Something to Lose Sleep Over?

J.R. Boisclair

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Jun 30, 2020
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Please, don't lose sleep over it!

If you have a conical or even an elliptical stylii, you can completely ignore it.

I'm working on a way for everyone to be able to measure zenith error without a very high end microscope, but I definitely NEED the high end microscope to confirm any approach that doesn't involve direct observation works as it should. Any solution for this cannot be a multivariate approach as you see with some testing software as multivariate data causes its own problems and conflicting data.

Wish me luck and stay tuned...
 
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miniguy

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Dec 18, 2013
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Please, don't lose sleep over it!

If you have a conical or even an elliptical stylii, you can completely ignore it.

I'm working on a way for everyone to be able to measure zenith error without a very high end microscope, but I definitely NEED the high end microscope to confirm any approach that doesn't involve direct observation works as it should. Any solution for this cannot be a multivariate approach as you see with some testing software as multivariate data causes its own problems and conflicting data.

Wish me luck and stay tuned...
It would be interesting to know, among the most popular cartridge makers, what the typical mounting tolerance is for the zenith angle of advanced stylus shapes.
 
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J.R. Boisclair

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Jun 30, 2020
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What was Michael Fremers prior method/criteria for setting correct zenith angle?
There wasn’t one at all because prior to now there was no reliable way to measure it and, even if you could, there wasn’t anything like the WallyZenith to use to compensate for any error. We all had to trust that the contact edges of the stylus were mounted perfectly perpendicular to the cantilever.

With at least one major stylus/cantilever assembly manufacturer publicly advertising a +|-5 degree zenith error tolerance on even their most expensive models it seems crazy that we never paid attention to it, doesn’t it?

Of course, before fine line contact styli became available it didn’t matter much anyway.
 
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RickS

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May 23, 2018
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So basically you would just align the cantilever to a zenith angle line on a protractor, fine tune VTA/SRA and hope for the best.

I wonder about that because I had a cartridge with a Shibata profile stylus that always tracked just a little more noisily no matter what. Picked up ticks and sometimes more vinyl tracing noises than was ideal.

Later I replaced that cartridge with a Koetsu, and did the same exact setup procedure as before, and it basically disappears when playing records. The noise floor lowered significantly and ticks and pops were all but eliminated.
 
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J.R. Boisclair

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Jun 30, 2020
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So basically you would just align the cantilever to a zenith angle line on a protractor, fine tune VTA/SRA and hope for the best.

I wonder about that because I had a cartridge with a Shibata profile stylus that always tracked just a little more noisily no matter what. Picked up ticks and sometimes more vinyl tracing noises than was ideal.

Later I replaced that cartridge with a Koetsu, and did the same exact setup procedure as before, and it basically disappears when playing records. The noise floor lowered significantly and ticks and pops were all but eliminated.
More accurately: You would align the cantilever to be tangential to the groove at the null points and pray for the best on zenith error.

I have reason to believe that most surface noise picked up by one cartridge vs another may be due to a poorly mounted stylus on its azimuth axis. The stylus itself has nothing directly to do with maximizing stereo separation on the azimuth axis (that is the job of the coil alignment) but if it is sitting wonky in the groove may pick up noise from the very top of the groove in one channel and very bottom of the groove in the other. I
 
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Lagonda

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What was Michael Fremers prior method/criteria for setting correct zenith angle?
Maybe the ignorance is bliss method ? ;)
 
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Solypsa

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Jun 7, 2017
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www.solypsa.com
Dave Slagle has been writing about his efforts on zenith alignment hopefully he will chime in here.

For me the reality is whether using lab equipment or ears it still amounts to shifting the cart around its zenith axis a little at a time till it ends up sounding its best :)

Sure it would be nice to correlate the results to either electrical output, visual alignment or both...
 

J.R. Boisclair

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Jun 30, 2020
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It would be interesting to test if listeners could hear the results of some of these alignment methods over system videos with the cartridge set up being the only variable.
It's on my long list of things to do. I have an azimuth related blog article and video coming soon so that is where my head is now.
 
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J.R. Boisclair

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2020
182
321
135
Dave Slagle has been writing about his efforts on zenith alignment hopefully he will chime in here.

For me the reality is whether using lab equipment or ears it still amounts to shifting the cart around its zenith axis a little at a time till it ends up sounding its best :)

Sure it would be nice to correlate the results to either electrical output, visual alignment or both...
Best evaluation is done at 33rpm, not 45, and using innermost track with plenty of high frequency content and complex soundstage. Classical symphonic is excellent for this subjective test.

If you are going to do it by ear, make SURE that headshell is dead level on both azimuth and rake axes or you will be changing azimuth and rake as well. This is why I like making the custom shims. I can revolve the cartridge on a perfectly level headshell without changing the azimuth and rake. You can then use anything like the WallyZenith to measure that angle to within about 0.5 degree accuracy (I think that is the limit of a trained setup eye on a mirrored and etched surface)
 
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