My 2 channel experiment

[RogerD]

I'm listening to Diana Krall live in Paris right now and the natural bloom is really beautiful. I think because like always I'm surprised by the amount of information that is always revealed by this process, I will go ahead and add the final ground cables to the mono blocks. It seems to me all the improvements are now primarily hall reverberation, mic bloom,etc.. The sound reminds me of the many concerts I have attended at Reno showrooms over the years.

 

[RogerD]

Coming upstairs after a 2 hour warm up of the system....I have reached a definitive final conclusion in MY mind. The main problem with digital is the compression of the audio signal. I don't think analog suffers as badly because digital is a electronically intensive process. If the digital signal is uncompressed by removing all the current hash....it can be down right stunning and maybe as good as the master tape or vinyl master. Could a all digital recording set new standards? Maybe..

I played my old nemesis....Friday night in San Francisco. I listened for 2 hours as the music did it's metamorphosis...uncompressing and blooming into a glorious recording of guitar mastery. I think my system has undergone a profound change and I'm not done yet...almost.

 

[marty]

I hope you're seeing McLaughlin's last US tour this fall/winter (or so he says). I tried to see him somewhere on the tour but my schedule just won't allow it due to other travel commitments. My loss. Without question, one of the best whoever played the instrument.

 

[RogerD]

I hope you're seeing McLaughlin's last US tour this fall/winter (or so he says). I tried to see him somewhere on the tour but my schedule just won't allow it due to other travel commitments. My loss. Without question, one of the best whoever played the instrument.

Hi Marty, I would love to...we shall see. My brother saw this concert in Berkeley..said it was one of the best. A shame that Paco is gone now.

 

[RogerD]

I wish I had kept my original iphone6 recording, the one where Amir said it sounded like shiite. Anyway I think it has gotten a lot better...still has not reached full potential,but better than what I had back in November 2016.

I don't know if this was the original comparison video posted against mine in Oct_Nov 2016 but it's always fun to listen. I understand that audio is a tremendous learning experience and highly personal one at that.

 

[RogerD]

I ordered the last two zero gauge cables this morning,after listening last night, the system had not fully settled in yet,so I decided to add the mono block cables. I expect the system will stablise in about another 150 hours (2 weeks) and fully reproduce whatever information is on the digital disc. Right now the perspective reminds me of live music on live recordings. On studio recordings there is evident the venue quality also. I must say "up close and personal" by far is the major take away when listening,but still on most good classical and jazz the soundstage depth is not out of balance....just more "information'. This will finally conclude the experiment. Thanks to all that have followed. I don't know if it's been beneficial,but at least you should have a good idea on whether this grounding is something you want to try. My way is inexpensive($350),others are not. It most definitely can bring the listener closer to the music...either you like that perspective or you don't.

 

[RogerD]

Probably the best money I have ever spent on audio...the last 2 arrived today and they are installed. Improved the lower frequencies, more mid range presence,and even more focused and the highs and upper mid range finally smoothed out. The sound stage didn't change much,as I played a RR Stravinsky,perfect balance,just more of everything. Glad to put this to bed...sick of grounding!

 

[jkeny]

You have 'official' recognition of your approach from the Audio Precision knowledge base - yes the manufacturer of the analyzer equipment used in many measurements including many which have appeared on this forum.

These grounding techniques apply to doing "optimal measurements" so why wouldn't they also apply to "optimal grounding" for audio devices. What I believe your technique & this recommended approach is achieving is a re-routing of currents (leakage, etc) to the low impedance strapping that is connecting the chassis together. This is routing some of these currents away from their existing return pathway which seems to be interfering with signal.

The recommended measurement technique is called "ground bonding" or "chassis bonding" - see here

Diagram of analyzer in center with grounds radiating out to the switchers.

"Audio Precision strongly recommends connecting the chassis ground of each device directly to the ground of the test instrument via wires having as low an impedance as possible. This technique is often referred to as “ground bonding” or “chassis bonding.”


Diagram of ground from analyzer to first switcher, and then daisy-chaining all the others.

"We do not recommend bus grounding (daisy chaining), where several devices are serially connected to a low-impedance conductor called a “ground bus.” The resistance in each leg of the chain puts the devices at different ground potentials, and is not as effective as star grounding."

This technique is also recommended

Combination Star/Bus

Diagram of grounds radiating from analyzer to four switchers, and then a small jumper from each to another switcher.
When the serial links are very short, the combination star/bus grounding configuration can simplify connections while providing good grounding performance.

Oh, yes & this is what it looks like - note the inclusion of a ground connection point on the back of Audio Precision Equipment - which is not put there just for decoration - it has a role to play in "optimal measurements" - again "optimal audio" would imply the same


Interestingly, our very own member Speedskater is already aware of this based on his post of this AP grounding picture here

And includes this advice further down in the thread

While visiting Audio Precision, you might read:

Sound Advice: AP Knowledge Base
Recommended Test System Grounding

Question:
What kind of grounding is best to use between the various devices in my test system?

AP High Performance Audio Analyzer & Audio Test Instruments : Service & Support

 

[jkeny]

Maybe a new thread should be started on grounding in audio?

 

[RogerD]

You have 'official' recognition of your approach from the Audio Precision knowledge base - yes the manufacturer of the analyzer equipment used in many measurements including many which have appeared on this forum.

These grounding techniques apply to doing "optimal measurements" so why wouldn't they also apply to "optimal grounding" for audio devices. What I believe your technique & this recommended approach is achieving is a re-routing of currents (leakage, etc) to the low impedance strapping that is connecting the chassis together. This is routing some of these currents away from their existing return pathway which seems to be interfering with signal.

The recommended measurement technique is called "ground bonding" or "chassis bonding" - see here



This technique is also recommended


Oh, yes & this is what it looks like - note the inclusion of a ground connection point on the back of Audio Precision Equipment - which is not put there just for decoration - it has a role to play in "optimal measurements" - again "optimal audio" would imply the same
View attachment 34833

Interestingly, our very own member Speedskater is already aware of this based on his post of this AP grounding picture here

And includes this advice further down in the thread

Maybe a new thread should be started on grounding in audio?

Hi John,
Good to see you back. It is appreciated by me that information written about this subject be posted as there are many that have trouble understanding this chassis grounding concept.
I think you should start a thread about how current EMI effects the digital process. My experiment proved to me that digital processing can be improved greatly by such bonding of chassis and the SQ improvements can be profound. Now if such a experiment was done I would surely take a interest in such a topic.
Thanks John....Roger

 

[microstrip]

Maybe a new thread should be started on grounding in audio?

Surely - there is a lot more in real world than star grounding. But IMHO we will have much more questions than answers as soon as we leave the 50/60 Hz.

 

[jkeny]

Hi John,
Good to see you back. It is appreciated by me that information written about this subject be posted as there are many that have trouble understanding this chassis grounding concept.
I think you should start a thread about how current EMI effects the digital process. My experiment proved to me that digital processing can be improved greatly by such bonding of chassis and the SQ improvements can be profound. Now if such a experiment was done I would surely take a interest in such a topic.
Thanks John....Roger

Yes, Roger, I've started a thread which you may wish to contribute to?
Just in reference to the pic above - I have to say that anybody who makes this statement "There is no chassis on an insulated SMPS enclosure so there is no way to connect anything to it." really doesn't understand the principle behind this!

 

[RogerD]

I installed the final ground straps on 7/28, so I have about 300+ hours on the system since the total reset of the NBS cables. Some final thoughts:

This extreme grounding has had a many magnitude improvement in clarity,musicality,and resolution. This process is very tedious and time consuming unless you go all in from the beginning. The effect on LF is dramatic and the increase in jump factor alone is worth all my trouble. I thought the volume could increase permanently,but this is not the case only the dynamics increase. I continue to observe that this process effects the IC's and transformers in the system as everything becomes dead quiet and that has been one of the ways for me to tell when the system has been restored.

Moving on to my horn based system now. When that is further a long I will start a new system page.

 

[RogerD]

I thought I would post a photo of my Studer C37 USA model 60hz that was imported by Gotham Audio in the early 1960's and this machine was owned by RCA and was from Webster Hall in NYC. It will be a happy day when I receive it from it's expert restoration. The C37 tech that did Walter Sear's upgrades at Sear Sound is performing the work.

The C37 even has the original Gotham Audio Corp sticker on it.

 

[RogerD]

Congrats to my friend who picked up a rare pair of ParAcas satellite speakers. I think they will sound fine when they are restored.

After 30+ days I knew the system was ready to come up finally.

The system will continue to gain clarity and shed a halo of hash in the upper treble. The bass will continue to gain nuance and concussive power. Everything will have increased power and weight. Nothing But Signal NBS

Update

Never seems to amaze me how this can change with a cycle once the grounding takes hold. The system opened up several magnitudes. It shows me that it always can get better,but how much...
sounds so different....will it change from here? Though the transformation has even surprised me.

 

[RogerD]

I went down to the local store and picked up some cd's mostly analogs. One was a Mercury Living Presence that is new to me and it is fabulous . Recorded on Robert Fine's custom 3 channel Ampex and it is exceptional. The title is "Music for quiet listening",which the first cut is anything but. Very dynamic with jump factor +++
At least on this recording I had to adjust the volume level down twice. The analog digital conversion is about as good as it gets as it seems everything that the 3 channel telefunken microphones picked up has been recovered in this recording.

 

[RogerD]

I knew I loved this album for another reason than the great Bill Evans. This set was recorded at Reeves Sound in NYC. Hazard Reeves is was a giant in recording during the '40's and beyond. Reeves worked with with Robert Fine in the NYC studio.

Just a marvelous recording and after listening to Bill's piano ring and the cymbals splash,I ask myself what's changed....

 

[LL21]

Great album! also have the XRCD version! Have quite a few Bill Evans remasters, XRCDs, Japanese CDs, etc. Good to know about this one...enjoy!

 

[RogerD]

I just knew I had to have this album and compare the horns with the Dyns and 4500 watts. Can't wait to get the horn system playing.

 

[RogerD]

Great album! also have the XRCD version! Have quite a few Bill Evans remasters, XRCDs, Japanese CDs, etc. Good to know about this one...enjoy!

Hi Lloyd....it's a good one,beautiful.