Soulution 700 vs darTZeel NHB-458

Roysen

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I am going to buy new amps for my upcoming purchase of Rockport Altair or Rockport Arrakis. My first choice at the moment would be Soulution 700 based on an audition with the Altair and the 700s. The sound had all of the soundstage, resolution, tonal color, richness and midband energy the Rockports are famous for in addition to a transient attack and dynamics which i attribute to the bandwith of the 700. Bass was also deep, powerful and extended.

I am however very curious about the darTZeel NHB-458. What do they bring to the table compared to the Soulution 700? I understand that not many have auditioned both these amps in the same system, but quite a few should know a bit about the Soulution house sound and the darTZeel house sound.
 

LL21

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I will be watching this thread with great interest. I have briefly heard the Soulution 5 series amps with S5...promising. Based on my experience with S5 on a few different occasions, I could believe that they would not be dissimilar from an Altair. The S5 is closer to an Altair in character of sound than a Q series.

I suppose the question is partly a technical one...how difficult is the Altair load? I remember reading some felt the 108 struggled a bit with the Sasha due to its wicked impedance and phase challenges in the bass. I have read somewhere the 458 is a far superior amp, but what I do not know is whether the 458 also puts its best foot forward with higher impedance loads. A consideration when you are out for hearing the best that these components can do towards a system.
 

dallasjustice

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I've owned both. Not the amps you are asking about so I don't know if I could help. I think I would prefer the Dartzeel. I don't think speaker impedance matching is that important with either of these. If anything the Soulution wouldn't be up to a real low impedance test. I think the 700 is a bridge design. I know the YG can be a tough load. I've heard the 700 isn't very comfortable with the YG because it's bridged. In fact, you might be better off with the 710. The solution is like an audio X-ray machine. It can sound great in the right combo. Dartzeel is better IMO. My local dealer will have the 458 in a few months. We will hear it then.
 

Roysen

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An advantage of the Soulution is that it can be used in
Bi-amp mode and I would only need one pair for the Arrakis.
 

LL21

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An advantage of the Soulution is that it can be used in
Bi-amp mode and I would only need one pair for the Arrakis.

Andy Payor is incredibly helpful, open and forthright...and by all accounts, a serious technician, perfectionist and artisan. He could probably be very helpful here if you ask him.
 

Roysen

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That is probably right, but one of the disadvantages of the Rockport customer service is that they don't provide an e-Mail address on their website. I am not prepared to stay up during the night to call him. I used to have his personal e-Mail address but I have lost it.
 

LL21

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That is probably right, but one of the disadvantages of the Rockport customer service is that they don't provide an e-Mail address on their website. I am not prepared to stay up during the night to call him. I used to have his personal e-Mail address but I have lost it.

I sent you the last email I had for them.
 

Peter Breuninger

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I would add D'Agostinos and AudioNet Max to the amp short list.
 

Audiocrack

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That is probably right, but one of the disadvantages of the Rockport customer service is that they don't provide an e-Mail address on their website. I am not prepared to stay up during the night to call him. I used to have his personal e-Mail address but I have lost it.

Somewhat besides this thread but if I remember correctly Roy you were seriously considering the Tidal La Assoluta as maybe your prime target for a new top of the line speaker. Have you abandonned this idea and decided to go for any of the two mentioned Rockport speakers? And how are you doing with the the Magico Q7 speakers?
 

LL21

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Somewhat besides this thread but if I remember correctly Roy you were seriously considering the Tidal La Assoluta as maybe your prime target for a new top of the line speaker. Have you abandonned this idea and decided to go for any of the two mentioned Rockport speakers? And how are you doing with the the Magico Q7 speakers?

Hey Audiocrack...hope the Trinity digital is continuing to work its magic. I believe Roy's Q7 has moved on to new pastures.
 

Mike Lavigne

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I am going to buy new amps for my upcoming purchase of Rockport Altair or Rockport Arrakis. My first choice at the moment would be Soulution 700 based on an audition with the Altair and the 700s. The sound had all of the soundstage, resolution, tonal color, richness and midband energy the Rockports are famous for in addition to a transient attack and dynamics which i attribute to the bandwith of the 700. Bass was also deep, powerful and extended.

I am however very curious about the darTZeel NHB-458. What do they bring to the table compared to the Soulution 700? I understand that not many have auditioned both these amps in the same system, but quite a few should know a bit about the Soulution house sound and the darTZeel house sound.

I've only heard Soulution 710 at shows, and never done any direct comparisons to darTZeel. based on those experiences and my ownership of the dart 458's it's likely not a surprise that I prefer the 458's.....or even the 108's (on the appropriate speaker) for that matter....to the exemplary Soulution's. to my ears the darts are more organic and less processed sounding. I'm only referring to degrees here and not implying that the Soulution is not a wonderful amp. the dart is simply more wonderful to my ears.

the 458's will do all the 'big mega amp' stuff on the checklist as far as power, speed and effortlessness. but the 458's never sound 'solid state' or 'like tubes'. they maintain a natural 'rightness' that other big amps cannot quite achieve to the same degree. you are never aware of the circuit, just music.

based on your list of attributes desired hard to imagine a better amp than the 458's. gotta be great with any of Andy's speakers.

one person who has had both the Soulution 710 and the darTZeel 458's in their system is Michael Fremer. He did end up purchasing the 458's. here is a link to his 458 review where he mentions both.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dartzeel-nhb-458-monoblock-amplifier

how different is the Soulution 710 to the 700? I have no idea.
 
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Audiocrack

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Hey Audiocrack...hope the Trinity digital is continuing to work its magic. I believe Roy's Q7 has moved on to new pastures.

Thanks Lloyd, and yes the Trinity combo is still marvelous although there are appareny still audiophiles who cannot or are not willing to believe that it is a mighty digital combo indeed.
 

jazdoc

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Roysen,

I spent significant time listening to a system with the DartZeel 458's today and they are truly magnificent. I suspect you can't go wrong with either and this will come down to taste and system matching.
 

asiufy

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I've listened the Soulution monos and my own darTZeel 108, on Q7s, and there's no comparison, the 108 trounced the Soulutions. If you like your bass drums to sound like cardboard, go for the Soulution. All that negative feedback doesn't do it any good, it's my impression.

As Mike Lavigne put it, the darTZeels are just way more organic, while the Soulutions present a big, but empty sound. No meat on the bones.

Given the choice, I'd pick the 108. Since you can go for the 458s, there's little reason to go for the Soulutions.

Now, the Soulution 7-series preamp (720 I think?) is actually quite good, fast and transparent, without robbing the life out of music.


alexandre
 

Roysen

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I've listened the Soulution monos and my own darTZeel 108, on Q7s, and there's no comparison, the 108 trounced the Soulutions. If you like your bass drums to sound like cardboard, go for the Soulution. All that negative feedback doesn't do it any good, it's my impression.

As Mike Lavigne put it, the darTZeels are just way more organic, while the Soulutions present a big, but empty sound. No meat on the bones.

Given the choice, I'd pick the 108. Since you can go for the 458s, there's little reason to go for the Soulutions.

Now, the Soulution 7-series preamp (720 I think?) is actually quite good, fast and transparent, without robbing the life out of music.


alexandre

This is something I can't agree to. I find both the Soulution 700 and 501 better than the darTZeel NHB-108. However the NHB-458 is a totally different beast.

If the Soulution bass sounded like cardboard there must have been some mismatch in the system.

I am most interested in a really fast amp with wide bandwidth for the Arrakis/Altair like Soulution, Spectral, Goldmund and Atma-Sphere. I am however also interested in amps that is normally matched with Rockport like Gryphon and VTL. Then there are the darTZeel and FM Acoustics amps which interest me in more general terms based on sound quality.
 
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Brian Walsh

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That is probably right, but one of the disadvantages of the Rockport customer service is that they don't provide an e-Mail address on their website. I am not prepared to stay up during the night to call him. I used to have his personal e-Mail address but I have lost it.

Hi, I just sent you Andy's email address via private message.
 

Roysen

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Somewhat besides this thread but if I remember correctly Roy you were seriously considering the Tidal La Assoluta as maybe your prime target for a new top of the line speaker. Have you abandonned this idea and decided to go for any of the two mentioned Rockport speakers? And how are you doing with the the Magico Q7 speakers?

In the past I was working on three different systems based on Magico Q7, Tidal Audio La Assoluta and Rockport Technologies Arrakis 2. Then my financial situation changed when I got diagnosed with cancer and had to stop working. Now my plans are scaled down to one system. The Arrakis was always my first choice but I got an offer I could not refuse on the Magico Q7 when I still had the old plans. However my room is leaking bass heavily, so I need to place the Q7 way out in the room corners to get good bass. The early reflections in this positions destroys imaging and sine the room is our living room we are not prepared to do the acoustical treatment to correct this. So the Q7 are sold. What I need is a speaker with an active crossover for the bass section in order to adjust the bass output. I could have added a pair of subwoofers to the Magico Q7 but I prefer the Rockport sound.
 

Roysen

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I've only heard Soulution 710 at shows, and never done any direct comparisons to darTZeel. based on those experiences and my ownership of the dart 458's it's likely not a surprise that I prefer the 458's.....or even the 108's (on the appropriate speaker) for that matter....to the exemplary Soulution's. to my ears the darts are more organic and less processed sounding. I'm only referring to degrees here and not implying that the Soulution is not a wonderful amp. the dart is simply more wonderful to my ears.

the 458's will do all the 'big mega amp' stuff on the checklist as far as power, speed and effortlessness. but the 458's never sound 'solid state' or 'like tubes'. they maintain a natural 'rightness' that other big amps cannot quite achieve to the same degree. you are never aware of the circuit, just music.

based on your list of attributes desired hard to imagine a better amp than the 458's. gotta be great with any of Andy's speakers.

one person who has had both the Soulution 710 and the darTZeel 458's in their system is Michael Fremer. He did end up purchasing the 458's. here is a link to his 458 review where he mentions both.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dartzeel-nhb-458-monoblock-amplifier

how different is the Soulution 710 to the 700? I have no idea.

Thanks, Mike. Your opinions are highly valued as always. I have heard the NHB-458 twice. Both times they were matched to Magico Q5. Since the Rockports sound quite different I am not sure how valuable those experiances are. What I can say is that the sound was mighty impressive on both occations.
 

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