Nagra HD Amps

[howiebrou]

Does anyone have experience with the Nagra HD mono blocks? To me they seem mismatched in price with the HD preamp and HD Dac. I don't mean it is cheap by any means (!) but it seems that most players with preamps in the price range of the Nagra preamp ($65k) seem to have mono blocks of a much higher price e.g CH Precision, Dartzeel, Vitus, Goldmund, Gryphon, Constellation to but name a few. I could be interested in the Nagra HD preamp but do the HD amps ($65k) do it justice or is there something bigger coming along?

 

[Cellindo]

Hi Howiebrou,

Except Boulder, Kondo, Constellation it is pretty rare to see a preamp that much expensive as the NAGRA HD !!! However, it is an exceptional beast; a friend of mine got one last year and also at Munich 2018 the HD preamp did very well.

The HD Amp's are not universal (at least to my opinion); fantastic on a reasonably complex speaker load (like recent Wilson, Verity, Rockport), they will also struggle a bit on the most difficult ones. For example I don't like the HD Amp's on YG speakers; a common combination nonetheless...
I guess the much higher price mono blocks from competition (CH Precision, Dartzeel, Vitus, Goldmund, Gryphon, Constellation, D'Agostino) are probably more capable of driving ANY kind of load. That makes a difference for someone who looks for universality.

So, depending on your speakers a full NAGRA HD Combo could be a real smart decision, pricing wise, compared to other brands.

PS: my friend ended-up with a Nagra HD preamp and a D'Ag stereo amp to drive his YG.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Howiebrou,

Except Boulder, Kondo, Constellation it is pretty rare to see a preamp that much expensive as the NAGRA HD !!! However, it is an exceptional beast; a friend of mine got one last year and also at Munich 2018 the HD preamp did very well.

The HD Amp's are not universal (at least to my opinion); fantastic on a reasonably complex speaker load (like recent Wilson, Verity, Rockport), they will also struggle a bit on the most difficult ones. For example I don't like the HD Amp's on YG speakers; a common combination nonetheless...
I guess the much higher price mono blocks from competition (CH Precision, Dartzeel, Vitus, Goldmund, Gryphon, Constellation, D'Agostino) are probably more capable of driving ANY kind of load. That makes a difference for someone who looks for universality.

So, depending on your speakers a full NAGRA HD Combo could be a real smart decision, pricing wise, compared to other brands.

PS: my friend ended-up with a Nagra HD preamp and a D'Ag stereo amp to drive his YG.

Wholeheartedly agree. One of the reasons for the common Nagra YG combo at least in EU is that the owner of audio lounge in London, who is also the owner is SME and Garrard, distributes Nagra and YG. Verity is relatively easier to drive. The YG set up I heard was also Nagra pre, but it had a Luxman m900u power, and while I like Luxman, I have no doubt that dagostino is better

 

[asiufy]

Let me just offer a dissenting voice. I've heard YG with many of the amps mentioned here, and the HD amps were always among the best with them. That little booth with Sonja 1.3 and the HD amps (and SME turntable) a few years ago in Munich had no business being that good. It was best of show contender, in a tiny booth on the main floor, and it was exceptional.
Nagra has chosen YG to show their product, and vice-versa, simple as that. The dealer actually might've benefitted from the brands' own cooperation, not the other way around.

 

[microstrip]

Nagra HD have been technically reviewed by Paul Miller in Hifi- News and there is nothing that could support that it could fear complex loads - it can deliver more than 1.5 kW peak in 1 ohm loads!

I have considered these monoblocks sometime ago, the main thing that put me down was the price of the matching preamplifier, almost the double of the competition.

 

[howiebrou]

Nagra HD have been technically reviewed by Paul Miller in Hifi- News and there is nothing that could support that it could fear complex loads - it can deliver more than 1.5 kW peak in 1 ohm loads!

I have considered these monoblocks sometime ago, the main thing that put me down was the price of the matching preamplifier, almost the double of the competition.

And there is the conundrum. Is the Nagra HD preamp overpriced or is the HD amp underpriced? In other words if you are looking for a Ne Plus Ultra preamp/amp combo, does the HD amp qualify or do you need to pair the HD preamp with something else?

I tend to prefer the same company for preamp and power amp. I think synergy is assumed if they are made together but you need careful matching otherwise.

Is the HD amp in the same league as the top of the line of other brands or am i just wondering about this solely because they are cheaper??

 

[microstrip]

And there is the condundrum. Is the Nagra HD preamp overpriced or is the HD amp underpriced? In other words if you are looking for a Ne Plus Ultra preamp/amp combo, does the HD amp qualify or do you need to pair the HD preamp with something else?

I tend to prefer the same company for preamp and power amp. I think synergy is assumed if they are made together but you need careful matching otherwise.

Is the HD amp in the same league as the top of the line of other brands or am i just wondering about this solely because they are cheaper??

Good questions, the answer in the top quality high price zone is always extremely subjective .

In my case it was extremely easy as I could not listen to the Nagra's in the very good conditions I could listen the top competition - my system or the Wilson distributor show room. The HD preamplfier is very recent and we lack information on it, and I have a strong bias from previous experiences with the brand - I have owned and enjoyed a complete Nagra system many years ago: the CDP, the PLP and the VPA monoblocks.

IMHO there is no such thing as equal opportunity for every piece of equipment in the high-end - there are many constraints, the more important one being our available time, that affect our choices.

Anyway we have people who own this combo in WBF - their direct opinion will be valuable in these issues.

Again IMHO sometimes Nagra gets impaired in demos by the fact they manufacture DACs and demo using them - audiophiles do not expect DAC manufacturers to design great amplifiers!

 

[bonzo75]

I have heard Nagra in multiple combinations comparing individually each of the dac, pre, and power. The only value there is in the pre. The amps were always compared on speakers like YG and focal never on an easy speaker.

 

[howiebrou]

I have heard Nagra in multiple combinations comparing individually each of the dac, pre, and power. The only value there is in the pre. The amps were always compared on speakers like YG and focal never on an easy speaker.

Can you tell me what combo of Nagra HD pre + power amp that you have you heard that works well?

 

[bonzo75]

Can you tell me what combo of Nagra HD pre + power amp that you have you heard that works well?

As mentioned to Cellindo above, a Nagra pre plus Luxman power driving YG Hailey. He heard Nagra pre plus dagostino driving the YG.

 

[SuperDave]

Hi Howie,
I can't compare to some of the more expensive competition like Gryphon, Constellation, Dartz, and Boulder. I haven't spent enough time with any of them to understand their capabilities. The Rockport Lyra and Nagra HD are what I'm going to hear soon. My Nagra gear is staying awhile but my dac needs to go. I'll look into the Nagra HD Dac X when some more information becomes available.

Dave

 

[howiebrou]

Hi Howie,
I can't compare to some of the more expensive competition like Gryphon, Constellation, Dartz, and Boulder. I haven't spent enough time with any of them to understand their capabilities. The Rockport Lyra and Nagra HD are what I'm going to hear soon. My Nagra gear is staying awhile but my dac needs to go. I'll look into the Nagra HD Dac X when some more information becomes available.

Dave

Love the Rockport Cygnuses so the Lyras should be great. By dac do you mean your Esoteric? The Nagra HD Dac X would look great with your HD Pre... Please let us know how your HD amps work with the Lyras. I would loooove to see pictures too!

howie

 

[KeithR]

not to fault Howie, but his OP sums up the problem within our hobby. when 65k isn't considered expensive enough just because some others (with terrible resale I might add) are much more expensive.

 

[bonzo75]

Audio lounge use the Siltech preamps for demo when they also have Nagra

 

[SuperDave]

Love the Rockport Cygnuses so the Lyras should be great. By dac do you mean your Esoteric? The Nagra HD Dac X would look great with your HD Pre... Please let us know how your HD amps work with the Lyras. I would loooove to see pictures too!

howie

I have had the Esoteric for a few years now. I got it when I had older equipment and speakers and as good as it is, it's the weak link now. I'm considering MSB(upgradable) but now that the HD Dac X is out, I cannot ignore the possible synergy with an all Nagra setup and saving myself from buying a select ii. I agree with Keith as well, it all feels overpriced. I feel foolish sometimes but here I am.

Dave

 

[howiebrou]

not to fault Howie, but his OP sums up the problem within our hobby. when 65k isn't considered expensive enough just because some others (with terrible resale I might add) are much more expensive.

In my defence i did qualify i was not saying it was cheap (!) 65k is waaay more than i would ever pay for an amp i think....

 

[howiebrou]

I have had the Esoteric for a few years now. I got it when I had older equipment and speakers and as good as it is, it's the weak link now. I'm considering MSB(upgradable) but now that the HD Dac X is out, I cannot ignore the possible synergy with an all Nagra setup and saving myself from buying a select ii. I agree with Keith as well, it all feels overpriced. I feel foolish sometimes but here I am.

Dave

I was never a fan of the Esoteric sound, just their build quality etc. There are loads of great dacs out there but i agree the HD Dac X would go very well.

 

[Cellindo]

Hi SuperDave,

Having the same RP Avior as your’s, you must be in Heaven with the Nagra HD preamp and mono’s. The Avior are a benign load for any amp. When I owned an Accuphase A65, I never exceeded 25W on the meters (on a moderately sized room).

For a DAC upgrade my absolute choice would be either Nagra or CH Precision also. Next good options; dCS or MSB or TotalDAC. JMF Audio DAC is top of the league too, but possibly complex to obtain in USA.

 

[SuperDave]

Hi SuperDave,

Having the same RP Avior as your’s, you must be in Heaven with the Nagra HD preamp and mono’s. The Avior are a benign load for any amp. When I owned an Accuphase A65, I never exceeded 25W on the meters (on a moderately sized room).

For a DAC upgrade my absolute choice would be either Nagra or CH Precision also. Next good options; dCS or MSB or TotalDAC. JMF Audio DAC is top of the league too, but possibly complex to obtain in USA.

Cellindo,
In my relatively small room, the Aviors are a good match. RP and Nagra IME have great synergy and I know there is more left on the table when I replace the Esoteric dac with one of the above mentioned. I'm trying to keep the boxes to a minimum, so the Nagra Dac X looks good and I'm demoing the Select II this summer. The HD amps rarely go past 15-20 watts and provide very engaging sound. I never get bored and the HD pre presents music in such an unmechanical and effortless way that was noticeable the first time I heard it.

Dave

 

[Cellindo]

Cellindo,
In my relatively small room, the Aviors are a good match. RP and Nagra IME have great synergy and I know there is more left on the table when I replace the Esoteric dac with one of the above mentioned. I'm trying to keep the boxes to a minimum, so the Nagra Dac X looks good and I'm demoing the Select II this summer. The HD amps rarely go past 15-20 watts and provide very engaging sound. I never get bored and the HD pre presents music in such an unmechanical and effortless way that was noticeable the first time I heard it.

Dave

Hi Dave

I have not yet been in a demo with the newest Nagra X DAC (I was not in Munich in 2019, but the other years).

If you value the unmechanical, effortless sound and fluidity of the musical message, CH is king to my ears. But you can end-up piling-up several boxes (separated PS, clock).
TotalDAC will be excellent too (same box accumulation possibly).

If you want the less boring sound, very engaging with lot’s of PRaT, the. DCS and JMF will be your friends. dCS is also fantastic regarding the 3D soundstage. But external Clock is (almost) a Must.

In term of overall “musicality” (a very personal concept...., I agree) Nagra and CH dominate the others to my own opinion.

If you look for the “perfect sound”, then MSB makes a lot of sense in that case.

All these DAC’s are so good that it takes many hours and days to fully understand the nature of their house’s sound. In your case brand synergy can also be truly beneficial. Even the former HD DAC is already a beast. A friend with an absolute ear told me he never heard timbre so close to reality for Classical music.

PS: Sorry for my English, not my native language ..! And sorry for this post on DAC’s within this Amp thread.