was removed because it is being updated.
 

microstrip

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That's a good thing, though nothing really is ever removed from the web - I just found that page on google's cache

It is why we should never completely delete information, but replace it with new information - when people find it in the cache using search engines, usually they consult the new upgraded page!

I am sure that soon Fernando Dimailig, a music lover and Dimf’s Hi-Fi owner will have a new page about the MasterBuilt cables.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
It is why we should never completely delete information, but replace it with new information - when people find it in the cache using search engines, usually they consult the new upgraded page!

I am sure that soon Fernando Dimailig, a music lover and Dimf’s Hi-Fi owner will have a new page about the MasterBuilt cables.

Dimfer is a member here
 

kernelbob

Well-Known Member
Oct 23, 2011
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NorthStar, that excessively long post that you reference in your #229 post was mine from several years ago. The MasterBuilt cables that I descibed were the Signature series as they are currently identified. As impressive as the Signatures are, the Ultras are a leap beyond that level.

Robert

FYI, in case anyone cares, that long post of mine that NorthStar referenced was from an AudioCircle post on March 29, 2011. So, yes all of the cables described in that post were the MasterBuilt Signature series.

Robert
 

NorthStar

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NorthStar, that excessively long post that you reference in your #229 post was mine from several years ago. The MasterBuilt cables that I descibed were the Signature series as they are currently identified. As impressive as the Signatures are, the Ultras are a leap beyond that level.

Robert

I knew that Bob; I have posted the link before in this thread (the AudioCircle link, from 2011). I just wanted to post your review, and your review only.

EDIT: I thought I did; I just checked the entire thread, and she wasn't there, sorry. Here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93029.0
{Perhaps I accidentally deleted it?}

And couple more:
- http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131250.0
- http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?10720-Ultra-Extreme-interconnects
- http://www.stereotimes.com/cable083011.shtml
 
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NorthStar

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It is why we should never completely delete information, but replace it with new information - when people find it in the cache using search engines, usually they consult the new upgraded page!

I am sure that soon Fernando Dimailig, a music lover and Dimf’s Hi-Fi owner will have a new page about the MasterBuilt cables.

Methinks that when you have a solid audio product, and that it is considerably expensive, what you write in the promotional advertising/literature is as important as the product itself.
Each word is important as the number of each and total sum of dollars the product costs. All have a considerable weight; what you sell, how much it costs, the words used to describe it, ...the full presentation.
______

* In the past we've seen high end audio cable articles being removed because of unshared interest, different view/opinion, business interference, unethical practice, ...all that sort of jazz. I can give examples and links but I won't, because most of us we are already aware of few, and we've seen them, and even if they have been removed because of possible lawsuits we still know how/where to find them.

You make one mistake in this business, and up goes your integrity and reputation. It's very hard to gain it back. Perhaps for some gullible people, and the most forgiving ones, but for smart people like us it's not an easy meal to digest.
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Back to Master-Built cables.
 

microstrip

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(...) You make one mistake in this business, and up goes your integrity and reputation. It's very hard to gain it back. Perhaps for some gullible people, and the most forgiving ones, but for smart people like us it's not an easy meal to digest. (...)

We should not mix marketing claims in high-end with serious "mistakes in this business". In this hobby, most of the time technical claims have no direct and verifiable correlation with sound quality and the technicalities are mainly used to attract consumer attention.

IMHO people wanting to be smart in this hobby should have a strong digestif apparatus. We are loosing our time and energy debating marketing and price and are not profiting from having people who distribute and own this cables in our forum.

I am waiting for the proper moment to ask about the performance of MasterBuilt cables with solid state systems - I see mainly opinions involving tube systems.
And also asking the mandatory technical question - the MB is a low, medium or high capacitance cable? IMHO it is the only relevant technical question about cables!
 

NorthStar

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A Cable History
According to The History of Electric Wires and Cables by R.M. Black, the humble electrical cable boasts impressive origins-in duding the wire driving systems of the ancient Egyptians (machines used to make wire from metals for jewelry making) and the rope weaving techniques of even earlier civilizations. Experiments with wet silk threads and wires to conduct electricity date back to 1730, even before Ben Franklin and his kite.

The real demand for wires and Cables to conduct electric power began in 1871, with the invention of the first dependable dynamo.

The telegraph and telephone swelled demand for efficient methods of transmitting electric current and signals over long distances. In the case of one early telegraph system, wires for each letter of the alphabet were bound together into a single manageable Cable. Paper-coated pitch wrapped each individual wire, insulating it from the others. The whole batch was then wrapped in paper. Some even suggested laying these batches in tubes coated in resin and placing them underground to keep curious young boys away from them.

Today's cables are slightly less arcane. In audio-visual, cables tend to be one or more wires wrapped in insulation and terminated by two metal connectors. Often, shielding as well as insulation wraps the wire(s) of the cable.
You really only need to know about three kinds of cables and a handful of connectors. To find out about them, we've consulted a panel of experts: Oran J. Sands, video engineer and journalist extraordinaire, who currently writes on video topics for Amazing computing and Video Systems Magazine, Carl Cornell, Senior design engineer for Whirlwind Music; Michael Wulf Axelrod, computer engineer and animator; and Ethan Funk, director of engineering for WITR Radio in Rochester, New York.

The Long and Short of It
In any conductor of electricity or electric signals, there are a few different factors that come into play. Note: we'll talk about these in general terms, avoiding most of the numbers and using only two or three formulas. Our apologies in advance to engineers and other formula fans.

Keep in mind that no one really knows why this all works anyway.

"We have all these models and formulas and explanations for this stuff," says Axelrod. "When you get right down to it, they're little better than guesses at why and how this stuff works."

In the case of cables, factors like resistance, capacitance and impedance all play a role. There's also a great many more electrical sources, magnetic sources and broadcast radio frequencies today than there were in the days of paper and pitch insulation. All of these factors can affect a cable's transmission. As a result, shielding is another important variable in audio and video cabling.

Electrons, Voltage and Current
Electrons, and therefore electric charges, move through conductors. If they didn't, the world today would be a very different place. A flow of electrons (a charge) flows from a voltage or signal source (like a battery) through two conductive surfaces (that is, materials that allow electrons to pass through them).

Hook a wire to two ends of a battery and you've got flow. This movement of electrons has many characteristics. The two of interest at the moment are voltage and current. Voltage is like the "pressure" created by the flow of electrons. Current is the rate of the resulting flow.

Resistance is the quality of a material that restricts the free flow of electrons. As a conductor resists the flow of current through it, a small percentage of the energy dissipates.

Metal wires are good conductors and resist little ofthe current that runs through them, though there is some loss. They also have a large surface to volume ratio. This is crucial because, oddly enough, electrons travel over the surface of the wire and not through the middle.

Capacitance is the tendency of a material to store energy and block constant or low-frequency currents. Capacitors filter and store energy, among other things. Different conductors have different resistive and/or capacitive properties. A shielded cable has similar properties to a capacitor, as both consist of two conductors separated by some type of insulator.

Capacitance is a factor in cable design, because it reacts with the impedance in a length of wire to strip away high frequencies. In video, that means a loss of detail; in audio, a loss of clarity. In cables, the lower the capacitance, the better.

Shielding
There's a lot of electrical and magnetic interference in the air these days. Other power sources, appliances, close proximity to radio or TV stations-all these and more can create noise picked up by your cable unless properly shielded.

A shield is another conductive material, normally a metal foil or a wire mesh, that encircles and protects the integrity of your cable. It absorbs outside signals and/or reflects them back to the outside world. It also keeps your signal within your cable. The relationship between the conductor and shield within your cable can increase the Cable's capacitance. Once again, careful design is everything.

Impedance
Audio and video signals are alternating current signals. They're similar to waves, like sine waves. For a wave to pass cleanly across a cable from one component to another, the impedance-or signal opposition-must be equal all the way across. The cable must be rated to carry signal at a certain impedance.

If the impedances do not match between signal source, cable and receiving component, the waves get out of phase and collide with each other. This actually reflects some of the power of the signal back to the source, causing noise and signal loss.

The more reflection, the less clean your signal, ultimately leading to loss of picture or color data. The video signal is a high frequency one, very susceptible to problems with impedance.


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