Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

manisandher

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2011
219
193
350
www.the2ndtier.com
I'll be trying a digital 4-way crossover (4-way multi-amping with an extra pair of bass drivers) and digital room correction with my Animas in the next few weeks. I'm aiming to high-pass the Anima bass horn at around 70Hz, so it'll become a mid-bass horn effectively - the extra bass drivers will handle things below 70Hz and will be digitally corrected to be flat down to 20Hz. The extra bass drivers will be driven hard and might be distorting somewhat (who cares?), but the Anima's from the mid-bass up should be nice and clean, as they won't be driven at all hard.

And, I find the thought of having the amps connected directly to the drivers with no passive crossovers in the path very compelling. I'm hoping for a sharp uptake in dynamics (not that they're currently lacking).

@bonzo75 , this is all set up now:

Anima - fully active setup.jpg

Why are the Marvels (sans high horns) there too? They're acting purely as subs! Crazy, I know.

The improvement in sound over stock is better than I could ever have imagined. If you feel like a little train trip, it'd be more than worth your while, I can assure you :).

Mani.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
5,939
2,210
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Switzerland
@bonzo75 , this is all set up now:

View attachment 80809

Why are the Marvels (sans high horns) there too? They're acting purely as subs! Crazy, I know.

The improvement in sound over stock is better than I could ever have imagined. If you feel like a little train trip, it'd be more than worth your while, I can assure you :).

Mani.
what amps are you using? I think the Marvel uses a TQWT for the back loading of the mid-bass driver... I can attest that this works very well for bass as I have taht kind of loading on two of my speakers (Odeon La Boheme and Supravox Alizee).
 

manisandher

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2011
219
193
350
www.the2ndtier.com
what amps are you using?

Running a total of 8 amps, I ruled out using any valve or SS class A amps. Instead, I opted for Neurochrome 286 modules. These are fully balanced, class AB amps, with truly exemplorary performance specs. I got a local amp builder to build a bunch of mono amps for me with beefy linear power supplies and nice cases. These are seriously good-sounding amps for the price.

I think the Marvel uses a TQWT for the back loading of the mid-bass driver...

Yes, I think that's right. Having the Marvels sitting right in the corners, with a bit of DSP, I have them running flat from 20-70 Hz, after which the Anima's bass horn kicks in.

Edit: Oh, and the drivers are all digitally time-aligned - makes a big difference.

Still a bit of tuning to do, but overall, it's all sounding very nice. Might even do a video for Ked ;).

Mani.
 
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Phantom-Audio

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2017
48
45
105
Jakarta
www.phantom-audio.com
2 Field Coils,

Line Magnetic Based On Western Electric

Classic Audio Loudspeakers using very Beryllium Horn Drivers
 

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Uwiik

Well-Known Member
Mar 3, 2021
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I did offer for him to try our Field Coils Classic Audio Loudspeakers @ 16ohms 103db......but no response last 3 weeks. I'm about 20 mins away from him.

The classic Audio is usually paired with OTL by Atma-Sphere in the Demo room.
My sincere apology, I was (actually still) caught up in family emergency and wasn’t able to do much with audio or any of my other hobbies, I even neglected my business for a while. My apology for my disappearance to anyone involved in making this long and wonderful thread. On the week of my last post, my dad’s kidney went to a total failure. He had to be admitted to ICU and undergoing 3 x week @5 hrs hemodialysis, even so his condition continued to deteriorate. I had to jump in completely to help my parents overcome the legal and financial hurdles for my dad’s kidney transplant. Although my dad is OK now, he went through 3 cardiac arrests during the hurdle. It was a very difficult months for us. Now after my dad fully recovered, my mom is suspected with leukemia and we are waiting for biopsy result. Really not a good year for me, so I guess for the time being until everything settled I won’t be too active in searching for THE speaker for my Ongaku.

I did however, had a chance to audition my Ongaku with WVL Berlin just three days ago. After months of hiatus, my regular favorite dealer contacted me and told me that now they are officially carrying Kondo, they want to borrow my Kondo and offered to do everything (dismantling and transporting my gear) to their showroom which I gladly accepted because I just do not have the energy left to do anything audio related at the moment. They hooked up my Ongaku + G70 to their WVL Berlin to an astonishing result, I was dumbfounded and floored… Never thought that a low watt tube amp can give that much transparency, speed, precision and staging. My feet just can’t stop rocking… Any song we put through the system, the system played it as if it was all a live concert. If I close my eyes, I would’ve believed that I am in the middle of a live concert. It was completely surreal, there was ZERO trace of horny-ness and absolutely Zero tubey sound. There was a single MAJOR problem though, obviously 27 Watts from Ongaku is borderline lacking to drive the massive WVL Berlin, so at high volume and certain notes the sound can sound very strained/shouty/bright/ear bleeding, we tried several tweaks including buying a pair of RCA 211 to tame the strain/brightness to no result. Coincidentally the dealer have a Kondo Overture on display (32 Watts), after some initial hesitation I finally managed to convince them to try to bi-amp the big WVL using Ongaku for the mid-high and Overture for the low. I didn’t expect much, neither was the dealer. Surprisingly, the bi amping effort resulted in complete elimination of straining/brightness/shouty-ness. Everything became much more at ease, not straining, flowing, relaxed while still maintaining aggressive speed, rhythm and precision, Rare Earth’s “Get Ready” 23 minutes track is full of surprise, never messy, always composed and very precise To the very end of the song. I found the perfect sound for me but it requires additional purchase of Kondo Overture for bi amping along with the additional cables….
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
2,254
2,359
515
My sincere apology, I was (actually still) caught up in family emergency and wasn’t able to do much with audio or any of my other hobbies, I even neglected my business for a while. My apology for my disappearance to anyone involved in making this long and wonderful thread. On the week of my last post, my dad’s kidney went to a total failure. He had to be admitted to ICU and undergoing 3 x week @5 hrs hemodialysis, even so his condition continued to deteriorate. I had to jump in completely to help my parents overcome the legal and financial hurdles for my dad’s kidney transplant. Although my dad is OK now, he went through 3 cardiac arrests during the hurdle. It was a very difficult months for us. Now after my dad fully recovered, my mom is suspected with leukemia and we are waiting for biopsy result. Really not a good year for me, so I guess for the time being until everything settled I won’t be too active in searching for THE speaker for my Ongaku.

I did however, had a chance to audition my Ongaku with WVL Berlin just three days ago. After months of hiatus, my regular favorite dealer contacted me and told me that now they are officially carrying Kondo, they want to borrow my Kondo and offered to do everything (dismantling and transporting my gear) to their showroom which I gladly accepted because I just do not have the energy left to do anything audio related at the moment. They hooked up my Ongaku + G70 to their WVL Berlin to an astonishing result, I was dumbfounded and floored… Never thought that a low watt tube amp can give that much transparency, speed, precision and staging. My feet just can’t stop rocking… Any song we put through the system, the system played it as if it was all a live concert. If I close my eyes, I would’ve believed that I am in the middle of a live concert. It was completely surreal, there was ZERO trace of horny-ness and absolutely Zero tubey sound. There was a single MAJOR problem though, obviously 27 Watts from Ongaku is borderline lacking to drive the massive WVL Berlin, so at high volume and certain notes the sound can sound very strained/shouty/bright/ear bleeding, we tried several tweaks including buying a pair of RCA 211 to tame the strain/brightness to no result. Coincidentally the dealer have a Kondo Overture on display (32 Watts), after some initial hesitation I finally managed to convince them to try to bi-amp the big WVL using Ongaku for the mid-high and Overture for the low. I didn’t expect much, neither was the dealer. Surprisingly, the bi amping effort resulted in complete elimination of straining/brightness/shouty-ness. Everything became much more at ease, not straining, flowing, relaxed while still maintaining aggressive speed, rhythm and precision, Rare Earth’s “Get Ready” 23 minutes track is full of surprise, never messy, always composed and very precise To the very end of the song. I found the perfect sound for me but it requires additional purchase of Kondo Overture for bi amping along with the additional cables….
Sorry to hear about your parents. Hope everything gets better. At times like this, music is there to soothe your troubles. Forget about the gear and I wish you and your parents all the best.
 

Addicted to hifi

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Sep 8, 2020
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@bonzo75 , this is all set up now:

View attachment 80809

Why are the Marvels (sans high horns) there too? They're acting purely as subs! Crazy, I know.

The improvement in sound over stock is better than I could ever have imagined. If you feel like a little train trip, it'd be more than worth your while, I can assure you :).

Mani.
These speakers look incredible,would love to hear them.
 

Uwiik

Well-Known Member
Mar 3, 2021
296
191
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Sorry to hear about your parents. Hope everything gets better. At times like this, music is there to soothe your troubles. Forget about the gear and I wish you and your parents all the best.
Thanks a lot! My parents are staying with me for the time being, my dad absolutely love the Accuphase system, now I have a song that will always remind me of my dad.
 

Bobvin

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Jun 7, 2014
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www.purewatersystems.com
“… now I have a song that will always remind me of my dad.”
A precious artifact of your recent struggles. A blessing.

Best wishes to you and your parents.
 
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DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
650
593
255
Germany
Cessaro Wagner works pretty well with Kondo Amps.
Played the Kondo magic very well, beautiful voice reproduction and timbres paired with fast clean bass.
 
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Uwiik

Well-Known Member
Mar 3, 2021
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Given your predilections OP , I consider this to be a decent call
Interesting and very affordable compared to the alternative. No multiple woofers on the Cessaro concerned me a bit though, hard to forget and let go of the awesomely definitive bass after listening to the WVL Berlin with all the 6 big open baffle woofers, it’s live concert nice while maintaining extreme sound quality, even the vocal was very open, accurate, emotional, pinpoint focused and positioned extremely well… quite unbelievable to be honest, might be the best I ever heard so far. I might have found my pick, it’s going to require a significant investment exceeding Euro 100K with the extra Kondo Overture, Siltech Double/Triple Crown Speaker and RCA cables to complete the bi amplification. I am now just procrastinating to wait and see what’s next with my parents.
 
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DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
650
593
255
Germany
Given your predilections OP , I consider this to be a decent call
If his room was smaller, I would have recommended the Living Voice OBX RW. I think she doesn't do enough bass in the big room, she plays great with Kondo amps. IMG20210309141000.jpg
 

DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
650
593
255
Germany
Very nice. Are they super tweeters on top?
No.Audio animator is a Acoustic thing...voodoo?i don't know.;)
Sitting no more than 10 feet away will give you enough bass. they give you goose bumps, just listen to them at the dealer.
 

Uwiik

Well-Known Member
Mar 3, 2021
296
191
45
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While waiting for my ma’s result, I couldn’t stop but thinking about the speakers. Although my most loyal dealer is going to give deep discount of the WVL Berlin, after extra amp and cables required to complete the bi amplification it will still sum up in excess of EUR 100K, that much money will also get me Avantgarde Trio Luxury 26 with pair of Basshorn, in fact after discount the AA Trio Luxury with pair of Basshorn will actually cost less and simpler than bi amping the big WVL and everybody says Avantgarde plays nice with Kondo….… Problem is, I never ever heard a Trio Luxury 26 and there is ZERO chance I can audition it in the country. An acquittance who owns three sets of the older AA horns including the old Trio happened to be present when I auditioned the Kondo bi amplified WVL Berlin and he said there was no comparison, the WVL is night and day better than his old Trio. However, I also heard that Trio Luxury 26 is WAY better than the old Trio, there is no comparison or so they say……Not easy…
 

Solypsa

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2017
885
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Seattle
www.solypsa.com
what amp(s) does your dealer normally like to use with their WVL Berlin?
 

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