Master Built-What are Owners Hearing That They Didn't Hear With Other Cables

[JackD201]

In my case I'm using Signatures on everything except my turntable power supply and 4 subwoofers. They are much too heavy for the subwoofers, two of which have their amplifiers over 5 feet off the ground. When I am using CH precision M1 monos which have a 15A AC input for input and driver stages and a separate 20A AC input for the output stage, I still use Signatures on all. Source and Pre CH sans X1 have dual AC as well. In this case the first AC is only for the onboard computer circuitry's fully independent supplies and the other for audio circuits. I use the stock cord for data and control sections and Signatures for the audio circuits. When X1 DC supplies are used, I use them on the X1s.

Oh, I use a Nordost QB8 to help manage grounding. I use Signatures on that as well. Same goes for my baby Cyclops which feeds my DAC and Transport.

 

[kernelbob]

Hi Jack,

I use desktop microphone stands to elevate my cables and power cords a few inches above the floor. For higher connections, such as the input terminals to my speakers, I use a boom microphone stand behind each speaker. This ensures that there's no stress on the connectors or wire. A tall mic stand and boom can easily reach five feet from the floor and offers complete flexibility in orientation.

By the way, I'm still using my older Shunyata Python power cords on the XS15 subwoofers. While the pair of my Kron monoblocks were out getting modded, I tried connecting the MB Signature power cords to the subs. The improvement was easily apparent with the bass having more harmonic complexity and richness. Letting my practical side have the occasional win, I put the MB power cords back where they belonged before I got too used to the improvement.

Best,
Robert

 

[JackD201]

I would have done the same Robert LOL Well, If I get Ultras then I know where the displaced PCs will go The most expensive time of year is coming up quickly however so self gratification will be on the back burner until maybe Spring.

 

[Steve Williams]

My ultra PC's are supported off the ground with simple cable elevators. I don't find the PC's as rigid as some other brands

 

[Leif S]

The Signatures I believe are a little stiffer and heavier than the Ultra

 

[Steve Williams]

The Signatures I believe are a little stiffer and heavier than the Ultra

Thanks for spoiling me. Nothing will be the same after you take back the loaners.

 

[Holli82]

The Signatures I believe are a little stiffer and heavier than the Ultra

Hey Jack

Sell me your stiff/heavy Signatures when you upgrade to Ultras.

 

[JackD201]

Only if I get to deliver them personally Rodney, it's been too long my friend

 

[Leif S]

Hey Jack

Sell me your stiff/heavy Signatures when you upgrade to Ultras.

Aren't you going to want Ultra's once you get your ULTRA 9's??? lol

 

[mullard88]

Hi Robert,

I'm listening to act 2 of "The Phantom of the Opera" a second time and my observations to this point are:
1). Dynamic contrasts are significantly wider specially on the loud parts. The loud passages are definitely louder than what I am used to but there is no pain or offensiveness in this loudness. It is still very integrated, musical and natural. I do not feel deafened one bit.
2). The soundstage expanded in every direction. It appears that the stage starts from the front of the speakers and extends much further to both the left and right side. Images in the stage are definitely bigger, bigger than life size.
3) information that were not too noticeable before are more prominent.

Sam

 

[Steve Williams]

3) information that were not too noticeable before are more prominent.

For my ears this was the biggest revelation of this cable. There is just so much more information that one wonders WTF is going on here. I am sure that the top and bottom extension contributes but it is almost as if it is a canvas that previously if you looked at it would give you all the information to convey the theme but with these cables it is as if all of the blank unpainted areas of the canvas are all now filled in. Perhaps this also helps to create the deeper and wider soundstage.

Whatever it is these cables for my ears do things that no other cable has done to me. I'll be in my room non stop for the next two days as Leif has told me he needs to collect the cables on loan in 2 days. This is separation anxiety at the fullest

 

[Holli82]

we'll negotiate Leif

 

[Holli82]

Only if I get to deliver them personally Rodney, it's been too long my friend

My 5 star casita awaits you Jack!

 

[marty]

Leif,
Can it be that after radio silence on this topic for over 2 weeks, that every possible question about MB cables has been asked and answered?

Unless I missed it, I'd like to address the subject of impedance matching for your interconnect lines of MB cables. As you know, some cable manufacturers use networks to either contour frequency transmission or match impedance to downstream equipment. Regarding the later, MIT and Transparent firmly believe that back EMF can degrade performance unless impedance is carefully controlled and matched to downstream gear. That is also the theory for using 75ohm BMC connectors and accompanying cables as recommended by some manufacturers (i.e. DartZeel); that is, to get the cables "out of the way" (my choice of words, not theirs). Since MB does not use networks or special terminations, I presume MB does not believe that impedance matching is critical to their interconnect performance. I am therefore curious to learn your thoughts as to why your cables would be ideally suited for driving a 10K ohm load just as perfectly as they would a 100K ohm load?

Thanks in advance,
Marty

Leif,
Still awaiting a reply. Any thoughts?
Marty

 

[Leif S]

Leif,
Still awaiting a reply. Any thoughts?
Marty

Hi Marty,

I was still waiting to hear from MasterBuilt on this but I know they have been extremely busy but I will still post the response when I get it from MB.

I do know that for Digital (signals) Cables, the impedance has to match.
SPDIF cable are 75 ohms and AES/EBU are 100 ohms, etc

For analog signals, such as from CDP, Preamps, and Amps, the impedance are not matched.
So, I don't see how you can use a cable to match (tune between) a pre-amp to an amplifier.
Or from an amplifier to a speaker.

I would think this is more of a question for the manufacturers of electronics that require such a cable since many, if not most do not. If they require this type of cable for protection, then I would use it.

I will post their response though when I get it.

Leif

 

[microstrip]

As some small mistakes are being posted I will point them and add few brief general comments.

DartZeel uses 50 ohm cables, not 75 ohm. They have a special 50 ohm BNC input and output in their units, but also other switchable more common higher impedance inputs such as RCA or XLR.

AES/EBU has an impedance of 110 ohm. Digital cable impedance must match rigorously the output and input impedance of equipment in order to preserve the rising edge of digital signals, otherwise signal reflections in the cable extremities cause distortion that can induce jitter.

At audio frequencies, theoretically impedance matching is not important all, either in speaker or ICs. Typical audio cables have impedances between the hundreds of ohms and a few kilo ohm with a few exceptions, such as the Occos speaker cable - around 4 ohm.

Most of the time electronics use the so called high-impedance mode, using input impedance greater than 10 kohm and outputs are low impedance - so cable matching has not any meaning at all! In order to avoid signal cable bouncing at the cable extremes, the input, output and cable impedances should match. Manufacturers usually implement it using resistors (see picture)

We have some exceptions. The 600 ohm mode used by professional equipment, also shows in some consumer audio companies, such as Rowland Research or Atmasphere. These modes are however switchable to allow the use of their equipment with normal (consumer) electronics. Some manufacturers claim that the use of this low impedance mode minimizes the effect of signal cables - but many audiophiles disagree with them on this aspect.

Mogami lists plenty of electrical properties in their IC and speaker cables with great detail. However, as impedance is not critical at all in what they call the high impedance use, they forget about it, although it can be easily calculated from from their data.

 

[JackD201]

Rane, a professional company that usually does live reinforcement, which means they run the longest cable runs, has a paper that actually states that impedance matching is low on the totem poll of requirements. In the case of M-B I believe the biggest criteria were first and foremost, noise rejection and the second low capacitance. Honestly, it's all greek to me. I just know that no other cable I have tried, and I have tried many, have allowed my system sound whole at LOW levels. The others needed more output voltage to open up so to speak. Of course, I have not tried everything so obviously, caveats apply.

 

[Speedskater]

"microstrip' cover the topic very well.
Unbalanced analog interconnects do not use an impedance matched transmission line system (nor do speaker cables for that matter).
Radio Frequency Characteristic Impedance values of common cables are nowhere near their RF impedance.
The only cable exception is the very strange Occos cable.

 

[Folsom]

Is there really only two companies that impedance match their XLR?

After some thought I think I know the secret to MB cables but I'm not spilling any beans.

 

[microstrip]

Is there really only two companies that impedance match their XLR?

Meridian also had it in the end of the 70's - I have owned the 101 preamplifier with either standard (300 ohm ) or matched (75 ohm) output impedance. The main technical problem is that low impedance version draws much more output current, usually increasing distortion, ground plane and power supply effects.