Outstanding Sound Improvement with Videos before-after/ VYDA Cables

[microstrip]

To my Boston Group audio buddies Al M. and Ack:

We have disagreed consistently and vehemently in our private discussions about the validity and purpose of these system videos. You both claim they have no purpose, no value, and should never be used to judge the sound of one's system. Al at least thinks there may be some value when there is a direct comparison being made as there is here, but basically, and I quote you, you think such videos "suck".

I get that and you are free to have your opinions. That is all fine. However, the hypocrisy is quite something when you come onto someone else's thread and then do the very thing you claim people should not do: you are judging his system by listening and watching his videos. You then share your opinions about the videos publicly on a forum thread. You even now claim that what Vienna tells us about the nature of this direct comparison and the conditions under which the videos were recorded is false - that there is some unknown additional difference behind the videos that must explain the huge difference, that switching just one power cord can not possibly account for the difference in the two videos.

I have heard dramatic differences in my own system by changing one power cord. I have experienced something similar to what I hear from Vienna's videos, so I know it is possible. I moved away from such cords for my own reasons.

Vienna is a valued member of our audio fraternity here at WBF. He is willing to share his opinions with the forum. We should have the respect to take him at his word and trust that he is describing things accurately. If you do not place value on these types of videos, you should simply not watch them. Frankly, I am very surprised that you would comment given your vehement criticisms of such videos.

I do not understand how on the one hand you can say these videos have no validity and claim they should not be judged for their sound quality, and then do exactly that, and judge their sonics, plus insult the author of the videos by publicly accusing him of not being truthful about how he made the videos.

@Vienna is showing patience and restraint here. I respect and commend him for that. I am surprised that you do not give him the same respect.

Peter,

Your wise friends are simply pointing several aspects that are known since long - measurements do not show cable differences, unless there are extreme cases of misuse. As soon as you use a microphone to record something your are carrying a measurement - creating something solid that represents permanently the signal. Pretending that these cable differences can be shown in these poor technical conditions is misleading.

I have shown with proper spectral measurements how misleading these videos can be. People have posted in this forum extremely incorrect data and arguments on cable measurements, showing measured differences of several dB.

Sorry you and some others see others arguments as being insults. I hope Vienna is not considering so, we are just referring the problems of such method. IMHO if people want to share valid information they should do as Gary Koh, BruceB and Michael Fremer did - record the output of the preamplifier in HiRez.

 

[ack]

Ignore him - he has no business derailing the thread. Processing information can be tough.

 

[marmota]

I don't understand why people question the videos ("sounds too different, you changed more than a cable, duh").

He not only shared two comparison videos, but will upload more introducing more cables to share the gradual differences from just two cables vs full loom...how can you guys be so bitter and childish to someone as passionate and generous with his time?

"This is why we can't have nice things"...I always hated that sentence, don't be so dumb to make it true.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

Your wise friends are simply pointing several aspects that are known since long - measurements do not show cable differences, unless there are extreme cases of misuse. As soon as you use a microphone to record something your are carrying a measurement - creating something solid that represents permanently the signal. Pretending that these cable differences can be shown in these poor technical conditions is misleading.

I have shown with proper spectral measurements how misleading these videos can be. People have posted in this forum extremely incorrect data and arguments on cable measurements, showing measured differences of several dB.

Sorry you and some others see others arguments as being insults. I hope Vienna is not considering so, we are just referring the problems of such method. IMHO if people want to share valid information they should do as Gary Koh, BruceB and Michael Fremer did - record the output of the preamplifier in HiRez.

Francisco, I wasn’t aware that Vienna is measuring cables and presenting measurements to us. I’ve seen a set of cable measurements made by AJ Conti of Basis audio. He used to design and manufacture audio cables some of which ended up inside Pass electronics. He showed me a suite of cable measurements of different manufacturers and told me how the measurements corresponded with the sounds of those cables.

Back to the topic of this discussion, Vienna just listened to his system with these different power cords. He made the videos and listened to the videos and told us that they are representative of the differences he hears between the cables when listening to his actual system.

Why is that not enough for us? Are we not to take him at his word? I have not heard his system, nor have the critics on this thread. I for one appreciate his efforts and willingness to share his impressions with us. I do not understand why you want to make the discussion a criticism of his methods.

He seems happy with the new cord. He is telling us the videos represent the sound of the new cord. And listeners for the most part seem to prefer the sound of the new cord through the videos. Frankly I don’t understand why there’s any controversy.

 

[Al M.]

IMHO if people want to share valid information they should do as Gary Koh, BruceB and Michael Fremer did - record the output of the preamplifier in HiRez.

Excellent suggestion.

 

[marmota]

Back to the topic of this discussion, Vienna just listened to his system with these different power cords. He made the videos and listened to the videos and told us that they are representative of the differences he hears between the cables when listening to his actual system.

Why is that not enough for us? Are we not to take him at his word? I have not heard his system, nor have the critics on this thread. I for one appreciate his efforts and willingness to share his impressions with us. I do not understand why you want to make the discussion a criticism of his methods.

He seems happy with the new cord. He is telling us the videos represent the sound of the new cord. And listeners for the most part seem to prefer the sound of the new cord through the videos. Frankly I don’t understand why there’s any controversy.

Exactly!
Even more, according to @Vienna, the cable manufacturer offers demo cables for free without any sort of commitment from the buyer...In case of doubt, what more can we ask? I understand that some people doesn't like videos of audio systems, but this is one of those rare situations where there's nothing to criticize.

 

[Tango]

If you can hear the difference on the video, you sure can hear that difference in real with more magnitude. And if the owner of the system confirm the difference then look for his motive if there is any for stating such claim. If the owner business is selling a yacht, is it likely or not that he would gain anything from making this video and post in this forum, other than being enthusiastic. Video is only for giving indication of difference. Hearing it myself from the video with the owner description, for me, is more trustworthy than anyone writing a review on it no matter how famous he is. You also do not need to go so high tech making video. Why go so high tech if you already know a sound from a video is so dependent on many factors and does not represent specific of true sound in the room. Can you recognize the voice of your wife from a video? If you cannot even recognize the voice of your wife from a video you really need to see a doctor or get a new wife. "Indication" is a good datapoint to explore or not explore an equipment further. Again, video is only for indication. If Vienna screwed up taking a simple mobile video, he should just say it. If he did not screw up, that is why he does not need to explain to anyone. I encourage anyone wanting to buy an expensive piece of audio gear to at least hear video comparison if you cannot access a sample to hear in your own system. Hear "comparison" so that you won't be hearing just the system that the interested gear is in.

 

[microstrip]

Francisco, I wasn’t aware that Vienna is measuring cables and presenting measurements to us. I’ve seen a set of cable measurements made by AJ Conti of Basis audio. He used to design and manufacture audio cables some of which ended up inside Pass electronics. He showed me a suite of cable measurements of different manufacturers and told me how the measurements corresponded with the sounds of those cables.

Back to the topic of this discussion, Vienna just listened to his system with these different power cords. He made the videos and listened to the videos and told us that they are representative of the differences he hears between the cables when listening to his actual system.

Why is that not enough for us? Are we not to take him at his word? I have not heard his system, nor have the critics on this thread. I for one appreciate his efforts and willingness to share his impressions with us. I do not understand why you want to make the discussion a criticism of his methods.

He seems happy with the new cord. He is telling us the videos represent the sound of the new cord. And listeners for the most part seem to prefer the sound of the new cord through the videos. Frankly I don’t understand why there’s any controversy.

Yes, Peter, I know about the van den Hul serious measurements - he needed to go down to bellow -140 dB to measure something and only measured signal cables, not power cables. He developed sophisticated specific instrumentation to carry these measurements. It is just one of the reasons why I object to the use of these recordings.

You fail to understand our problem. In this hobby we need a minimum of correlation to share useful information - our aim is not to spread random information. IMHO these recordings can't show correlation with power cable differences and all differences are due to phone handling or maybe other obscure differences such as amplifier warm-up (reaching equilibrium, not just thermal) after being switched off/on. We are not debating cartridges, tonearms, zenith or azimuth - just the damned cables.

In this forum we discuss sound and methods to evaluate sound.

BTW, to make it clear, although I have no doubt of Vienna good intentions, IMHO such videos misrepresent the cable differences, making a poor service to the manufacturers and the cable industry. But yes, I firmly believe Vienna is happy with his choice and I am happy with his findings.

 

[ack]

In this forum we discuss sound and methods to evaluate sound.

More than that, people put down elaborate reviews and praise stupid videos as "proof" of good sound. And when the video owner says that's what it sounds like in real life, then it becomes a fact. Fascinating... We solved that problem, I guess... MP3 smart-phone videos using mediocre mononaural mics is what we've been looking for. Not unlike someone claiming he won the election, and it then becomes a fact.

 

[Hieukm]

I guess we are back to taking written reviewers words/methodology because Microstrip/Al M putting doubt on how the videos were recorded or the sound was too much different for a power cord. Although you gentlemen may be very knowledgeable about audio and audio equipment but i will take these videos over your words or doubt anyday assuming the original poster dont have any ill intention.

Look at what totalDAC do to show the improvement of the TotalD1-driver in their youtube video. It is clearly better and fairer than any of the top reviewer description. From now on all the reviewer better include video with proper equipment rather than flying on their mouth.

 

[Kingsrule]

Thanks guys for whatever reason I cant connect to VYDA

 

[Vienna]

Gentlemen please calm down.

First of all please note that my income is generated (thankfully) from an industry totally different, Hi-Fi, as for the most here , is only an expensive hobby.

please further note that I don’t have any interest of any kind in relation with VYDA and until few days ago I didn’t even know these cables or Enrico. Gianluigi introduced his cables.

@bazelio may confirm that until the moment I got to demo VYDA, I had at my place for trial Audioquest Dragons and I was writing to him that they were killer cables which had also made a big improvement. I am expecting also to try Zenwave cables. @DaveC will confirm this too.

if Audioquest were better than Vyda, this thread would be about the Dragons (I still believe that they are very good but Vyda worked better for me)

I was very surprised from the sound improvement I got from Vyda and I was excited with their quality too, and thought that I had to share it here, I am not making money out of this. I am still spending for this hobby as the most here.

if I were one of the disbelievers and Since they are completely free to demo, I would get a pair and I would report back with my findings.

 

[Al M.]

Gentlemen please calm down.

First of all please note that my income is generated (thankfully) from an industry totally different, Hi-Fi, as for the most here , is only an expensive hobby.

please further note that I don’t have any interest of any kind in relation with VYDA and until few days ago I didn’t even know these cables or Enrico. Gianluigi introduced his cables.

@bazelio may confirm that until the moment I got to demo VYDA, I had at my place for trial Audioquest Dragons and I was writing to him that they were killer cables which had also made a big improvement. I am expecting also to try Zenwave cables. @DaveC will confirm this too.

if Audioquest were better than Vyda, this thread would be about the Dragons (I still believe that they are very good but Vyda worked better for me)

I was very surprised from the sound improvement I got from Vyda and I was excited with their quality too, and thought that I had to share it here, I am not making money out of this. I am still spending for this hobby as the most here.

if I were one of the disbelievers and Since they are completely free to demo, I would get a pair and I would report back with my findings.

Vienna, did anyone here raise the possibility that you were an industry shill for VYDA? I am not aware that anyone did. This type of concern was never on my own mind either.

 

[jeff1225]

Cable talk is as polarizing as US politics......

 

[Vienna]

Vienna, did anyone here raise the possibility that you were an industry shill for VYDA? I am not aware that anyone did. This type of concern was never on my own mind either.

Then Al there is no reason to lose your temper or get nervous, at my business false claims are being confronted by facts not theories.

Cable talk is as polarizing as US politics......

haha I can see

 

[Al M.]

Then Al there is no reason to lose your temper or get nervous, at my business false claims are being confronted by facts not theories.

I did not lose my temper at you, Vienna. As far as I was concerned, the discussion would have been over yesterday morning. I did not reignite it.

 

[thedudeabides]

Yes but this doesn’t affect the sound,

The sonic differences between the videos are enormous. I aways thought a higher bit rate improves the sound. Like the difference between a Rebook and SACD CD and streaming Spotify vs Tidal HD. Am I missing something?

 

[Vienna]

The sonic differences between the videos are enormous. I aways thought a higher bit rate improves the sound. Like the difference between a Rebook and SACD CD and streaming Spotify vs Tidal HD. Am I missing something?

Yes , the fact that you can try them and have your own real opinion on whether it’s the bitrate , remember no cost no commitment

 

[treitz3]

<SNIP> Do you mean a power cord cancel culture for noise?

I do believe EVERY audiophile amongst us would agree that cancel culture for unwanted noise when it comes to audio is completely acceptable.

Tom

 

[tima]

Sorry you and some others see others arguments as being insults. I hope Vienna is not considering so, we are just referring the problems of such method.

Perhaps, but this seems like the wrong place for that, er, discussion.

Vienna is excited (?) about cables brought to his attention by another forum member. Along with describing them, he posted videos of music from his system before and after the new cables. He says they are representative of what he hears from his system.

Rather than taking Vienna at his word, rather than thanking him for his effort and for bringing forth his discovery (would you know anything about Vyda without Vienna's post?) some people were sceptical about the videos, claiming that the before-after sound differences were too great and something else, not the cables, must explain their impressions. The culprit was the video! Whether you think so or not, the way this was done came across as impugning Vienna's efforts. Guy trys to show us something new, but no - what a way to harsh his buzz. This does not encourage others to bring forth their discoveries.

It seems like almost every thread with videos ends up challenging them in some way. This ends up challenging the person who posted them or the truth of what they try to convey or something - and dammit that challenge must be issued and dammit videos are a lousy way to convey what they do.

Start a thread about the value or validity or propriety of posting videos and of their use. It will no doubt be interesting and entertaining. Do we need to nominate someone for that? Try to do that in a straightforward way and not get squirrely when someone disagrees (as I think micro was suggesting above.)

Please stop turning every thread with a video away from the subject at hand.