Some days, I want to throw out my stereo

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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Last Saturday was such as day. For all the countless hours that my system has pleased me, entertained me, and even thrilled me, it is almost a given that when I hear big scale live music, I come home and want to burn my system down. Of course, any sane person knows it is completely unrealistic to think that a home stereo can reproduce the real thing with the verisimilitude of the real thing. I readily accept that under the best possible circumstances, the best that we can hope for is a reasonable facsimile. But there are times, and in my case too frequently since I attend a lot of symphonic performances, when you just want to throw up on your system. At times like that, your mind turns to the dark side and reminds you about all the wasted hours you have spent evaluating even minor things such as the plating material on AC receptacles, various cables, and many other things of relatively minor importance. Sure, everything matters. Every audiophile worth his salt would agree to that. But there are also times that you realize that the degree to which these things matter are almost trivial when you look at the big picture. At those moments, one is starkly reminded that the sonic recreation of a real musical event is, for all practical purposes, impossible. Yup, that’s exactly what occurred last Saturday.

So much for the obvious. However, although the comparison of reproduced to real music is by definition, an insurmountable bar to clear (at least in the year 2015- all bets are off for 3015!), there is still much that can be learned by even occasional exposure to the real thing. With that in mind, I’d like to convey my recent experience at the Metropolitan Opera last Saturday when I saw an outstanding performance of Puccini’s Turandot.

To begin, the performance was superb. Turandot is one of Puccini’s most massive stagings and the Franco Zeffirelli production at the Met was spectacular. The set design was just exquisite.

Turandot stage.jpg

The singers were all superb (no surprise there as the Met does not hire anything less than the world’s best). However, one singer in particular just blew me away. There are two sopranos in the opera- those of the characters Turandot, and the slave girl Liu. The two most memorable performances I listen to at home are the 1959 Living Stereo LP version (Mohr and Layton engineers) where these are played by Birgit Nilsson and Renata Tebaldi respectively, and a 1973 London LP version where the female leads are played by Joan Sutherland and Monserrat Caballe. As phenomenal as these performances are, I was stunned by the performance of Liu played by Hibla Gerzmava, a 35 year old Russian soprano who, although well known in opera circles, is hardly a household word. Her aria at the end of act 1 “Signore, ascolta!” left me literally in tears, and I can assure you I was not the only one in the house who cried. It is this kind of beauty in the conveyance of human emotion that makes people truly love opera. As good as Tebaldi and Caballe were, at least in this aria, for me, they could not touch Gerzmava. Truly breathtaking.

Here she is in Donizetti’s Lucia di Lammamoor from 5 years ago if you want to catch a glimpse of her remarkable powers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykFYsOn5dI0

By the way, it really helps to have language translation screens at each individual seat since without them, unless you speak Italian, you have no idea what the hell anyone is saying. These were installed in the Met in 1995.

Turandot also contains arguably the most famous tenor aria in all of opera, "Nessun Dorma", an instantly recognizable piece of music that has lost its dark meaning by being repeatedly heard out of context. I should probably mention that the tenor, Marcelo Alvarez was very good, but then again, once you hear Jussi Björling (1959) or Pavarotti (1973), you will understand what great sounds like. Again, IMHO.

One thing that should be noted is that this is the Met! There is no sound amplification of the singers or orchestra. There is no sound reinforcement of any kind in the hall at all! In other words, this is the real deal, and very different than Broadway where every singer is mic’d. Metropolitan Opera Hall is a monster and holds 3800 people. La Scala, by comparison, seats 2800 and the Royal Opera House in Covent Garden, London seats 2200. Suffice it to say, as Sinatra said, “if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere”. But it’s even more imposing than that. Sometimes the singers are singing away from the audience! There is a part where Calaf, the lead tenor, sings to Princess Turandot who is on her throne at the back of the stage facing the audience. Therefore, Calaf sings facing her with his back to the audience and yet we can hear him clearly. Quite an accomplishment. As far as Turandot’s role, it is considered one of the most arduous in the operatic repertoire, as she has to sing in full-throated voice for most of the performance. Birgit Nillson and Joan Sutherland were well known to be able to belt it out (but yet with glorious finesse when called for). Our soprano on Saturday, Christine Goerke did an admirable job, but it is often said that singers like Nillson and Sutherland were true “once-in-a-lifetime” artists. I regret I never heard either of them live.

Let’s talk about sound levels a bit. I had my trusted SPL App running on my iPhone in my front sport coat breast pocket the entire time (mic facing up). I was able to look at it discretely anytime by holding my pocket open just a tiny bit. This didn’t bother anyone except my wife, who finally told me to stop doing that crap or I could walk home. You would think that after 42 years of marriage to an audiophile, she would know me by now. What can I say? I guess some people are just don’t know a good time when they see one!

The ambient level of the hall during intermission when there was only quiet chatter, was about 65-67 dB (all measurements are unweighted). When a few singers or less were accompanied by the orchestra in an average passage without much bass, the levels were about 80-82 dB. When the choir (at least 75 singers!) and multiple singers were accompanied by the full orchestra, levels would reach 85-87dB. And when it came time for balls to the wall crescendos, the meter peaked at anywhere from 90-93 dB. I did hit 95 dB but only once. As Floyd Toole said in an excellent interview located elsewhere on this forum, the perception of loudness is approximately double for a 10 dB increment in midrange and high frequencies, whereas it takes far less for a similar perception when listening to bass frequencies. I think there are some lessons there that are useful for home listening. (I always knew that 3dB correlated to a doubling of voltage and 6dB was a doubling of power, but I never heard anyone correlate dB level to perceived loudness until I watched the Toole interview.)

One of the most informative parts of the evening was listening to the orchestra from the superb vantage point of the first row of the Grand Tier, which is 2 levels above the orchestra, and the third of 6 levels in the hall. This location allows a very good perspective indeed for hearing the orchestra that one cannot achieve from listening anywhere on the ground floor orchestra level. The perspective I enjoyed is shown in the accompanying photos.

met seats.jpg

One can hear not only every instrument without obstruction, but the appreciation of the sound stage was also superb (see next photo below). Again, this is not readily accomplished from the orchestra floor. There, one is typically listening largely to indirect sound as well as direct sound that is often coming from a level somewhat higher than the orchestra seats. (This is hall dependent and also dependent on how far forward you are sitting). It is for this reason that some folks are adamant about sitting in the higher seating tiers of some hall such as Carnegie, Powell in St. Louis, Meyerson in Dallas and too many others to name. In other halls, this is less critical (such as Berlin and Boston), since great sound can be found in the orchestra seats in those halls. At Carnegie, many cognoscenti swear that the best sound is in the nose-bleed section, and would sooner choke than accept season tickets anywhere else!

A revelatory moment did indeed occur at one point that I really appreciated. In the third act, when the ice princess Turandot finally succumbs to love, her aria ends and there is a single measure that is played only by the bass drum and tympani. One can see the players as the two furthest to the right in my photo.

orchestra pit.jpg

When the bass drum is actually being played, it us turned from its mostly upright position to a moderately angled position. This allowed me to have a truly unimpeded line to my ear from the mallet wacking the drum. The same was true for the tympani, which of course maintains its position on the floor, but the drum heads were also in my direct view. This measure gave new meaning to bass transient response without overhang or alteration of any kind for me since for most symphonic performances, I typically sit in the orchestra and never get the sort of direct sight line to the surfaces of those instruments. Ah, yet another reason I wanted to throw out my system when I got home. Despite very good bass performance with my JL Gotham subs, I couldn’t touch the sound of what I heard in the hall that night. What a revelation! What a pleasure!

That about wraps it up. If this entry is worth anything, it might just be to remind all of us to go hear some live music! There really is no substitute.

Marty
 
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spiritofmusic

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That sounds like a LOT of fun.
Btw, if you really want to throw out your system, just let me know first - I'll hop on a plane, and get it all boxed up for you, take it off your hands, and won't even charge you for the privelege :cool:.
Just not a word to Bonzo please ;)!
 

Rodney Gold

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My hifi sounds better than live.. I go to live to watch more than listen..
 

bonzo75

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Hi Marty, nice write up...I recently saw Figaro at the Royal Opera House. My favorite opera so far has been a little known one, called the "Indian Queen" by Purcell, at the London Coliseum. It was in part helped by the fact that I had the best seats - there was a scheme where we could buy 20 quid random draw tickets, where on the last day they would allocate any of the returned tickets to us, with the caveat that the tickets would be worth at least the 20 we paid for them. Well, we luckily ended up getting the costliest seats, bang in the center of the stalls. It was phenomenal.

The sound of an opera is a bit different to that of a symphony orchestra. The bass and dynamics are softer, and the sound is more valve-like. I think planars with valves do best for operas and baroque, while they can miss something in full symphony dynamics.
 

marslo

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For me opera requires video contrary to classical music . I have some BR discs with operas which I watch and listen to in my home cinema system whilst symphonics are better in stereo setup , of course IMHO.
Nothing compares to live music but at home I have a choice of best orchestras, conductors and singers , it's not always the case of our local opera house.

BTW , Marty - I envy you ;)
 

bonzo75

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For me opera requires video contrary to classcial music . I have some BR discs with operas which I watch and listen to in my home cinema system whilst symphonics are better in stereo setup , of course IMHO.
Nothing compares to live music but at home I have a choice of best orchestras, conductors and singers , it's not always the case of our local opera house.

I actually heard an excellent Quad MCH system with a giant screen in the middle where we watched blu-rays and heard some brilliant music. Best Carmen I heard. Also the blu-rays of Mahler with Claudio Abbado make fantastic watching and listening
 

ack

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Marty, this was a great write-up and beautiful photos. Personally, I can't stand the darker sound at the orchestra level of Boston Symphony Hall, though strings from those locations are to die for. But when it comes to getting the full symphonic picture, I prefer the balconies - I was in row A, dead middle, of the first balcony just last week, at opening weekend; outstanding location. With respect to my system, frankly, it's been years since I had the same reaction of wanting to throw it out; that's changed the last couple of years.
 

RBFC

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Marty,

Wonderful writeup. It's obvious that you are a true music lover. I agree that no system (at least that I've heard) can duplicate the live experience. While it's been argued that the psycho-emotional component of attending a live event and the ensuing "crowd mentality" elevate the perception of the performance, I think we can agree that there are some distinct sonic attributes that cannot be matched by recordings & playback. As a veteran of over a hundred symphony performances, all the way back to George Szell leading the Cleveland Orchestra, I fully understand both your passion for the live event and your "frustration" with high-end playback. I remember sitting about 15 feet from Itzhak Perlman and Samuel Sanders at Severance Hall, where I could literally put my feet on the stage when they played a duo recital. Even with small scale, the dynamic swoops came with such clarity!

If you have not yet delved, I would sincerely recommend that you try opera on Blu-ray with multichannel sound. Still not live, but the visual portion adds to the experience immensely.

Thank you for sharing.

Lee
 

Ronm1

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That about wraps it up. If this entry is worth anything, it might just be to remind all of us to go hear some live music! There really is no substitute.

Marty
Many years ago I gave up attempting to reproduce these wonders at home. 'Twas just an exercise in frustration and a money pit of abyss proportions for me and I suspect most of us. Cut back on speaker size to concentrate on what I could do well. If and when A fix is needed, off to the local symphony we go.
 

Ron Resnick

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Thank you for a very interesting and colorful report. Your system may not deceive you into thinking you are listening to live music, but from what I hear from bonzo75 your system is among the very best!
 

amirm

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What a great write-up Marty. Thanks for taking the time to write with that witty style. Great joy in reading it first thing in the morning.
 

bonzo75

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Many years ago I gave up attempting to reproduce these wonders at home. 'Twas just an exercise in frustration and a money pit of abyss proportions for me and I suspect most of us. Cut back on speaker size to concentrate on what I could do well. If and when A fix is needed, off to the local symphony we go.

Which is why I consider these as three different hobbies - listening to music, auditioning systems, and building your own system. Only some overlaps between the three.
 

microstrip

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Great post about a great life performance Marty. But I think you forgot the smile in the tittle thread!

IMHO the purpose of our systems is not to replace the Metropolitan Opera. ;) And yes, these Decca opera recordings from late 50's early 60's, when these great singers were at their peak are unsurpassable.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Marty - great write up. I had been a Met Subscriber for many years, and I saw many outstanding performances, including the spectacular Zefferelli Turandot several times with great casts, Domingo for example. The regular drive to NYC from Philly became too much for us, though. I still attend many, many local concerts, but not our local minor league opera productions.

I do love opera on Blu-Ray, as well as concerts and ballet. I do not tire of watching as well as listening. But, most of my home listening is sans video to hi rez SACD plus BD-A these days.

Like you, I was resigned to what my stereo could do and how short it fell of the live experience for many decades. It did get better over the years via successive upgrades. But, it still fell short. I could get enjoyably engrossed in the music with deep concentration, but it was at best noticeably far from the live experience.

Then, 7 years ago there came the biggest breakthrough of my life toward better home audio that was a more realistic portrayal of live concert sound. Three things made the difference: discretely recorded multichannel audio, DSP room EQ and higher than CD playback resolution. I did them all at once in the process of converting my stereo to a combined Mch A/V HT including stereo.

The combined result is not perfect, but the gap vs. live performance is no longer something that I think about much at all. I quickly realized that something important had been missing from stereo all along by its very nature. Mch audio was a significant step in the right direction. Room EQ provided an obviously more natural sounding tonality, especially in smooth, extended deep bass that was free from noticeable ringing, hangover, etc. And, hi rez digital audio was a definite refinement over CD sound. So, I can listen to music, watch videos or TV all on my integrated home entertainment system, which applies much hi end audio thinking and equipment to the task of delivering really satisfying sound, IMHO. I love it, not that I do not love live music even more.

It is often difficult to find a decent Mch system for audition of music. Dealers are generally clueless about it, though, as they are about a lot of things. They may have their video-oriented HT setups separated by a Chinese Wall from their high end stereo rooms. They also tend to be uninterested in DSP EQ.

But, if any of this interests you (or anyone else), I would be happy to demo it to you here in Philly. I have a good friend nearby of some prominence in audio with an excellent system who has been bitten by the same bug. It might be possible to hear both setups. PM me and we can discuss it further. If you know and love the sound of live music, to me and a number of my concert-going friends, these technologies I have described are the ticket to a satisfyingly closer approach in the home.
 

Hi-FiGuy

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Which is why I consider these as three different hobbies - 1.listening to music, 2.auditioning systems, 3.and building your own system. Only some overlaps between the three.
Which is why some times you just need to do the first part and not stress out on the other two. Sometimes the other two steal the joy out of the moment.

Great write up Marty, you banged a nail pretty hard there.

I am sure you are being treated terrible at Steve's house and can't wait to get out of there!

Good read!
 

marslo

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I actually heard an excellent Quad MCH system with a giant screen in the middle where we watched blu-rays and heard some brilliant music. Best Carmen I heard. Also the blu-rays of Mahler with Claudio Abbado make fantastic watching and listening

May I recommend Opus Arte for fine BR releases :
http://www.opusarte.com/category/blu-ray
 

bonzo75

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Which is why some times you just need to do the first part and not stress out on the other two. Sometimes the other two steal the joy out of the moment.

!

No. They are just different hobbies. I average a live concert a week, and if I could, I would average an audition and a tweak a week - latter two require more time and money. But all three give me different pleasure. 2 and 3 require a collector's mindset and scratch that itch, first is pure music.
 

andromedaaudio

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I agree with marty beautiful pics by the way , although a stereo can do things the real event cant , it aint the same expirience both can be satisfying imo , the last time i wanted to through out my stereo it got quite expensive on the speakerpart:D

kraan by andromeda61, on Flickr
 

Al M.

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Great write-up, Marty.

Last Saturday was such as day. For all the countless hours that my system has pleased me, entertained me, and even thrilled me, it is almost a given that when I hear big scale live music, I come home and want to burn my system down. Of course, any sane person knows it is completely unrealistic to think that a home stereo can reproduce the real thing with the verisimilitude of the real thing. I readily accept that under the best possible circumstances, the best that we can hope for is a reasonable facsimile. But there are times, and in my case too frequently since I attend a lot of symphonic performances, when you just want to throw up on your system. At times like that, your mind turns to the dark side and reminds you about all the wasted hours you have spent evaluating even minor things such as the plating material on AC receptacles, various cables, and many other things of relatively minor importance. Sure, everything matters. Every audiophile worth his salt would agree to that. But there are also times that you realize that the degree to which these things matter are almost trivial when you look at the big picture. At those moments, one is starkly reminded that the sonic recreation of a real musical event is, for all practical purposes, impossible.

I know. For me a stereo is about the dynamics, vividness, excitement and presence, the feeling that the music is just as alive as it is live.

It is also about information, the ease with which I can unravel the diverse musical strands developing simultaneously; that ease should come close to what I hear in the concert hall. I have actually made progress towards the latter goal with my system to an unexpected extent in the last few years.

The sound itself of live music? That is indeed the least possible to replicate at home. I was marveling just how much more timbral resolution than in my own system I have heard from solo violin on two other vinyl-based systems recently, systems that cost far more than mine. Would I want that increased resolution? You bet. But even those vinyl-based systems pale in comparison to the real thing, to an actual solo violin playing. So would it really be worth it to chase for the improvement? Question left open.

Yet I also have to say that on some occasions I am thrilled with the actual similarity to live sound from my system, like on some woodwind or brass recordings. But the whole palette of timbres of live music? Forget it.

***

While I was writing this, I became glad that your post reminded me of what a system really should be about, at least for me. Thanks for that, Marty!
 

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