New turntable need suggestions

Bob Heinatz

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Jun 21, 2010
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Hi everyone I have owned for the past 5 years a Artisan Fidelity Lenco DCHM. This was their entry level Lenco model. This was a tremendous upgrade over my reconditioned Thorens 125 mk2. I have been using a SME M-9 arm and also want to upgrade the arm with the new table.
I have totally enjoyed my AF Lenco but it's time for my last table upgrade going into retirement at the end of this year. I love the idler wheel sound but would be open to direct drive or belt. There is always the option of moving up the AF line either DD or idler.
Budget $20k max table and arm. Would also consider used table and arm. Look forward to forum suggestions.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Bob, I would implore you to stay idler. I've been running my Trans Fi Audio Salvation direct rim drive tt since 2013, and it comprehensively beats my previous two belt drives, no Q.
I know of an owner of my tt/arm who feels it easily beats his previous fully-decked out Linn, as well as his PTP top plate Lenco L70. I believe he prefers his L70 to the Linn. I've gone a little crazy on bulletproof isolation via Stacore passive pneumatic platform.

My point is that well-executed idler has a totally compelling, possibly unique take on music reproduction. Grounded, palpable and textured presentation. I know proponents of belt and DD say they get that too, and who am I to disagree. But I feel there's a certain driven presentation you may easily miss if you drift away from idler.

As to which idler you should get, you'll get plenty of advice re a well restored 301 or 401. If I was looking at something a little more artisan and pretty, and by all accounts excellent sounding, I'd seriously investigate Torqueo.

Re Torqueo, reach out to Gian60.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Polyamory can be risky in audio...as in real life Lol.
Anyhow, I'm inoculated by idler, to the degree that I've spent the equivalent of an SME20, TW Akustic AC-3 or Brinkmann La Grange, on maxxing out my rim drive it's potential.
 

spiritofmusic

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Mike L can answer that better than anyone, running premier league idler, belt and DD.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Some music benefits more from drive, leading edge and ryhthmic organisation. Idler/rim drive.

Some benefits more from reproducing air and microdynamics. Belt drive.

No reason why all drive systems can't do all attributes. But often there seems to be some polarisation.

For me, idler absolutely nails my genres of prog, fusion, electric jazz. I've then tried to minimise my rim/idler shortcomings compared to the best of belt drive, by absolute attention to vibration isolation (Stacore/slate stand combination under tt), motor pod isolation (Symposium Svelte pad under pod), lightning fast & transparent arm/cart combination (Terminator air LT/Straingauge).

For me, it's required this extra effort to take rim/idler natural advantage on dense/rhythmic music and eek out capability on more spacious music like classical.
 
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PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Some music benefits more from drive, leading edge and ryhthmic organisation. Idler/rim drive.

Some benefits more from reproducing air and microdynamics. Belt drive.

No reason why all drive systems can't do all attributes. But often there seems to be some polarisation.

This makes sense to me Marc. I suspect a massive platter perhaps 100 pounds with a very good motor and belt or thread drive will also produce the drive leading edge and rhythmic organization. The problem is such turntables are rare and very costly. Tang’s got one.
 

spiritofmusic

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I'm not sure 100lb platter totally necessary.
The Spec Corp GMP-8000 has a 16" outsize diameter 35lb Gunmetal platter, high torque motor and string drive, heavy laminated ply plinth.
And only $25k w EMT arm.
This is the only belt drive I'd swap my Salvation for.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Perhaps not but how do the drive and leading edge and rhythmic organization with your rim Drive compare to a belt drive with a 35 pound platter? How can one really say?

There are unlikely other factors at play but for the sake of discussion I am proposing that a very heavy platter with belt is what is necessary to compete with a good idler in those areas you are focusing on.
 

awsmone

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Apr 6, 2014
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There are so many turntables out there now it is difficult choice

plus the arm and cart combos

you need someone like DD or Ked who have heard a lot

perhaps you should create a spreadsheet of what you desire to whittle the field down

eg vacuum hold down , capability more that one arm , drive type, phase locked versus synchronous etc

just to through a left field option the Bergman gaudier .......
 

Bob Heinatz

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Jun 21, 2010
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I think any one of the real costly tables regardless of the drive type would be a revelation in my room. However 20k or a stretch more is what I am working with. Btw Peter I have akways admired your SME.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Bob, contact the US distrib for the Spec Corp GMP-8000, and see what they have to say about it. Alongside Mike's CSPort, it's Japanese artisan engineering at it's finest, and would fit into yr budget.

www.toneimports.com
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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It ticks so many boxes for such a reasonable price. Unfortunately, virtually impossible to hear in the UK...only one example exists in Europe. But the few online clips I've heard sound promising. And it's combination of heavy oversize platter, high torque string-drive, massive laminated Birch plinth and magnetically isolated platter, makes it a contender to compare well to high torque idlers.
 
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ALF

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It ticks so many boxes for such a reasonable price. Unfortunately, virtually impossible to hear in the UK...only one example exists in Europe. But the few online clips I've heard sound promising. And it's combination of heavy oversize platter, high torque string-drive, massive laminated Birch plinth and magnetically isolated platter, makes it a contender to compare well to high torque idlers.
...yep SOM, think of it as a modern day EMT 927.

...second useful thought, I believe that one in Europe belongs to Mik’s brother.
 

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