Master Built-What are Owners Hearing That They Didn't Hear With Other Cables

[fas42]

What I'm saying is that the conventional ways of connecting components in a high performance system are not good enough, IME, to do the job adequately. Hence the ongoing nightmare of finding cables, etc, that do the job well enough so that deficiencies elsewhere aren't audible; and the MB items seems to be one of the first off-the-rack solutions, going by the accounts posted here.

I don't recommend you do anything to damage resale value of your gear, of course - which is one reason I don't delve into modifying pieces of kit which are pricey. A better overall solution needs to be found for people who don't want to, or haven't the skills to modify items in their rig in this manner, lowering their value to another interested user ... and I don't know what that is at the moment. What I do know is that ensuring the the connections throughout a system have the highest integrity is essential for the quality of sound to be of a high order - technically, that is what needs to be done; how one goes about it is another matter ...

 

[fas42]

I will quickly mention an alternative, that works for me: silver paste. I know Steve and others have not had good experiences; but if done with scrupulous care, and treated like a soldered joint then it does work ...

 

[kernelbob]

I will quickly mention an alternative, that works for me: silver paste. I know Steve and others have not had good experiences; but if done with scrupulous care, and treated like a soldered joint then it does work ...

Frank, I've toyed with the idea of silver paste, but have been warned from a variety of sources that it tends to migrate over time and being conductive can lead to short circuits, although I've not used it so I only have others' comments on that. I periodically use Deoxit, both the red cleaner and the gold finishing liquid (a.k.a. ProGoid). Wipe off any excess of the gold finishing liquid.

Robert

 

[fas42]

Frank, I've toyed with the idea of silver paste, but have been warned from a variety of sources that it tends to migrate over time and being conductive can lead to short circuits, although I've not used it so I only have others' comments on that. I periodically use Deoxit, both the red cleaner and the gold finishing liquid (a.k.a. ProGoid). Wipe off any excess of the gold finishing liquid.

Robert

Robert, as I said, how one uses it is key, and overuse would cause problems. It would be easy to think, if something is good, that more of it is better - wrong move! My technique is to scrupulously clean the contact areas, apply only enough paste to very lightly cover the actual metal contact areas - the least amount is best! - and in one move make the connection, and tighten as firmly as possible if that's relevant. Then, do not disturb it !! Fiddling with the connection after it has been treated is a no-no - if this has to happen then consider the connection as contaminated; clean off the paste, and do a new treatment.

The Deoxit, etc route I went through years ago - for me, not good enough; it always degraded, but in a different way from an untreated connection. Silver is the only thing that I'm happy with over a long term.

 

[MadFloyd]

Robert, as I said, how one uses it is key, and overuse would cause problems. It would be easy to think, if something is good, that more of it is better - wrong move! My technique is to scrupulously clean the contact areas, apply only enough paste to very lightly cover the actual metal contact areas - the least amount is best! - and in one move make the connection, and tighten as firmly as possible if that's relevant. Then, do not disturb it !! Fiddling with the connection after it has been treated is a no-no - if this has to happen then consider the connection as contaminated; clean off the paste, and do a new treatment.

The Deoxit, etc route I went through years ago - for me, not good enough; it always degraded, but in a different way from an untreated connection. Silver is the only thing that I'm happy with over a long term.

What connections do you use the silver paste on, Frank?

 

[fas42]

What connections do you use the silver paste on, Frank?

Every connection that I can't solder, or that would be too awkward to do such too. A good example is fuses: the normal arrangement I don't consider good enough, so over the years I have either soldered these in place, or, used silver if I felt that it was too dicky trying the soldering method - the heat from the soldering iron can easily ruin a fuse if not done with extreme care. My first good system, 30 years ago, had every fuse soldered in place ...

As another example, RCA sockets can be over-complicated; far too many separate pieces of metal in the construction - the best specimens have only a single piece of metal for each conductor, which can be soldered to. The complicated ones can be improved by taking them apart, and doing the silver treatment on the pieces where they mate.

 

[AudioEdge]

Just wondering if these are the same as the "MasterBuilt" brand:

http://www.stereotimes.com/cable083011.shtml

Also, can't find who the manufacturer is - the name of the brand is "MasterBuilt" apparently made by Delphi.
But the location of the company, the names of the individuals, etc, etc behind it all seem to be hidden.
Only VSA as the distributor is identified. Does anybody know?
This seems to be unusual - for most other manufacturers - electronics, speakers, cables, it's pretty easy, and well
known who are the principles and where they are located. In the case of Masterbuilt - there seems to be a
dearth of info. Any insights would be appreciated. ( esp before I consider laying out thousands for a product)

 

[Leif S]

Just wondering if these are the same as the "MasterBuilt" brand:

http://www.stereotimes.com/cable083011.shtml

Also, can't find who the manufacturer is - the name of the brand is "MasterBuilt" apparently made by Delphi.
But the location of the company, the names of the individuals, etc, etc behind it all seem to be hidden.
Only VSA as the distributor is identified. Does anybody know?
This seems to be unusual - for most other manufacturers - electronics, speakers, cables, it's pretty easy, and well
known who are the principles and where they are located. In the case of Masterbuilt - there seems to be a
dearth of info. Any insights would be appreciated. ( esp before I consider laying out thousands for a product)

Hello AudioEdge,

Those are the very first prototype cables from when we first met up with the engineers of MasterBuilt. In the very beginning we had MasterBuilt put the Von Scweikert logo on the cables. All the MasterBuilt cables have changed over the last several years implementing better materials. These are not the same cables MasterBuilt manufactures today.

 

[JackD201]

yup not just materials but geometry and gauge too. You can tell the difference between the original VS marked Signatures and the M+Bs by feel alone even if the jackets are the same. The original Signatures are now closer to the Standard if not the same. My current loom is all M+B including the PCs. My badged VSAs went with VR-9s to their new home. The only VSA single run left is now on loan to a friend. These are for SCs by the way.

As far as ICs go the original ICs were actually constructed very differently and were very stiff. Sound was not as good as today's since there was still some constriction. These were sent back after beta testing as I had told Albert that they were good but not really not that different from what I had on hand. The latter prototypes still with the VS badging had the thinner more flexible wire and what feels like added cotton insulation inside the jacket. Can't tell the difference by feel with the latter VS and the current M+B signatures. I can't tell the difference in sonics either as I compared them on the most sensitive part of the chain I can think of, between SUT and phonostage. They are either the same or very close enough.

 

[AudioEdge]

I knew that Bob; I have posted the link before in this thread (the AudioCircle link, from 2011). I just wanted to post your review, and your review only.

EDIT: I thought I did; I just checked the entire thread, and she wasn't there, sorry. Here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93029.0
{Perhaps I accidentally deleted it?}

And couple more:
- http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131250.0
- http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?10720-Ultra-Extreme-interconnects
- http://www.stereotimes.com/cable083011.shtml

Here's another link - this dealing with pricing, and an excerpt following:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140706.0

"Here are the four lines of MasterBuilt cables and the systems they should be paired with.

MasterBuilt Purple Line
The MasterBuilt Purple Line is our highest value line and is manufactured in the US by leaders in the Aerospace Industry utilizing laboratory grown single crystal copper. MasterBuilt Purple Line rates in the top 10% of all high-end audio cables and is recommended for use in systems costing upwards of $25,000.

MasterBuilt Reference Line (Previously known as “Standard”)
MasterBuilt Reference Line is just that, audio reference quality sound reproduction. Manufactured in the US by leaders in the Aerospace Industry, it utilizes laboratory grown single crystal copper. This line rates in the top 5% off all high-end audio cables and is recommended for systems costing upwards of $50,000.

MasterBuilt Signature Line
MasterBuilt Signature Line is above reference grade cables. It’s manufactured in the US by leaders in the Aerospace Industry utilizing laboratory grown single crystal copper. This line rates in the top 2-3% off all high-end audio cables and is recommended for any high-end system regardless of price.

MasterBuilt Ultra Line
Simply put, MasterBuilt Ultra Line is the best of the best and deservedly holds its spot in the top 1% of all high-end audio cables. Manufactured by leaders in the Aerospace Industry utilizing rare and precious alloys only produced here in the US. The MasterBuilt Ultra Line belongs in the world’s finest audio systems.

As you can see, Ultra is exactly that and we’re fortunate to have a full loom system to display at shows. Budget wise, the VR-55s could be paired with the Signature Line. But the truth is that Ultra can make a $200 pair of bookshelf speakers from Best Buy sound amazingly better. I know because we’ve tried it. So when we go to shows, we take the best and it demonstrates what the speakers are capable of.

But the Ultra are not for everyone based strictly on their cost. In fact, it’s a huge investment for us to have a full loom for our trade shows. That said, every product in the MasterBuilt Ultra Line is less expensive meter for meter than the Nordost Odin Line of cables. And they are so much better. "

 

[marty]

Leif,
Can it be that after radio silence on this topic for over 2 weeks, that every possible question about MB cables has been asked and answered?

Unless I missed it, I'd like to address the subject of impedance matching for your interconnect lines of MB cables. As you know, some cable manufacturers use networks to either contour frequency transmission or match impedance to downstream equipment. Regarding the later, MIT and Transparent firmly believe that back EMF can degrade performance unless impedance is carefully controlled and matched to downstream gear. That is also the theory for using 75ohm BMC connectors and accompanying cables as recommended by some manufacturers (i.e. DartZeel); that is, to get the cables "out of the way" (my choice of words, not theirs). Since MB does not use networks or special terminations, I presume MB does not believe that impedance matching is critical to their interconnect performance. I am therefore curious to learn your thoughts as to why your cables would be ideally suited for driving a 10K ohm load just as perfectly as they would a 100K ohm load?

Thanks in advance,
Marty

 

[mullard88]

I installed the MasterBuilt signature power cords on the Stax amps two days ago. My initial impressions are: 1) The sweet spot seems to have expanded to anywhere in the room as long as I was behind the listening chair and between the speakers. I can wander about within the area and not lose any detail(s). 2) I lost the bass rumble and a significant amount of bass air. 3). What was lost are more than made up by the increase in the quality and amount of details in the rest of the frequency range. Singers' voices are easily intelligible and the characteristics of individual voices are more obvious. 4). The soundstage is deeper and I feel I am hearing into the farther parts of the soundstage.

 

[mullard88]

I just reread my last post and just to clarify, in number 2, I meant the bass male vocalist rumbling texture.

 

[kernelbob]

Regarding your MasterBuilt Signature power cord installation. When I installed my first pair on my power amps, I was amazed at the improvement over Shunyata Pythons. One of the most improved areas was in the power, articulation, and extension of the bass.

As well as they performed fresh out of the box, they really started to improve after the first several days to a week and took about a month to reach their full bloom and technicolor illumination.

I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of their performance over the next several weeks.

Best,
Robert

 

[Steve Williams]

Regarding your MasterBuilt Signature power cord installation. When I installed my first pair on my power amps, I was amazed at the improvement over Shunyata Pythons. One of the most improved areas was in the power, articulation, and extension of the bass.

As well as they performed fresh out of the box, they really started to improve after the first several days to a week and took about a month to reach their full bloom and technicolor illumination.

I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of their performance over the next several weeks.

Best,
Robert

I've had a pair of MB Ultra PC's in my system now for the past 6 weeks and I agree with Sams imoressions. The amount of detail along with the top and bottom end extension is something I have never heard before. This along with the fact that they are totally neutral make these a must for everyone to audition.

 

[mullard88]

Hi Robert,

I'm listening to a solo piano cd right now. The piano sounds very full bodied, organic with very realistic decays. I don't find any shortage of bass information.
On the same volume setting, this recording sounds louder than before.

Sam

 

[mullard88]

Hi Steve,

May I ask where in your system are you using the ultra PCs?

Sam

 

[kernelbob]

Hi all,

Though I'm "only" using MasterBuilt Signature power cords, I've found that they make the largest impact on analog stages with the most dramatic improvement in poweramps. I'm using four of them on the monoblocks in my biamped system. I also use one on my DAC and used one on my ARC REF-3 preamp to good effect. I replaced that preamp with my Tortuga LDRxB balanced controller/attenuator which is running off of a 12V marine battery, so no power cord needed there.

Regarding piano music via the MB power cords, if I could only demo the MBs with one instrument's recordings, it would be the piano. Coherence, dynamic range, long decay trails, harmonic nuance, detail all are taken to higher levels. Each individual piano's acoustic signature is made more distinct. For example, when you hear a Horowitz recording, you instantly can identify his piano which he insisted was to be shipped to each recording or performance venue.

Steve, have you had the opportunity to compare the MB Ultra with the Signature power cords? Please don't tell me there's a dramatic improvement.

Best,
Robert

 

[JackD201]

In my case I'm using Signatures on everything except my turntable power supply and 4 subwoofers. They are much too heavy for the subwoofers, two of which have their amplifiers over 5 feet off the ground. When I am using CH precision M1 monos which have a 15A AC input for input and driver stages and a separate 20A AC input for the output stage, I still use Signatures on all. Source and Pre CH sans X1 have dual AC as well. In this case the first AC is only for the onboard computer circuitry's fully independent supplies and the other for audio circuits. I use the stock cord for data and control sections and Signatures for the audio circuits. When X1 DC supplies are used, I use them on the X1s.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi Steve,

May I ask where in your system are you using the ultra PCs?

Sam

Hi all,

Though I'm "only" using MasterBuilt Signature power cords, I've found that they make the largest impact on analog stages with the most dramatic improvement in poweramps. I'm using four of them on the monoblocks in my biamped system. I also use one on my DAC and used one on my ARC REF-3 preamp to good effect. I replaced that preamp with my Tortuga LDRxB balanced controller/attenuator which is running off of a 12V marine battery, so no power cord needed there.

Regarding piano music via the MB power cords, if I could only demo the MBs with one instrument's recordings, it would be the piano. Coherence, dynamic range, long decay trails, harmonic nuance, detail all are taken to higher levels. Each individual piano's acoustic signature is made more distinct. For example, when you hear a Horowitz recording, you instantly can identify his piano which he insisted was to be shipped to each recording or performance venue.

Steve, have you had the opportunity to compare the MB Ultra with the Signature power cords? Please don't tell me there's a dramatic improvement.

Best,
Robert

I have had them on my Lamm ML3 Signature amps and I am simply amazed. I have not compared them to the Signature series. All I know is Leif has informed me that he needs to collect all the cables he left for me as they need to go to shows. I am already having separation anxiety as these cables have brought me so much closer to my sound system. It is so revealing now that I never want to turn it off.
When Jack appropriately termed MB Cables "lifers", I can now honestly say that I know what he means. This MB product line is stable and has not been upgraded or added to in years. IMO they are truly exceptional