Munich High End 2019

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,952
1,070
113
London

User211

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
1,246
131
63
Hello user211
That is your second visit on our room(2017+2019) that you did not introduce yourself to me.i am starting to think you don't like me:) you know I don't bite.

Anyhow an honest question.how does uncanny sense of wellness(opposite of discomfort?)+ Naturalness (opposite of unnaturalness?)= Coloration?
Except if by coloration you mean all the five carton walls bouncing .
Asking for a friend:)

Thanks anyway for stopping by.it was a crazy last days with people staying after hours ,literally having to push people out of room ,one hour after closing.
Cheers
S
Sure we spoke more than once over the weekend but not much. Were you the one that asked me if I wanted to hear the headphones and I said no not if they are open back because of the ambient noise? You are the distributor, right?

I'm not going to go into detail about the sound but I did really enjoy it.
 
Likes: Alrainbow

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
3,009
303
83
Switzerland
Sure we spoke more than once over the weekend but not much. Were you the one that asked me if I wanted to hear the headphones and I said no not if they are open back because of the ambient noise? You are the distributor, right?

I'm not going to go into detail about the sound but I did really enjoy it.
He’s the manufacturer not a distributor.
 
Nov 4, 2012
38
7
8
Top 3 at Munich - Aries Cerat big system far ahead, Wold von Langa Son with Primary Control and Air Tight second, YG towers with Nagra third.

WE for the first time very good with certain music. Joseph Audio always excellent.

My 2p

I am distributor of Aries Cerat and Wolf von Langa for a reason. Year after year they make music. In difficult rooms.
 
Oct 12, 2011
273
10
18
55
Brooklyn
Tang,

As I am a guest of Silbatone I will leave them out of the discussion. My favorite rooms(that I remember) in no particular order;

Soundsmith - Peter’s rooms always impress me with the ease and musicality. Doesn’t hurt that his music selections are among the best! I am a horn/tube guy so when a SS/small box system impresses I take notice.

CAD/Engstrom/Verity/Bibacord - all digital but to my ears one of the better ones out there. CAD I’m am very familiar with but the others not so much. Will pat attention to them going forward.

Wolf van Lange/Air Tight/Primary Control - a bit closer to my usual wheelhouse. This combo produced a very musical presentation that I wouldn’t mind in my home.

I am sure I missed a few, and there were rooms that I just couldn’t make any impressions because they were too crowded to get in to when I was there. Overall I’d say there are more rooms making good sound than ever before.


For people who are at Munich. Tell us which are the three rooms you find top most impressive in your opinion.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
Nov 19, 2015
1,451
125
63
Hutto TX
ibelieveinhifi.com
Have a few thousand pictures to upload when I get back to the US.

Biggest surprise at the show: Retro washing machine speakers, with a toaster power supply and soap for amps. Don't remember the name of the brand. They played the Star Wars opening theme so immediately they were a BOS contender ;)

Biggest disappointment: You will see in the majority of my photos of the show 95% of rooms that had analog were not even using it. I was so excited to hear the Air Force Zero and stopped in that room several times only so see it either turned off or with a cloth cover over it and digital only. Why bring it at all??!!

Biggest joy: 6 Rooms were using the Top Wing Red Sparrow including Aries Cerat and Raidho/Gamut

Aside from my affiliates like Aries Cerat and Primary Control rooms I liked:

Acapella room at the Hifi Deluxe
Gryphon room (Ethos is an amazing CD player)
Marten/SAT room
Kroma Audio (big room) at the Hifi Deluxe
Bayz audio at the Hifi Deluxe


Notable mentions:

Kharma
Wilson Benesche
Venture Audio
Alsyvox
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,952
1,070
113
London
Tang,

As I am a guest of Silbatone I will leave them out of the discussion. My favorite rooms(that I remember) in no particular order;

Soundsmith - Peter’s rooms always impress me with the ease and musicality. Doesn’t hurt that his music selections are among the best! I am a horn/tube guy so when a SS/small box system impresses I take notice.

CAD/Engstrom/Verity/Bibacord - all digital but to my ears one of the better ones out there. CAD I’m am very familiar with but the others not so much. Will pat attention to them going forward.

Wolf van Lange/Air Tight/Primary Control - a bit closer to my usual wheelhouse. This combo produced a very musical presentation that I wouldn’t mind in my home.

I am sure I missed a few, and there were rooms that I just couldn’t make any impressions because they were too crowded to get in to when I was there. Overall I’d say there are more rooms making good sound than ever before.
Beaur, I spent of Sunday in the WE room, and part of Saturday. If you are a guest of Silbatone you must be a great guy with great music taste. I love chatting there with Schroeder, Schick, JC, etc. Nicest bunch of guys all for natural sound.

I agree with the verity room, and the verity zesto room was the best value system imo, and other Engstrom rooms sounded good too. The Engstrom there was a 300b, in the Kharma room was a 300b class XLS, and in the Goebbel room was a T100 (which Christoph had tried in his Lampi).

I didn't spend much time in the Wolf von Langa this year but do know from last year that the PC-air right-Langa combo was very musical especially for a speaker that size.

I missed the soundsmith room this year but he had indulged me in some compares in his room a couple of years ago
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
396
48
28
Munich
Here is my writeup. It is all in my opinion and to my taste.

Top 3-Systems:

1. Göbel Divin Noblesse with Engström amplification and Wadax Digital or Kronos Analog (A bit round for me). The Engström amps are in the middle between the CH amp and the amp Oliver used when I visited him (tonality, high frequency and punch). The engström amps do not seem to have any drawbacks. We listened loud and they still had the required steam. The CH may have some more punch buy its a bit more edgy uptop (In a good way). The Göbel Speakers do everything right and nothing wrong in my opinion.

2. Alysvox. Huge Soundstage, very quick midbass and bass. On Redbook CD there was no hint of edginess up top. It missed a hint of layering the Göbel did. I also would have wanted to try Vinyl or at least a tube preamp. Ked said it fell apart on his CD and I understand his point. It excelled at big and transparent music. On Keds small classical piece some things that I liked about the system seemed to hide or go away.

3. Tie for third:
Rockport and Vitus. The system consisted of the second smallest Rockport speaker and the new Vitus integrated. It lacked some of the scale and image size the Göbel system has but everything else was very good. I was impressed by the turntable setup. It sounded a lot better than their digital.
And for the money its superb.

CH and Vivid Gia’s
(with CH digital in the system)
They were bi amping the vivids with 2 bridged A1.5 monos per side. I suspect I like CH’s A1.5 better than their M1.1s. They are smoother yet pack the same punch. The combo was very detailed and not trying to etch the sound. The bass of the vivids was a bit weard but the coherency was good.

So my thoughts on other systems:

The Tune Audio Avatons was the first horn I ever heard that did not sound like a horn. Yet it seemed to lack some detail. I can not put my finger on where it came from. Amps or the DAC. I see potential there...

I was rather suprised by a Spectral Wilson paring. Sasha DAW where paired with Spectrals CD player aswell as their SV pre and DMA 280 stereo amp. It the first time I liked a system with Wilson speakers. I found it enjoyable. It was a bit behind the Rockport and Vitus combo in tone but had more contrast and better low level dynamics. Maybe silver cables could fix the tone issues...

Aries Cerat.
I found it rather complicated to judge that system. It stands out from the crowd. It may have a mid bass bump ? room ?(I do not mind) and maybe to tame for me in the high frequency range. The tone was rich but somehow it was not coherent. Their DAC sounded very close to their vinyl setup...
This needs more investigation to make a final judgement.

Greetings
Max
 
Last edited:

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,952
1,070
113
London
Ajay Shirke who bought the SME and Garrard companies is a construction millionaire. He is also the distributor in UK for YG, Nagra, boulder, Siltech, EMT, and crystal. He just does this for fun and is not his main business that's why you hear YG set up with Nagra or boulder at shows even though it does not work with Nagra. In his own shop the burmester wakes up the YG so much more than the Nagra, though loses a bit on tone. At shows it does not work with boulder either but will if set up properly. Dagostino and Vitus or even Luxman will be so much better.
 
May 30, 2010
15,086
477
83
Portugal
(...)
2. Alysvox. Huge Soundstage, very quick midbass and bass. On Redbook CD there was no hint of edginess up top. It missed a hint of layering the Göbel did. I also would have wanted to try Vinyl or at least a tube preamp. Ked said it fell apart on his CD and I understand his point. It excelled at big and transparent music. On Keds small classical piece some things that I liked about the system seemed to hide or go away.
(...)
What was this particular CD recording?
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,952
1,070
113
London
What was this particular CD recording?
Scheherazade living stereo sacd and a Bartoli CD of vivaldi arias.

I don't think it fell apart. Just that it took me many demos to like apogees, I did not like them for a while and I still don't like many implementations. Ditto with analysis and Logans irrespective of what you think of them. Panels are so room and amp dependent I really do not understand how people walk into a hifi show room and say this is the best speaker because it costs 200ish after listening to none of their own recordings. Yes it is big and transparent.

The best recommendation in this case will be that it is good enough to warrant a proper demo by visiting them or their clients and trying different amps in different rooms, instead of passing judgement either way.

Also considering that restored full rangers are available at 18k euro, analysis amphytryon at, I forget, 20? 30? And what the cost of Leonardo was, to justify the price this will have to be something specially superior.

Plus there are now open baffle sensitive and efficient horn like speakers that give planar like stage and transparency with 6 to 20w SETs
 
May 30, 2010
15,086
477
83
Portugal
Scheherazade living stereo sacd and a Bartoli CD of vivaldi arias.

I don't think it fell apart. Just that it took me many demos to like apogees, I did not like them for a while and I still don't like many implementations. Ditto with analysis and Logans irrespective of what you think of them. Panels are so room and amp dependent I really do not understand how people walk into a hifi show room and say this is the best speaker because it costs 200ish after listening to none of their own recordings. Yes it is big and transparent.
(...)
Thanks. People say it is the best in the normal accession of word in high-end - it was what they preferred in the conditions of the show. And I thank them because I enjoy reading their opinions. This is an audio forum, not
a court or an horse race! ;)
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,952
1,070
113
London
Thanks. People say it is the best in the normal accession of word in high-end - it was what they preferred in the conditions of the show. And I thank them because I enjoy reading their opinions. This is an audio forum, not
a court or an horse race! ;)
It was not the best in context of the show either, but it's worth evaluating further
 
Oct 12, 2011
273
10
18
55
Brooklyn
Thanks, It’s nice to have friends in the right places.

other mentions;

The Wilson Benesch TT is an amazing technological tour de force. Had a 10 minute discussion with they guy (can’t remember the name) about how it was conceived. Here’s hoping it sounds as good as the tech is advanced! Hoping some well heeled friends indulge themselves for my benefit. :)

As usual the Thoress room provided another great experience. Reinhard’s gear always shines and the Tedeska cartridges could be worth investigating.

I heard the Devore Reference very early on Thursday and the room was crowded then. If you like his sound these just expand on it and could be literal giant killers if you don’t like massive speakers in your living area.

Beau

Beaur, I spent of Sunday in the WE room, and part of Saturday. If you are a guest of Silbatone you must be a great guy with great music taste. I love chatting there with Schroeder, Schick, JC, etc. Nicest bunch of guys all for natural sound.

I agree with the verity room, and the verity zesto room was the best value system imo, and other Engstrom rooms sounded good too. The Engstrom there was a 300b, in the Kharma room was a 300b class XLS, and in the Goebbel room was a T100 (which Christoph had tried in his Lampi).

I didn't spend much time in the Wolf von Langa this year but do know from last year that the PC-air right-Langa combo was very musical especially for a speaker that size.

I missed the soundsmith room this year but he had indulged me in some compares in his room a couple of years ago
 
Last edited:

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,952
1,070
113
London
I like devores already, though the ones at the show were not in an optimal room. I have investigated thoress a bit. He was high value once but has since increased his pricing, and I prefer some alternatives.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
10,952
1,070
113
London
Interesting that you own the tannoys. Outside of big horns, vintage tannoys and devores are my favorites
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio convertors (DACS), turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing