Both REL and JL Audio make superb subwoofers, it all comes down to personal preference, the room size and the media type. Both are very musical , offer tight bass and when set up properly disappear. The JL Fantom line have built in room optimization which makes it much easier to integrate into your system . I have set up a few different home theater systems in different homes and my preference has always been JL F112’s (one for each from speaker is perfect although you can get a way with one if the room size isnt too large).
REL vs JL Audio subs
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I found the optimization of JL quite limited, I didn't like its results and I shut it down, at the time I purchased an external Behringer dcx24/96 (crossover/processor), and I got much more flexibility and reached most impressive results, without the intervention of the external unit, the subwoofer felt unconnected and did not disappear as I expected from it,
also I had the feeling that as I cut it high around 80, the sub felt more local and I didn't like it.
So I worked with him afterwards on a very low cross when I combined him in 2ch with Wilson w/p7 exactly a decade ago.
with Rel (studio3 ,storm3, Britannia b3)
The results was more to my liking
With natural bass, blends, disappears with less "engagement"
also I had the feeling that as I cut it high around 80, the sub felt more local and I didn't like it.
So I worked with him afterwards on a very low cross when I combined him in 2ch with Wilson w/p7 exactly a decade ago.
with Rel (studio3 ,storm3, Britannia b3)
The results was more to my liking
With natural bass, blends, disappears with less "engagement"
Sub integration has been the most frustrating exercise I’ve dealt with in this hobby. JLA and REL always come up as the brands 2-channel audiophiles generally prefer but they aren’t very user-friendly. I had a pair of JL Audio E110s but sold them because I struggled with integration. Getting up and down to fiddle with knobs on the subs was a real issue. I sold them but decided to try subs again when I purchased a small pair of Magnepans, but went with a decidedly “non-audiophile” solution and bought a pair of SVS SB2000 Pros and their wireless connectivity solution. SVS has an excellent phone app for setup and adjustments that can be done from the listening position. And the wireless connection enabled me to try out lots of room positions for the subs. Ultimately I was able to integrate them nicely and it was actually fun and easy to do. I could even change settings on the fly, depending on the recording. My current setup doesn’t seem to need subs, although I’m tempted to experiment just the same since it’s easy and fast. I wouldn’t bother if I still had the JLAs.
The E series JL subs do not have room optimization so I am not surprised by your experience. The F Series does have room optimization and when the microphone is put in the primary listening position and the crossover and volume control are adjusted to just be barely noticeable you will have good results. My crossover is set at 50 hz and the volume on the F112 is less than 50 %.
My experience is that using DiracLive (either DLBC or, especially, ART versions) set up with the ability to control each sub individually yields good results. EQ built into a sub is useful only when you have just one since they cannot talk to each other.
Yes the remote function on SVS subs are awesome! Can one set up a sub correctly with a remote, yes. But a remote makes it so much better and easier. Congrats on finding a solution that worked for you.
Being able to dial in the exact time alignment for subwoofers is important. Dirac is good, as is Trinnov which is what I will usually recommend. At a minimum you can use Room EQ Wizard to compute what the delay(s) should be.
A high-quality subwoofer that was excellently designed with excellent actual characteristics, I believe it will sound high-quality enough even before Correction's and adjustments.
As mentioned,
REL(subject of this thread) was less required for far-reaching adjustments,
in contrast to JL (subject of this thread) which was required for much more accurate adjustments, and required an external CROSS/processor.
As mentioned,
REL(subject of this thread) was less required for far-reaching adjustments,
in contrast to JL (subject of this thread) which was required for much more accurate adjustments, and required an external CROSS/processor.
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Only just seen this post...
I experimented with audio feet and found the REL supports to be better.
However I tried the RELs direct onto a carpet floor and direct onto a solid wooden floor and then tried them on a platform. In every case I found them to sound better firing down onto a 2" thick slab of slate. YMMV.
I didn't place three JLs subs in my space/living room
Around 2013 in a rented apartment, I had the F113 that replaced a TRIAD 18" subwoofer, placed mainly in the front, initially between the speakers and then to the side, which were the only positions I could allow,
the performance improved significantly when I connected an external CROSS unit and reached high performance, But quite a few resources were taken.
The JL been replaced with a Velodyne DD18plus, which fitted in significantly better.
When we moved to the new house about 9 years ago, The Velodyne was less integrated than I expected,
I decided to test JL again this time in the configuration of a pair of F110 subwoofers, I worked a lot with ANTHEM and their RC Setup, then I also integrated a DIRAC 88a as an external unit, after countless attempts and tests, the best result I had was when One subwoofer is diagonally towards me and the other is on the other side further forward, unfortunately my wife didn't liked the preferred locations,
I moved on, and brought countless subwoofers, (smaller velodyne dd15, SVS's, B&Ws and more) the ones I liked more (for me) were REL.
worth to mention that i also very like the Wilson Audio Active Watch-dog 1 & 2.
Today, I spend 10% watching movies and any time I have in front of the SETUP I spend with 2ch music,
that's why I invested significantly there
(I gave up expensive processors, center's and subwoofers, after I had them and ran back to 2ch music without all those artificial aids and invested significantly more in two channels).
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itay123,
Reading your dissatisfied subwoofer descriptions I’m almost certain your subwoofer issues could have been easily remedied. Generally the bass mode locations can be along boundary walls which may not have met the household aesthetic.
During your time with the Velodyne DD-18 Plus and the Plus’ User's Manual did you happen to come across, 'Optimizing for Subwoofer Placement Crawl' on page25?
For what ever reason this is explanation comes well after much of the setup process’s and is easily overlooked. A slightly different version appeared in the DD User Manual on page 22.
This is actually the first step for any -3db subwoofer setup and would have been the fundamental reason for most of your subwoofer issues.
No amount of room optimization, correction or equalization can ameliorate a -3dB subwoofers shortcomings when positioned in a rooms null and still allow for their full portrayal of the recorded performance, superior system integration regardless of the media used.
Reading your dissatisfied subwoofer descriptions I’m almost certain your subwoofer issues could have been easily remedied. Generally the bass mode locations can be along boundary walls which may not have met the household aesthetic.
During your time with the Velodyne DD-18 Plus and the Plus’ User's Manual did you happen to come across, 'Optimizing for Subwoofer Placement Crawl' on page25?
For what ever reason this is explanation comes well after much of the setup process’s and is easily overlooked. A slightly different version appeared in the DD User Manual on page 22.
This is actually the first step for any -3db subwoofer setup and would have been the fundamental reason for most of your subwoofer issues.
No amount of room optimization, correction or equalization can ameliorate a -3dB subwoofers shortcomings when positioned in a rooms null and still allow for their full portrayal of the recorded performance, superior system integration regardless of the media used.
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