On Cables

DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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LOL, pathetic!

David

These are just FACTS, David. Instead of nipping at my heels and barking for attention why don't you address these facts? It's because you have nothing and everyone knows it. :D
 
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PeterA

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Yes, Peter, fortunately many people have understood what I was meaning - just clarifying our discussions about our preferences. In good justice you were the one who created the trademark when you nicked your system thread with a generic audio term - I just added the (TM) to make clear I was addressing your specific preference or system choices when exchanging posts with you.

I will respond in my system thread later.
 

microstrip

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Back on Ron system, I would suggest him using an alternate layout with shorter cables for some time and borrowing Nordost Tyr for a start. Luke and Bea use Nordost cables for development of the VTLs in their own system and long ago when discussing cables Gary Koh told us that he considered Tyr as the more neutral cable of this brand.

Probably I will try these cables after I move in a new room, also because the Tyr cost is about one third of the Valhalla.
 
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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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These are just FACTS, David. Instead of nipping at my heels and barking for attention why don't you address these facts? It's because you have nothing and everyone knows it. :D
Get a life Dave, you’re so consumed with me you can’t even come up with an original insult. This is my last exchange with you anywhere and here’s why; جوابه ابلهان خاموشیست ( a Persian proverb).

I know you’re good at copying and pasting, try google translate!

David
 
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Ron Resnick

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Back on Ron system, I would suggest him using an alternate layout with shorter cables for some time and borrowing Nordost Tyr for a start. Luke and Bea use Nordost cables for development of the VTLs in their own system . . .

Probably I will try these cables after I move in a new room, also because the Tyr cost is about one third of the Valhalla.

Thank you, Francisco. It’s totally arbitrary, I admit, but in the expensive interconnect cable category I am interested only in Cardas Clear Beyond and MasterBuilt Ultra.

Which interconnect cables do you have presently?

Did you use single-ended or balanced interconnects from your phono stage to the input of the VTL TL-7.5 Series III?
 

Ron Resnick

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long ago when discussing cables Gary Koh told us that he considered Tyr as the more neutral cable of this brand.

The implication of this, I suppose, is that Nordost is traditionally kind of bright-sounding — which is why Nordost products have never been my cup of tea.
 

microstrip

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Thank you, Francisco. It’s totally arbitrary, I admit, but in the expensive interconnect cable category I am interested only in Cardas Clear Beyond and MasterBuilt Ultra.

Would love to try them, but they are not available for evaluation in my country - and the MasterBuilt Ultra is above what I can currently consider reasonable for 5 meter long cables.

When I consider cables I always look for prices of 1m and 5m cables, avoiding those whose prices increases almost linearly with length.

Which interconnect cables do you have presently?

Today listening to my old loyal Crystal Dreamline - I have a complete loom of this cable.
Although my preferred cables with VTL were the Transparent Opus, the need to fine tune them for specific equipment at the factory in the US made them a poor choice in a moment I am listening to diverse equipment. Although Transparent Audio re-tunes them for free, international shipping and customs fees with the US are becoming very expensive nowadays.

Did you use single-ended or balanced interconnects from your phono stage to the input of the VTL TL-7.5 Series III?

Always balanced - but mainly because my best cables are balanced and the Audio Research Phono 3 has a balanced output. .
 

microstrip

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The implication of this, I suppose, is that Nordost is traditionally kind of bright-sounding — which is why Nordost products have never been my cup of tea.

They changed a lot in version 2. I had the same opinion as you and avoided them for my systems, but good friends own Valhalla 2 and it is not bright sounding. Although I had this feeling in the past, some of the better and more real sound I have listened included the old Valhalla!
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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They changed a lot in version 2. I had the same opinion as you and avoided them for my systems, but good friends own Valhalla 2 and it is not bright sounding. Although I had this feeling in the past, some of the better and more real sound I have listened included the old Valhalla!

Valhalla V1 is not bright imo - it's a bit dry and if you have too many of them in your system, it can be too much of a good thing if you know what I mean.
 
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Sampajanna

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My experience with Nordost cables was very similar, Ron, as were my conclusions…..
 

Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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Per Ralph Morrison "When a wave reaches the end of a transmission line terminated in a reaistor equal to its characteristic impedance, there is no reflection. "

It makes me wonder if people spend too much time chasing name brands instead of understanding the circuit and applying the correct cabling.

I would also consider the material coating at terminations. That affects impedance which can be viewed as a resistor of sorts. And dissimilar metals eating at one another is no benefit.

There is also a consideration of length. I changed a spdif cable by a few inches and heard a distinct change in smear.

Maybe one spending tens, if not $100k on a total cable package should pay a consulting engineer to design a specification for a cable package of ideal characteristics.

Question is, who can do this.
 
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MarkusBarkus

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@Kingrex I think this post is a real homerun. Component synergy, metal/coating synergy in connectors, plugs, etc. is the low hanging fruit on the tree of sonic bliss.

And a real chore to understand the variables. I settled on components from the same manufacturer, which makes a big dent in the problem, and by trying to match like metals/coatings in outlets, plugs and cables.

Keeping contact points clean and adding a contact enhancer, as you have advocated, is another positive piece of the puzzle.

But the answer to your insightful and simple question of who can provide this info/service is...I don't know. System Synergy Guru is a needed service. Otherwise, a significant research project for the ordinary owner, IMO.
 

Kingrex

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@MarkusBarkus I bet guys like Ralph or Nelson could do it.

Transmission lines in a Circuit Board are at times well thought out. And those boards operate at much higher speeds with less distortions.

Yet here we are with our transmission lines connecting equipment and not a thought goes into how those cables interact in our systems.

Dartzeel has considered it with their 50 ohms connection and cable.

Its sort of a no wonder why cables are the wild west. Why no one can make any sort of definitive statement on a cables "sonic signature". We haven't the slightest idea how its interacting in the circuit.
 
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Ron Resnick

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How important is the “velocity of propagation” to the sound we here coming out of cables connecting our components?
 
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ddk

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How important is the “velocity of propagation” to the sound we here coming out of cables connecting our components?
Dear Ron,
I highly recommend filling up a bowl halfway with water grab a spoon and start churning, you'll get more out of that than going down this path!

david
 

bonzo75

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How important is the “velocity of propagation” to the sound we here coming out of cables connecting our components?

Very important
 

DaveC

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How important is the “velocity of propagation” to the sound we here coming out of cables connecting our components?


It's a major factor in how a cable sounds because velocity is determined by the insulation, which also has an effect on mechanical damping of the wire.
 

DasguteOhr

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It's a major factor in how a cable sounds because velocity is determined by the insulation, which also has an effect on mechanical damping of the wire.
You nailed it
dielectric of the insulation is important. theoretically, air is the best insulator. but it doesn't work with cables, which is why plastics FPTE, FEP or cotton are extremely good. they prevent charge packets from sticking to the insulation and affecting signal speed.
 
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microstrip

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Per Ralph Morrison "When a wave reaches the end of a transmission line terminated in a reaistor equal to its characteristic impedance, there is no reflection. "

It makes me wonder if people spend too much time chasing name brands instead of understanding the circuit and applying the correct cabling. (...)

Electrical termination of cables with the characteristic impedance of cables is well understood since long - usually second year students of Electrical Engineering measure it in the Laboratory work. However, due to the involved propagation speed it is only relevant at high frequencies, well outside the audio band.

Commonly applied in communications and digital circuits, the concept has been applied several times to audio - Meridian used 75 ohm IC cable with a 75 ohm terminator in the 90's and DartZeel uses 50 ohm cables in their 50 ohm DartZeel interface.

Occos also did it with speaker cables, using a resistive insulator to manufacture a cable with around 6 ohm characteristic impedance that would match the speaker impedance.

In general, the characteristic impedance of IC cables (50 ~150 ohm) is too low to match the input impedance of common electronics, that is typically higher than 10 kohm. Wereferred to it in WBF before - see https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...idnt-hear-with-other-cables.21439/post-418996
 
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