Oppo SPDIF multi-ch digital output board?

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
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I think a couple of people here (Amir, Edorr) have had experience with the multi-channel SPDIF digital output board for the Oppo.

What were your thoughts on it, did it work well, any drawbacks? Any other solutions to get multi-ch digital audio off a blu ray (yes I know about the HDCP reasons behind not having multi-ch digital outputs...)

I am toying with the idea of creating a digital chain from blu-ray through DSP through d/a for home theater. Conventionally and without resorting to a ADA or Datasat one would have to use a home theater processor to convert the digital to analog then reconvert it from analog to digital on the input of a DSP used for crossover or correction.
 

amirm

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I actually don't have any experience with that but have heard of the option. BTW, HDCP does allow digital. Just doesn't let it be above 48 Khz.

It is a tempting option to get as it allows much easier processing of the audio as I think you are going after. Unfortunately modders never provide measurements so it is hard to know if they are doing a better job here or not.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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I think a couple of people here (Amir, Edorr) have had experience with the multi-channel SPDIF digital output board for the Oppo.

What were your thoughts on it, did it work well, any drawbacks? Any other solutions to get multi-ch digital audio off a blu ray (yes I know about the HDCP reasons behind not having multi-ch digital outputs...)

I am toying with the idea of creating a digital chain from blu-ray through DSP through d/a for home theater. Conventionally and without resorting to a ADA or Datasat one would have to use a home theater processor to convert the digital to analog then reconvert it from analog to digital on the input of a DSP used for crossover or correction.

I finally got my modded Oppo up and running on multi channel this week-end and it completely trounces anything else I have had in my system. I do my critical listening on MCH SACD, but the conclusions hold for BR concerts as well. I don't listen to sound effects on movies, but no reason to assume results will be any different. Before the Oppo digi out, I have compared the following two signal paths:

Marantz ud9004 -> Six Shooter -> Trinnov (with A/D conversion) -> Perfectwave MKII DAC for mains, Trinnov DAC for Center, Marantz Dac for surrounds (MY BASELINE SYSTEM, SOUNDED MAGNIFICENT)

Oppo 93 HDMI -> ADA -> Trinnov (with A/D conversion) -> Perfectwave MKII DAC for mains, Trinnov DAC for Center, ADA Dac for surrounds (TRIED THIS JUST FOR KICKS. ANALOG SIGNAL PATH THROUGH MARANTZ WINS HANDS DOWN).

The Oppo digital into the Trinnov beats both these signal paths by a mile, for SACD this runs at 88/24 (the Trinnov does not support 176/24, although the Oppo will output it), and for BR you will get native resolution.

I run 4 channels through the Trinnov and surrounds through another DAC (ideally you would get an 8 channel Trinnov - too much $$$ for me). The four channel Trinnov allows me to configure two "delay lines" though. This just applies the system delay to an additional two lines. I use delay lines for my surrounds. My only problem is I have not gotten RS232 to work on the Trinnov. To synch up volume control for now I need to operate two remote controls. One I got Trinnov RS232 sorted out this will be taken care off through a macro in iRule. If you have a 8 channel processor with volume control in the chain this is not an issue of course.

If you take DRC out of the equation, this becomes even less complex and more compelling. If I had 10K to spend and want to get the very best (sans EQ) 10k could buy, here is what I would do:

Get a modded Oppo ($1500)
Get 3 x wyred 4 sound DAC2 ($4500)
Get a good SSP for less critical sources (satellite TV) (Marants / Onkyo?) ($2000)
Good digital cabling (essential! $1000-$2000)

You run the Oppo into the DACs and control all three DACs with a single remote control. Alternatively, synch up control of the DACs with iRule macros.
You run the SSP into the analog bypass of the DACs. Very simple, and I promise you for 10K you will have a setup that will beat the crap out of ANYTHING south of a 20K SSP.

If you have more to spend, replace the wyred 4 sound DACs with Bel Canto DACs - get a 3.5 for mains, and a 2.5 for center/sub/surrounds and their powersupply. This would be in the 12K range and be the best money can buy, short of 40K worht of EMM labs kit for SACD. Since everything is in the digital domain, there are various options of running this signal through EQ / room corrections if you don't mind the complexity - including pro stuff like Beyer. The sky is the limit.

The Oppo digi out architecture lands you on an entirely different price performance curve. I am absolutely convinced my system beats the 40K ADA reference (I have a better input signal - no HDMI, reclocked, custome DSD conversion for SACD, the same DRC and a better DAC for my mains).

PM me if you want more detail. I have a linear PS for the Oppo still boxed up. I will install this later this month.

One caveat. This setup will relentlessy expose poor recordings as poor recordings....
 
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edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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I actually don't have any experience with that but have heard of the option. BTW, HDCP does allow digital. Just doesn't let it be above 48 Khz.

It is a tempting option to get as it allows much easier processing of the audio as I think you are going after. Unfortunately modders never provide measurements so it is hard to know if they are doing a better job here or not.

This is so obviously superior you don't need any measurements (Except for two ears - not stuffed with wax). The way this works is the Oppo analog board is replaced with a custom digi board that takes a feed from the Oppo digi board. The custom board reclocks and does proprietary PCM to DSD conversion. So you can compare the Oppo conversion with the custom conversion in real time, by switching the Oppo SACD output between DSD and PCM. When the output is set to DSD, the board does the conversion. When it is set to PCM, the Oppo does its own (it still gets reclocked). The custom conversion is far superior.
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
590
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330
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Hi Edorr!

Wow that's quite some endorsement :)

Did you use the AudioPraise Vanity board?

Thanks,

Nyal
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Hi Edorr!

Wow that's quite some endorsement :)

Did you use the AudioPraise Vanity board?

Thanks,

Nyal

Yes. It is very sensitive to getting the connections and cabling right though. I first used an RCA terminated S/PDIF cable with canare AES/EBU - S/PDIF adaptor and this sounded like crap. As it turns out the adapter was resticted to 48/24. I then used a Z-System Z8 router as both input switch (I switch three different digital sources into the Trinnov) and impedance converter and it works beautifully.
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
590
4
330
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Yes. It is very sensitive to getting the connections and cabling right though. I first used an RCA terminated S/PDIF cable with canare AES/EBU - S/PDIF adaptor and this sounded like crap. As it turns out the adapter was resticted to 48/24. I then used a Z-System Z8 router as both input switch (I switch three different digital sources into the Trinnov) and impedance converter and it works beautifully.

Did you order from Audiopraise directly or from JVB? JVB seem to offer a SPDIF mod to the Oppo but I'm not sure if it is the same board.

BTW I have had great results with Belden 1694A with Canare crimp connectors.
 

edorr

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May 10, 2010
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Great! BTW I have had great results with Belden 1694A with Canare crimp connectors.

I am sure there are other solutions. In fact, for the 2 channel proof of conceppt I used a short piece of 75 Ohm cable with RCA connection on one and AES/EBU on the other end (I believe Lynx makes these) which worked reasonably well.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Did you order from Audiopraise directly or from JVB? JVB seem to offer a SPDIF mod to the Oppo but I'm not sure if it is the same board.

The JVB board is not the same. They were made in the USA and I don't think they even sell them anymore. I ordered the Vanity board directly from the manufacturer and installed it myself. The Vanity93 board is in fact better because of the custom DSD conversion (the JVB board does not do this).
 

mojave

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Oct 29, 2010
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I am toying with the idea of creating a digital chain from blu-ray through DSP through d/a for home theater.
That is why I use an HTPC. Simplicity of equipment and signal chain with complete DSP flexibility and the ability for the DSP to improve without having to buy any new hardware.

HTPC > firewire/usb to audio device > balanced interconnects to amps > speaker cables to speakers
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
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Seattle, WA
That is why I use an HTPC. Simplicity of equipment and signal chain with complete DSP flexibility and the ability for the DSP to improve without having to buy any new hardware.

HTPC > firewire/usb to audio device > balanced interconnects to amps > speaker cables to speakers
PCs are certainly superior in that manner. That said, to use that for Blu-ray as Nyal mentioned requires stripping the copy protection. As otherwise the player will have to downsample.
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
590
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SF Bay Area, CA, USA
PCs are certainly superior in that manner. That said, to use that for Blu-ray as Nyal mentioned requires stripping the copy protection. As otherwise the player will have to downsample.

How does one go about 'stripping' the copy protection from blu rays in a HTPC?

To be honest I prefer the hardware approach. My experience with computers in audio and AV systems is that they just introduce a layer of extra work and open the door for signal dropouts. Having said that I do use a Mac Mini for audio running Pure Music over a USB to SPDIF converter.
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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How does one go about 'stripping' the copy protection from blu rays in a HTPC?
Correct or else they lose their AACS license to play in the future.

To be honest I prefer the hardware approach. My experience with computers in audio and AV systems is that they just introduce a layer of extra work and open the door for signal dropouts. Having said that I do use a Mac Mini for audio running Pure Music over a USB to SPDIF converter.
Video playback can be tricky to get right for audio it really is non-issue. I use a PC for all of our media consumption at our vacation house from music library to off-air recording/DVR and Blu-ray/HD DVD playback and it works really well. It is a low power machine I built using SSD as the boot drive so it powers up extremely fast (I leave it on all the time anyway though).
 

mojave

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Oct 29, 2010
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How does one go about 'stripping' the copy protection from blu rays in a HTPC?
I use AnyDVD HD which works with Blu-ray discs played directly from disc. It is a background program that allows you to use your media player of choice for playback. Those that rip exclusively will also use AnyDVD HD or MakeMKV. MakeMKV is currently free, but you have to always download the latest beta. While you could use these options to rip Blu-rays you don't own, I hope no one here would endorse that kind of usage.

I will say that playback without the copy protection also currently doesn't allow you to use the Blu-ray menu system. I recently attended a tour of 4 home theaters in Des Moines, Iowa. It was the first time I'd ever seen a Blu-ray menu before and I found that I didn't like the extra time it took to navigate and start playback. I'm used to inserting a Blu-ray in the HTPC and automatically starting playback about 15 seconds later on the main title.

My experience with computers in audio and AV systems is that they just introduce a layer of extra work and open the door for signal dropouts.
Since I've only ever used an HPTC, audio device and display device (I've never owned a receiver, VCR, DVD player, Blu-ray Player, or TV) I always see the hardware as extra work. I've had DCX2496 and miniDSP which both required much more setup, cables, and chance for getting things wrong. I've rarely had signal dropouts in my stable HTPC system (and those were my own fault), but have in my testing PC's which I use with beta software and myriads of DirectShow filters.
 

Bulldogger

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Apr 20, 2010
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Did you order from Audiopraise directly or from JVB? JVB seem to offer a SPDIF mod to the Oppo but I'm not sure if it is the same board.

BTW I have had great results with Belden 1694A with Canare crimp connectors.

Audiopraise also sells a Vanity 93 Lite board which cost 225.00 and does what the JVB board designed by Shawn Fogg does. You save on the installation because the Vanity board is DIY. The Lite board does not have all of the options of the regular board. In my case, I would not need the DSD options as all of my SACD's are ripped and I never plan to "spin," another SACD again. I also am doubtfull the reclocking of the board would be needed for my dac which has three separate master clocks and oscillators each optimized for different sample rates and asynchronous buffering. http://audiopraise.com/vanity93/lite.php I'll have have to ask the company if there is any benefit to my buying the more expensive board.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Audiopraise also sells a Vanity 93 Lite board which cost 225.00 and does what the JVB board designed by Shawn Fogg does. You save on the installation because the Vanity board is DIY. The Lite board does not have all of the options of the regular board. In my case, I would not need the DSD options as all of my SACD's are ripped and I never plan to "spin," another SACD again. I also am doubtfull the reclocking of the board would be needed for my dac which has three separate master clocks and oscillators each optimized for different sample rates and asynchronous buffering. http://audiopraise.com/vanity93/lite.php I'll have have to ask the company if there is any benefit to my buying the more expensive board.

What to you do with MCH SACD? I have all my 2 channels SACD's ripped as well and play them with JRiver, but unless you have a server that outputs MCH on a lynx card or HDMI this won't work for MCH, and the modded Oppo with the vanity93 card is still your best bet.
 

Bulldogger

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Apr 20, 2010
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What to you do with MCH SACD? I have all my 2 channels SACD's ripped as well and play them with JRiver, but unless you have a server that outputs MCH on a lynx card or HDMI this won't work for MCH, and the modded Oppo with the vanity93 card is still your best bet.
I have the server covered for multichannel SACD with both methods covered. NO way I'm spinning disc if I don't have to do so. Contacted the company, and if I don't need DSD, already have good jitter reduction, and am using for PCM, I was advised that the Vanity 93 lite would be all I need. It makes no sense for me to pay for an FIFO input buffer and master clocks when my dac already does that well. The vanity 93 lite is really a bargain. THe Vanity 93 would be a waste of money for me. "Thank you for your interest. We sell our products directly as well as through a network of our dealers. For western Europe and US you can inquiry JvB Digital. If your dac already deals with jitter and you don't plan to listen to SACDs you should be fine with the Lite version. For PCM based media such as Blu-ray both modules output the same data.
Should you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,
Pavel Valousek" They have a fast response to questions via email and on the forum.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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I have the server covered for multichannel SACD with both methods covered. NO way I'm spinning disc if I don't have to do so. Contacted the company, and if I don't need DSD, already have good jitter reduction, and am using for PCM, I was advised that the Vanity 93 lite would be all I need. It makes no sense for me to pay for an FIFO input buffer and master clocks when my dac already does that well. The vanity 93 lite is really a bargain. THe Vanity 93 would be a waste of money for me. "Thank you for your interest. We sell our products directly as well as through a network of our dealers. For western Europe and US you can inquiry JvB Digital. If your dac already deals with jitter and you don't plan to listen to SACDs you should be fine with the Lite version. For PCM based media such as Blu-ray both modules output the same data.
Should you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,
Pavel Valousek" They have a fast response to questions via email and on the forum.

There should be a lot of interest if you pieced together a media server that does MCH BR / SACD with lynx AES/EBU and HDMI digital out. Why would you even need a modded Oppo? It seems like you're fully coverer with the server.
 

Bulldogger

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Apr 20, 2010
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There should be a lot of interest if you pieced together a media server that does MCH BR / SACD with lynx AES/EBU and HDMI digital out. Why would you even need a modded Oppo? It seems like you're fully coverer with the server.
I am not that knowledgeable about servers. However to the best of my understanding, you have to chose one sound card or the other for output. That makes it impossible to output high-rez digital concurrently with HDMI because the Lynx card does not have HDMI. I plan to send digital out from the Vanity card to my dac while transmitting via HDMI for the remaining channels to my surround processor. Jriver can transmit 7.1 with JRSS from a 5.1 SACD sound track via HDMI. The Vanity card can not. In order to use the DSD processing, you have to turn HDMI off. You are then limited to 5.1 of digital solely from the Vanity card. That is another reason the DSD processing would not work for me. It would stop my from being able to concurrently transmit over HDMI. I already have all of the SACD's I intend to ever rip, ripped. However it seems very time consuming to have to rip every Blu-ray and I'm still not sure how to do that with a lossless sound track and video? Will Jriver even do that? I would prefer to use DD Prologic 2x for movies instead of Jriver surround which I know very little about. It's just easier to be able to simply play a blu-ray through the Oppo than to have to rip every one. And yes, I've checked with both versions of the card. This will work and all channels will be in sync.
 
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